1977 LeBaron Base owner questions

77 LeBaron

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Before jumping to conclusions on fuel mileage, I would recommend testing your odometer for calibration, first.

Find a stretch of highway with mile markers. Either write down odometer reading (or use cell phone to take a picture of it as you cross the mile marker). Drive for 10 miles (50 or 100 is better, but not always possible) and record mileage again.

The reason I say that is speedometers can be off, as well as tire size being off.

When your car was made, they used tire sizes like for example FR70-14 – which doesn’t directly translate to metric sized tires (example 205/70R14). Tire size alone could be part of your problem (IE: odometer is accumulating more (or less) miles than car is actually traveling).

Example, my ’77 wagon odometer is 17% off, with the tires that came with car. That can be fixed with a correct sized speedometer gear (that fits inside of the transmission). I need to remove my old speedometer gear and get a replacement one (or two) tooth different, and I should be good. I just hadn’t gotten to it, yet.

So, check your odometer for accuracy first, then we can check fuel mileage.

Note: there is actually two different calibrations here, one is odometer reading (miles traveled) and other is speedometer reading (which won’t be correct if odometer is off).
Both are not necessarily tied to each other
BudW
Bud my tires are 16'' on aftermarket aluminum rims , for a second I thought I had the factory OEM aluminum wheels. So would 16'' wheels decrease an mpg reading if the wheels are supposed to be smaller on the factory wheels ? I will be interested to hear the answer on this topic .
 

77 LeBaron

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Before jumping to conclusions on fuel mileage, I would recommend testing your odometer for calibration, first.

Find a stretch of highway with mile markers. Either write down odometer reading (or use cell phone to take a picture of it as you cross the mile marker). Drive for 10 miles (50 or 100 is better, but not always possible) and record mileage again.

The reason I say that is speedometers can be off, as well as tire size being off.

When your car was made, they used tire sizes like for example FR70-14 – which doesn’t directly translate to metric sized tires (example 205/70R14). Tire size alone could be part of your problem (IE: odometer is accumulating more (or less) miles than car is actually traveling).

Example, my ’77 wagon odometer is 17% off, with the tires that came with car. That can be fixed with a correct sized speedometer gear (that fits inside of the transmission). I need to remove my old speedometer gear and get a replacement one (or two) tooth different, and I should be good. I just hadn’t gotten to it, yet.

So, check your odometer for accuracy first, then we can check fuel mileage.

Note: there is actually two different calibrations here, one is odometer reading (miles traveled) and other is speedometer reading (which won’t be correct if odometer is off).
Both are not necessarily tied to each other
BudW
Bud I checked my tire pressure today and found out my tires ar 16" on aftermarket aluminum rims, I thought I had factory aluminum wheels at first glance . I believe the factory stock wheels are 15" would larger wheels cause lower MPG calculations ?
 

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Any radiator shop can do the repairs, and it will only take them a couple of hours to do it.

The repair is called “re-core” or more commonly known as “recore”,

They will un-solder the bracket(s), then un-solder the two tanks from the core. Replace the core with a new part. Re-solder the tanks and brackets back on, then pressure test it under water (water shows even the smallest leak very very well).
If it is a radiator, they would then repaint with black paint - but will leave a heater core un-painted.

Once done, it will be just as if you bought a brand new one from Dodge (which, by the way are few and far apart now).

As to the cost, I don’t know. Just look up radiator shop in your area (Google is your friend here) and call them.
I’d guess between $50-70, maybe (but could be way off).
BudW
 

BudW

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Tire size will make a difference.
Wheel size, not so much.

If you look at the tires, there should be a tire size stamped on both sides and it will look something like this
1530282 B.jpg

1529469 a.jpg


On your door jamb, there will be a tire sticker that should look something like this (might be in owner’s manual, as well).
20170217_185236r.jpg

Hard to read but says P205/75R15 (from my ’86 5th Ave), which is metric.

The tire size on my ’77 Volare Wagon are F78-14 (with FR78-14 and GR78-14’s optional).
All three tire sizes do not have a metric equivalent.

Can you record the tire sizes (and make sure they are the same on all 4 corners) and report back, please?
BudW
 

77 LeBaron

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Yes they match all around they are brand spanking new Yokohama 205-78-16's, my Lebaron factory door label and owners manual information listed tire size is FR78-15 as is the full size original spare in the trunk. the FR is 205 I believe .
 

77 LeBaron

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You are right Bud it was a typo on my part ! I have a question related to another minor matter I need a screw that goes into the interior rear view mirror where it joins the metal base which is glued to the windshield . I do not know the part number my only other alternative is to gorilla glue the mirror to the metal base which I do not want to do. Thanks Bud you are a wealth of knowledge.
 

77 LeBaron

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I am still hopeful about finding a reliable honest Mopar man to work on my Lebaron . I am going to do a coolant change and hose replacement now that I am on heater bypass mode. I am not going to use those radiator flush deals because I have heard they can cause the seals to leak on gaskets . Just an old fashioned flushing with water until clear and drive until it hit normal operating temps. Then cool down and do it again. Some people say use baking soda, vinegar, CLR , etc . Anyone heard of a mild flush additive ?
 
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BudW

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I have a question related to another minor matter I need a screw that goes into the interior rear view mirror where it joins the metal base which is glued to the windshield
I can find a replacement screw – but will tell you, you don’t need it.

