mousehousemoparman said:
Hello Robert; I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone.
Uh-uh.
mousehousemoparman said:
I also have to say it isn't bashing if it is the truth and you would have a hard time proving my post as untruthful.
Actually, I did prove your post as untruthful. Well maybe not entirely untruthful, but one that wasn't quite full of the truth as I know it. As stated by examples from FEBO and my own experiences not every E-body owner is rich, not every one of the cars is the same. I say open your eyes and take a look around. There's E-bodies as restoration pieces, resto-mods, pro-touring, even old fashioned pro-street, as well as purpose built drag cars, purpose built road course racers, etc. Just the same as there is with any line up.
mousehousemoparman said:
I lived in your neck of the woods. I am almost fifty. I have spent the last twelve years in central Florida. All the rest was split evenly between the Lowell Massachusetts area and the Burlington Vermont area which is across the lake from you. Most of the time up north I struggled to make a living in the automotive business before finally throwing in the towel and moving to Florida. I've got to say it was the best decision I've ever made.
Not sure what this has to do with anything. Or this:
mousehousemoparman said:
I have owned and driven every Chrysler platform built from 1967 to 1990 and you are absolutely correct in saying that each one has its issues.
But it seems to me that you're trying to establish some sort of credibility from the two above statements. If that's the case, maybe I'll lend you some of my credentials:
Starting over twenty years ago I've been professionally paid to do everything to a car except drive 'em and sell 'em. I started off my career detailing cars in local dealership's body shop and worked my up from there. Fifteen years later I was the hard hit guy at another dealership, spending most of my time on the frame wrack, making cars straight again.
I got burned out on body work after spending so many hours pulling frames that I went into general mechanical repairs. From there I worked my way from doing small jobs like brakes and suspension into being a driveability expert at a local Ford dealership spending weeks at a time with just the scanner and a basic set of hand tools in my hands.
Somewhere in all this I also spent close to ten years owning and operating my restoration shop. Building cars from the ground up in some cases, to doing just routine mechanical maintenance. We also did upholstery, convertible and vinyl tops, as well as all major mechanicals. We spec'd our own frames for hot rods and fabbed everything we couldn't find good used or re-popped.
I'm one of the few guys in my age group in this area who knows how to tune a carb, set dwell on a set of points, and still be able to pull a reflash on an OBD-II computer. I'm also the only, yes, the
only guy in my area with extensive experience in both body work and mechanical repairs.
And just for good measure I also know what I'm doing when it comes to diesels.
My experience with Chrysler products, be it through ownership or repairs and restorations go from the '50's through today's cars.
Again, I don't know what this has to do with anything, but since you threw it out there...good enough for you?
mousehousemoparman said:
As far as E-Bodies in particular are concerned you are correct there are some in the hands of us common folk, but it isn't us common guys that have driven the prices of them thru the roof.
Actually, I would say there's a more in the hands of the "common" folks than you think. Go to Carlisle and strike up a conversation with a '72-'74 drop mouth owner or a '72-'74 round taillight owner. You'll find out that most of these guys bought the car fairly cheap and was able to restore it fairly inexpensively.
I've also go news for you. The collectibility of the E-bodies has had a bleed over effect on the other lines ups for Mopar. When Pop got the Barracuda sitting in my garage oh so many years ago the only sheetmetal for his Duster (now my nephew's) was the spare tire well floor. Now look at the sheetmetal that's available for the later A-bodies. Look at the sheetmetal that's come online in just the past year for the early A-'s.
That's what driving the market forward.
We'll see if there's a bleed over affect on the F-bodies. A-bodies are still out there, easily obtained, rather inexpensively, and easily built, again, rather inexpensively. It's when the market moves a car out of the price range of the "common" folk that next car comes in and fills the niche.
Again, I'm a realist. There will be no bleed over effect, at least in my lifetime, for the J's and M's.
mousehousemoparman said:
As far as being cars are concerned they should have been the ones (the E-body..ed) with the rust bucket poor quality reputation instead of the F-Body being branded that. Want proof just look at the aftermarket parts availability. You can almost build one from repop parts.
mousehousemoparman said:
The E-Body is no better and no worse than any other mopar that has ever been built and that included the F,J,M bodies.
A little backtracking going on?
mousehousemoparman said:
I do have to take issue with two of your comments.
Oh well.
mousehousemoparman said:
76 and 77 F-Bodies being junk
Wrong. Own a few. Talk to the Chrysler techs of the era. These cars were rust prone just sitting on the dealers' lots.
mousehousemoparman said:
and the Cordoba being Chyslers crown Jewel. It wasn't the Cordoba that held that distinction but the Imperial and a lesser extent the LeBaron which was added to many Imperial bodies.
History lesson: the Imperial bit the dust at the end of '75. The Cordoba came on line at the same time the Imperial was shelved. From '76 on the focus of the Chrysler line up was the Cordoba, especially in advertising, with bringing a "name" on board to become the face of the car. Sure, there was still the New Yorker Brougham, which took over the C-body line up for the Imperial, but the NY'er Brougham was also offered cheaper and with less appointments than the Cordoba Crown and the Imperial before it. When the LeBaron name was added back to the line up in '78 on the M-body platform it was still the lesser of the cars between it and the Cordoba. It wasn't until Iacocca decided that the Y-body Imperial should be added back to the line up to carry the flag in '81 that the Cordoba took a backseat.
mousehousemoparman said:
If we must get technical the 76, 77, and early 78 had the same issues but that hardly makes them junk. I have seen the early ones where the top of the fenders rusted out. And the hood hinge mounts break and the spring falls thru the inner fender. I have seen where the front frame rails rust and the car breaks and the only thing holding it together is the steering column.
And this all happened in a span of a few years, or less in the rust belt states, and less than 50,000 miles and you don't consider this junk? While your siting the rust, let's be realistic here. Like I said, the build quality came up in '78, without a lot of the issues the '76s and early '77s were having. This also seems to coincide with the introduction of the M-body and the Chrysler LeBaron and the planning stages for putting the Cordoba name on the J-body. I don't believe it was coincidence. The LeBaron and the Cordoba were going to be sold upscale, and, again, it's that upscale money that "forced" Ma Mopar into correcting the issues.
But it wasn't just rust, as I've stated before. Carb issues abounded. I've even seen one well known Mopar magazine editor put it this: "the '76 F-body had carbs with parts that dissolved in gasoline." Electrical issues were rampant. (Where's there's rust, there's corrosion on electricals.)
mousehousemoparman said:
But in all fairness they were not built any worse than the A-Bodies they replaced or the E's or the C's nor the B's.
Um, yes they were. Hence the reason to bring better quality online with the '78 MY and the introduction of the M-body.
mousehousemoparman said:
...these cars were built with thinner tin.
mousehousemoparman said:
It just took longer for the damage to show up due to the thicker gauge steel.
Again, given your previous statements, you don't see a contradiction here, from your own words?
Except for someone with so much experience in the automotive field you'll understand that these cars were all made of 18 gauge steel, still to that point in time, don't you?
mousehousemoparman said:
The imports of the era were even worse.
Your tangent about the imports is the same as the tangents of bring the other two of the Big Three into the conversation. My focus here is on the Chrysler products and pointing out the weaknesses which need to be overcome in this day in age to make them driveable, enjoyable cars again.
