Running a thermoquad on an 88 ELB conversion?

[8v-of-fury]

Would you recommend I run a TQ to top my ELB conversion?? I am getting an Edelbrock Performer 4v intake, so I need a carb.. For the same price as the intake and carb, was the price to replace the 6280 carb with the 2280 non feedback carb.. so hey, WHY NOT UPGRADE! Thanks guys, I am in a very tight time "budget" so your quick answers are greatly appreciated!

 

[8v-of-fury]

Basically I am thinking an 800 TQ I guess from a BB engine?? I have heard these are good units because it does only ever fuel the engine for what it needs, never over fuels. So maybe one day down the road, upon modification it would be enough carb without further modification in the fuel dpmt?

 

[8v-of-fury]

I am not set in stone on carb yet.. but I am buying an Edelbrock 2176/3776 performer intake. Which is a spreadbore, so I need advice on what spread bore carb I should put on this thing then. Stock 88 318 in a 5th avenue in Canada if that matters? lol. The only upgrades will be getting rid of the ELB, with an orange box ecu and "performance" springs in the mechanical advance. please tell me what carb to use.. lol! I am such a newb at Chrysler stuff

 

[8v-of-fury]

Sorry that I keep bumping my own thread, but I am in hardcore research mode going about 3.3 miles per minute here.. I need to document what I need to ask or it will be long gone with my thoughts of 30 seconds ago 6-2146 X4 Carter ThermoQuad. I read somewhere that the part numbers starting with 6 were the ones to look for?? I am basically looking for the best carburetor choice to put on this originally 2bbl car to work with the throttle cable / choke / tranny kick down. The cruise doesn't work anymore so I am not concerned of its hook up. What you all got?! Come on you MOPAR GUYS, Show me them big cajones! On second thought, no please don't lol.I fully appreciate the help 123% in advance!

 

[8v-of-fury]

Sorry that I keep bumping my own thread, but I am in hardcore research mode going about 3.3 miles per minute here.. I need to document what I need to ask or it will be long gone with my thoughts of 30 seconds ago ---6-2146 X4 Carter ThermoQuad. I read somewhere that the part numbers starting with 6 were the ones to look for?? I am basically looking for the best carburetor choice to put on this originally 2bbl car to work with the throttle cable / choke / tranny kick down. The cruise doesn't work anymore so I am not concerned of its hook up. ---What you all got?! Come on you MOPAR GUYS, Show me them big cajones! On second thought, no please don't lol. I fully appreciate the help 123% in advance!

 

[kkritsilas]

Try to get a TQ from anything before 1980. That way it will have the vacuum port already installed, and will hook up to a distributor with a vacuum advance. The standard distributors for ELB cars didn't have a vacuum advance, so you will need one of those as well. The carb will need a rebuild, either on your own, or from a good rebuilder. The distributor may need one as well. Depending on the local junkyard situation, much of this can be had from Dodge standard sized pickups (as opposed to the D50) of the same approximate year range as your car, as the trucks didn't get ELB, or at least, not may did. We also did get 318-4V J bodies in Canada from 1981-1983, while in the US, the only 318-4Vs were in California, the rest of the US got 318-2Vs for 1981-1983. Also, don't get too hung up on the TQ models, in the hands of a somebody who knows what they are doing, either the 800 or 850 CFM models can be made to work well on a 318, and just for the record, the 800CFM was found on small blocks all the way to some 383/400 big blocks, and some 850s were used on small blocks (340s and 360 higher performance models).

Kostas

 

[Monkeyed]

We also did get 318-4V J bodies in Canada from 1981-1983, while in the US, the only 318-4Vs were in California, the rest of the US got 318-2Vs for 1981-1983.

pardon my own ignorance, 4V can't possibly be 4 Valves, right?

To the OP I'm a little further along in doing the same thing with an '89 5th ave. I hhave a few threads going here with some good links on them, I can try and consolidate and post them here if you want.

 

[kkritsilas]

No, it isn't 4 valves. V is also used to denote "barrels", same as BBL (which isn't even a contraction of barrel). "V" I think stands for venturi, the true name for the "barrels" in a carburetor. Barrels, to get technical, bulge outwards at the middle, while venturis bulge inward in the middle, as do the openings in carburetors (most of the time, some carbs have straight barrels, like the secondaries in Thermoquads do).

Kostas

 

[Monkeyed]

No, it isn't 4 valves. V is also used to denote "barrels", same as BBL (which isn't even a contraction of barrel). "V" I think stands for venturi, the true name for the "barrels" in a carburetor. Barrels, to get technical, bulge outwards at the middle, while venturis bulge inward in the middle, as do the openings in carburetors (most of the time, some carbs have straight barrels, like the secondaries in Thermoquads do).

Kostas

I always wondered why bbl meant "barrel".

