Chrsyler heads XXX714 casting numbers

[Bruceynz]

Hi Everyone,

Ok after trying to work out what to do and looking at going down the 360 route and shipping was expensive to NZ I have gone back to plan "A" which was to fit some XXX302 casting heads onto my 1983 318, I have been unable to find any XXX302 heads but have been offered some XXX714 heads, will these bolt directly onto my 318 and oil the rocker gear all ok, I have done it with 302 heads about 10 years ago and it worked fine, just never heard of 714 heads before.

I can tell you that XXX302 heads onto a 1980 318 smog engine, edelbrock 2177 cam, edelbrock intake and holley carb really wake up a smogger!!!! Hoping I can do the same with the XXX714 heads if they are the same as XXX302 heads

Thanks
Bruce

 

[greymouser7]

I don't know anything about head numbers other than X, J, 302, 308, big block 915 & 346

try the small block thread portion of the Forabodiesonly.com/mopar forum, they WILL have an answer for you.

 

[aspen77rt]

The only casting with those last three numbers are 53005714. '88-'91 318 with rollers tablets.

See www.mymopar.com

 

[aspen77rt]

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=225389

However check that they are not magnums heads.

I have the 625 cfm Street Demon on the Mirada. Great throttle response.

There are some good if not better cam grinds than the edelbrock, staying in the range of what you might be looking for.

Comp Cams
CL20-208-2
CL20-220-3

Lunati
10200700LK

 

[Bruceynz]

This is my cam spec I have here, also seems the XXX714 is just the later version of the XXX302 casting

Camshaft Kit Part Number	Application	Power Range	Idle Quality/special requirements	Valve Lift Int/Exh	Duration Adv. Int/Exh in degrees	Duration @.050 Int/Exh in degrees	Lobe Centerline
CK3004-1	SB Chrysler 273 318 340 360 with hydraulic flat tappets	idle-4400 rpm	Good torque, good pulling, offroad and highway mileage. Smooth idle	420/443	278/278	204/214	112

 

[Bruceynz]

Just noticed that the Duration is 278/278 but at 50 thou its 204/214 how can it be 278/278? I only ever look at the 50 thou duration :sad1:

 

[Bruceynz]

Just went to the garage and had a look, here are the specs off the box, that looks better!!

 

[Bruceynz]

The idea of this cam was not to have the biggest HP monster on the block but to get a 318 to go what it should of went like until federal laws took hold and destroyed engine performance. My understanding of this cam is that the engine will have lots of TQ for quite a while and drop off quite quick this is because of the 112 degree lobe separation, if it were 110 degrees it would of made more HP, maybe a bit choppy at idle. The 112 degrees will also give it a nice idle and retain stock converter. If I am wrong which is possible as I am self taught wrench swinger. Car craft magazine has been very educational to me

 

[Bruceynz]

Anyone got any ideas on my cam selection and my reasoning?

This was the cam I used last time in my 1980 Chrysler New Yorker, with edlebrock performer intake and holley carb with XXX302 casting heads bolted on, it woke the 318 up but was a heavy car with a 2.45:1 axle.

Edelbrock 2177
Basic Operating RPM Range:Idle-5,500 Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift:204
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift:204
Duration at 050 inch Lift:204 int./204 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration:270
Advertised Exhaust Duration:270
Advertised Duration:270 int./270 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:0.420 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:0.420 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:0.420 int./0.420 exh.
Lobe Separation (degrees):110


For you cam gurus why would the edelbrock cam been spec from idle to 5500rpm where as the cam I have now is spec'ed from idle to 4400rpm, the new cam is slightly more aggressive but has the 112 lobe separation, can someone let me know why that is? is 110 - 112 make that much difference?

 

[aspen77rt]

Your cam is the same as the summit 6900

Summit Racing Part Number: SUM-K6900

Cam Style: Hydraulic flat tappet

Basic Operating RPM Range: 1,200-5,000

Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 204

Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 214

Duration at 050 inch Lift: 204 int./214 exh.