"The "b" may have been doubled originally to indicate the plural (1 bl, 2 bbl), or possibly it was doubled to eliminate any confusion with bl as a symbol for the bale. Some sources assert that "bbl" originated as a symbol for "blue barrels" delivered by Standard Oil in its early days" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrel_(unit)

even wiki isn't sure!

 

[8v-of-fury]

Even 4 cylinder engines are at the smallest an 8v. lol Hence my user name.. I am a 4 cylinder diesel guy, and this U/N has been with me for the better part of 8 years now.I thank you all, I don't know if I said this already but I have a spreadbore Edelbrock Performer on the way.. so I am just down to carb. I would like one that will be as little hassle as possible. This is my grandmothers car after all (83 years old) so she needs something reliable on there, not something needing tweaking every 2 weeks lol.Will a TQ off any of the earlier chryslers work with my 88 tranny linkage and that?

 

[8v-of-fury]

Also Monkeyed thank-you i will look over your posts!

 

[jasperjacko]

Summit Racing sells tq's for less than 300 bucks. I would use the smaller carb for a 318.

 

[8v-of-fury]

I do agree that new would ultimately be the best option.. but I cannot afford that at this time. I have found a local supplier who has a ton of thermo-quads.. Maybe he can even rebuild it and set -it up for me? Teach me a thing or two. Who knows.

I will keep this updated with what becomes I have noticed there are quite a few ELB conversion threads.. but many of them leave out very crucial details, so I will try and compile it in to a nice outlined how-to sort-of.

 

[NoCar340]

I didn't realize this thread was here. I posted in the other one. :eusa_doh:

Setting up a TQ is rather easy. Whatever you do, though, don't attempt to remove the throttle blades during a rebuild. That's asking for disaster either right at the moment or further down the road.

 

[Monkeyed]

I will keep this updated with what becomes I have noticed there are quite a few ELB conversion threads.. but many of them leave out very crucial details, so I will try and compile it in to a nice outlined how-to sort-of.

I've noticed that too. I think if you look at several different versions that all share the same details, you'll find that they fill in each others gaps, and you can get a whole "picture" that way.

When I get to the point of jumping in and doing it, if I run into any road-blocks (figuratively(I hope)), I can always post up here. Back in the day, from what I can see, some dealerships wouldn't even void your warrenty for having this done. It's not like modifying a Corvette,, where people react as if you'd just walked into there church and took a dump......during the sermon.......on the altar

 

[8v-of-fury]

So if you've read my other thread, I got it all together and running.. now for the tuning. I guess it'd be better off here because now the lines of question are fuel system related.

I think I have it set to its best spot that i can get it too.. but I still seem to have a bog coming off of idle. If the engine is high enough in the RPM it can push through it and you barely notice. If the engine rpms are lower, the bog is enough fuel to stall the motor out completely.

I drove it around for like an hour last night with great primary and secondary performance... and then it started acting like a dick. and today I couldn't for the life of me get it set to where it wanted to run "great"

 

[8v-of-fury]

Here is a thought I had rolling around in my head.. should I hook up the vacuum advance line to see what happens for running?

It works to advance timing at idle and low throttle applications correct? So I could set static timing to what it needs to be to avoid knocking, and the vacuum advance would allow part throttle advance to pick up and possibly make-up for the poor off idle performance?

I feel like the Carb is drowning the engine with fuel before the RPM's and subsequently the advance has picked up yet. I have read a little bit about the TQ's primary metering rods being somewhat adjustable.. I have adjusted the spring tension down on the piston in the middle which I think means they raise slower and later.

Last night I had it running GREAT. No off idle flooding/bogging tons of power right up through the secondaries opening and going way too fast. Today I could not replicate that in anyway.

It actually left me stranded where it started running rough (after about an hour of in town running around) and then stalled. To where I could not get it running at all. no cough or sputters, nothing. Waited a while cause i then figured out everyone I could call was drunk, or out of town.. Greaatt. lolol So my time sitting was enough for it to get started again after extended cranking and the fire coming on slowly.. to where I could literally only give it a foots weight of throttle movement to keep the engine barely running to very very slowly limp home..

Today? No amount of tuning can bring back what I had last night, constant bogging when the throttle plates open and that forces the metering rods up.

 

[jasperjacko]

sounds like vac leak or not enough fuel to me. Check to see if you have a good fuel squirt from the accel. pump

 

[8v-of-fury]

Yes there is a good fuel shot from the accel pump.

This TQ is a 75 model, so there is only 5-6 vac ports on it. The distributor, PCV, I think EGR, choke, and the air cleaner heated air plug. I have the heated air, and the EGR one plugged. The choke line is good, the PCV one is a good line, and the dizzy one I have capped as well right now to properly set the new mechanical advance of this aftermarket distributor.

 

[8v-of-fury]

Just so I have proper thought of how this carb works.. as the metering rods move up, that is allowing more fuel to rush past them on the smaller part of the rod correct?