Advertised Intake Duration: 278

Advertised Exhaust Duration: 288

Advertised Duration: 278 int./288 exh.

Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.421 in.

Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.444 in.

Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.421 int./0.444 exh.

Lobe Separation (degrees): 112

So I do have exp with it. It is the Cam in my '84 W150 which is a 4speed.
'84 stock short block
Summit 6900 cam
#302 heads
Performer intake
Edelbrock 600 cfm
Headers
3.21 SG gears

Did very well for what I used it for.

Plenty of youtube sound bites for 318/ summit 6900.

 

[aspen77rt]

Anyone got any ideas on my cam selection and my reasoning?

This was the cam I used last time in my 1980 Chrysler New Yorker, with edlebrock performer intake and holley carb with XXX302 casting heads bolted on, it woke the 318 up but was a heavy car with a 2.45:1 axle.

Edelbrock 2177
Basic Operating RPM Range:Idle-5,500 Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift:204
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift:204
Duration at 050 inch Lift:204 int./204 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration:270
Advertised Exhaust Duration:270
Advertised Duration:270 int./270 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:0.420 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:0.420 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:0.420 int./0.420 exh.
Lobe Separation (degrees):110

Not saying it's a bad cam. Neither is the Summit 6900. It will work, no doubt, even though it's chevy lobe grind. Comp, Lunati, Crane all carry cams that are mopar specific for our .904 lifter. The cam you have with a 112 lsa would have a broader torque curve and better idle quality, than one with a 110 lsa. All things being equal.

For you cam gurus why would the edelbrock cam been spec from idle to 5500rpm where as the cam I have now is spec'ed from idle to 4400rpm, the new cam is slightly more aggressive but has the 112 lobe separation, can someone let me know why that is? is 110 - 112 make that much difference?

They couldnt match their edelbrock cam with their performer intake which they say is rated to 5500 rpm too. I would guess the edelbrock cam would fall on it's face before it ever got to 5500 rpm.

http://www.compcams.com/technical/FAQ/LSAproperties.asp

But, I wouldnt be concerned with the max rpm. Doesnt seem relevant to your application. Seems you want near stock idle, good vac, off idle performance, cruise rpm band around 2000-3000rpm.

However a custom cam will be far better than any OTS cam when your combo is set.

 

[Bruceynz]

aspen77rt - But, I wouldnt be concerned with the max rpm. Doesnt seem relevant to your application. Seems you want near stock idle, good vac, off idle performance, cruise rpm band around 2000-3000rpm.

Yup that's where I want to be at, perfect description, I have a Cordoba and not a race car that I want to drive around town and the odd high way run once a year

 

[aspen77rt]

aspen77rt - But, I wouldnt be concerned with the max rpm. Doesnt seem relevant to your application. Seems you want near stock idle, good vac, off idle performance, cruise rpm band around 2000-3000rpm.

Yup that's where I want to be at, perfect description, I have a Cordoba and not a race car that I want to drive around town and the odd high way run once a year

That cam (CK3004-1) should give good duty.


Go custom once your combo is set. They are not that much more in price. Worth it IMO.

 

[aspen77rt]

Babbling :mblah05:

Ive went to the same guy twice for cams. For the Aspen and one initially spec'd for the Mirada.

'77 Aspen (summary of Camshaft Questionnaire)
'96 360 Magnum
9.5 to 9.7:1 Comp
Indy X heads 1.94/1.625
The intake is an edelbrock LD 340.
The engine will be a carbuerated. The fuel pump will be standard mechanical.
Carb is a Street Demon 750 cfm
TTI Long Tube Headers: 1-5/8" O.D. primary tubes merged into 3" collectors
3.23 SG
4spd Manual

My requirements
*This will be a occasional cruiser. Will not see the track. Decent idle quality.

*Cam Specs Hyd Roller
Intake- 264(adv), 212 (.050), 127 (.200), .305" lobe (.488 w/1.6)
Exhaust- 268 (adv), 216 (.050), 130 (.200), .305" lobe (.488 w/1.6)
on a 113 Lobe Separation Angle
1700-5300 rpm


'80 Mirada (summary of Camshaft Questionnaire)
'95 318 Magnum
390 Stroke kit
9.5:1 Comp
Indy X heads 1.94/1.625
Ported Edelbrock performer
Edelbrock E-Street EFI
A998 lock-up with Dynamic custom converter
Hedman Tight Tubes
2.94 SG
1800-5200 rpm

My requirements
This will be a occasional cruiser used 70% highway @ 55mph+/30% City stop and go. Will not see the track other than screwing around. Would like to maintain 15" of Vac with decent idle quality, but indulge yourself.

*Cam Specs Hyd Roller
Intake: 268 (adv), 220 (.050"), 136 (.200")
Exhaust: 273 (adv), 223 (.050"), 139 (.200")
On a 112 Lobe Separation Angle, Lift in the (.490ish w/1.6) area

 

[Bruceynz]

Hi Aspen77rt,

All looks real good! Problem is that in NZ you have to have deep pockets to get machine work done, I am sort of stuck to off the shelf parts, a cam gets a bit of a problem to get through USPS to NZ, I have done it but adds over $100 usd in freight to get it here. I am in luck as I am getting a pallet of stuff together at the moment so this means I can bring all sorts of stuff over and it only cost what it costs, I have some XXX714 heads on the way I bought today actually and trying to locate a 8.25" rear end to fit my Cordoba around South Carolina where my friend lives who can help me out. My setup will be those 714 heads (same as 302 casting) with edelbrock performer intake, holley 1850s carb 600cfm, have new distributor and module to go in, double roller timing chain, debating if to go for some of those summit headers at $140 as headers here are like $1500 so big saving and that sum 6900 grind cam shaft. Should wake up the 318, compression will be up and cam will be better than stock, I am not out for ever once of power its going to be my everyday driver when I am done.

 

[aspen77rt]

Yowwwza.

Are there any mopar clubs in NZ?

 

[Bruceynz]

There is the NZ Mopar forum which is like this but for all mopars, they don't run clubs as its quite a hassle so they have tended to organize events via the forum. Take a look we have some pretty cool mopars down under http://www.nzmoparforum.co.nz/

As a club you have to have monthly meetings, people have to pay fees to be in it, you have to have annual general meetings and people don't have the time to attend so the forum works well, none of the hassle of a club but with all the things a club can do.

 

[aspen77rt]

Just noticed that the Duration is 278/278 but at 50 thou its 204/214 how can it be 278/278? I only ever look at the 50 thou duration :sad1:

I've seen the advertised compared to the @.050 duration of a cam points to it's ramp rate/velocity(lift rate). As a ballpark figure.

A cam with the same lift, same @.050 duration, but an advertised of 254/264 will have a faster ramp rate.

Someone else might chime in here, but @.050 is the general industry standard iirc.

This stuff will make your head hurt.

Of the two cams I posted for my cars, the Mirada' cam has a more aggressive ramp rate.

Hopefully someone else can chime in.

 

[Bruceynz]

Check this out, this is a similar build to what I am doing, he has the compression up but he also has bigger intake valves, cam specs look like the sum-6900, watch the video and you will see it falls flat pretty quick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10m7dDGBfFE

Shady Dell Speed Shop 318 Cubic Inch small block Mopar being dyno tested. Mild restoration engine for one owner 1968 Dodge Charger. 650 Holley, 8.2:1 compression, Edelbrock RPM intake, 1.88" valve 1968 318 heads, 204/214 @ .050" .422"/.444" hydraulic flat tappet camshaft.

283hp at 5000rpm pretty good reckon!

 

[aspen77rt]

I would venture to say, your comp will be higher with the 302's. I like your combo better.