Matter of fact, not having the screw in place (or having it tight), will keep the “glued on button” from coming off of the glass, as much.

I would much rather accidentally hit the mirror with my hand (or head or whatever) and have the mirror jump away from the button, than I would have the mirror and button pop away from the glass – on any day.

I have glued windshield buttons on, at least a thousand times in my lifetime, and to this date, I haven’t tightened that mirror screw yet (nor have I had anyone complain about it being loose).

Nothing made was designed to stick to glass, except for “stickers” and “dirt”.
Why Chrysler went with everyone else and glued a mirror onto glass, IDK.

Every FMJ front roof support that I have ever seen, has three screw holes pre-drilled (or punched) just behind the headliner. I swore the next time one of my mirror buttons pop off of the glass on either my F/M bodies, I will get an older screw on mirror (which are available repop for older A, B & E-bodies) and fix that problem, for good.

Then I want to find the bean-counter who started this whole “glued-on” thing and find them in a deserted ally somewhere (note any “glue” hostility in my words?)!!!

Note: I ran out of time today – will get to rest of questions, shortly.
BudW
 

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Just an old fashioned flushing with water until clear and drive until it hit normal operating temps. Then cool down and do it again.
Sounds like a plan.

My opinion (only), I don't see that coolant flush solvent will damage to seals or to gaskets.

Now with that said, if cooling system has a lot of deposits in the system, and if any previous leaking gaskets might be plugged from settlement or debris.
Cleaning out all of that “stuff” will re-open those leaks.

Example: I have replaced a few hundred freeze plugs over the years.
A lot of them rust from inside out. On the ones that have rusted from inside out, they are generally the ones towards the rear of engine, and generally have at least an inch of “stuff” (or crud) right behind the freeze plugs. If a person was flush the system out, then all of that “stuff” (or crud) would have been flushed out, leaving the mostly plugged rust holes already present (but barely leaking now) now opened up.
Note: those cars take a lot of water and a lot digging with a coat hanger, to get all of that mud out.

On a different topic. I have listened in on a lot of lectures as to why to change coolant/antifreeze every two years (in reference to the “green” coolant, not the new fangled stuff in use today).
Coolant/antifreeze has three purposes in life: a lower point of freezing, a higher point of boiling and rust/corrosion prevention.

Glycol doesn't go bad, per se. The rust and corrosion prohibiters only last about two years – which is the reason to change it.
I do know you can tell, by working on any older car, if coolant has been changed every couple of years or so – vs. not.

Personally, I think that lack of rust and corrosion prohibiters is the main reason for most heater core failures (note: no proof of this – just my theory only).

In my opinion, I don't see any problem with using flush solvent – for I would rather find those leaks now, than later.
Also ANY cleaning is far better than no cleaning!

Also note: either use 50/50 pre-mix OR 100% Glycol coolant mixed 50/50 with DISTILLED (only) water. Never use tap water – for it will promotes rust and corrosion.
BudW
 

77 LeBaron

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I can find a replacement screw – but will tell you, you don’t need it.

Matter of fact, not having the screw in place (or having it tight), will keep the “glued on button” from coming off of the glass, as much.

I would much rather accidentally hit the mirror with my hand (or head or whatever) and have the mirror jump away from the button, than I would have the mirror and button pop away from the glass – on any day.

I have glued windshield buttons on, at least a thousand times in my lifetime, and to this date, I haven’t tightened that mirror screw yet (nor have I had anyone complain about it being loose).

Nothing made was designed to stick to glass, except for “stickers” and “dirt”.
Why Chrysler went with everyone else and glued a mirror onto glass, IDK.

Every FMJ front roof support that I have ever seen, has three screw holes pre-drilled (or punched) just behind the headliner. I swore the next time one of my mirror buttons pop off of the glass on either my F/M bodies, I will get an older screw on mirror (which are available repop for older A, B & E-bodies) and fix that problem, for good.

Then I want to find the bean-counter who started this whole “glued-on” thing and find them in a deserted ally somewhere (note any “glue” hostility in my words?)!!!

Note: I ran out of time today – will get to rest of questions, shortly.
BudW
Thanks Bud I found my mirror screw , My front passenger parking lamp lens, My driver side rear quarter panel lower chrome molding , and rear deck name script, also acquired the 1977 shop manual and the Supplement ! I am going to use the screw because there is some minor play in the mirror when connected to the metal base , The other parts were easy to find and the one that cost the most ...you guessed it the chrome molding ! You definitely have some glue hostility !
 
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77 LeBaron

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Sounds like a plan.

My opinion (only), I don't see that coolant flush solvent will damage to seals or to gaskets.

Now with that said, if cooling system has a lot of deposits in the system, and if any previous leaking gaskets might be plugged from settlement or debris.
Cleaning out all of that “stuff” will re-open those leaks.

Example: I have replaced a few hundred freeze plugs over the years.
A lot of them rust from inside out. On the ones that have rusted from inside out, they are generally the ones towards the rear of engine, and generally have at least an inch of “stuff” (or crud) right behind the freeze plugs. If a person was flush the system out, then all of that “stuff” (or crud) would have been flushed out, leaving the mostly plugged rust holes already present (but barely leaking now) now opened up.
Note: those cars take a lot of water and a lot digging with a coat hanger, to get all of that mud out.

On a different topic. I have listened in on a lot of lectures as to why to change coolant/antifreeze every two years (in reference to the “green” coolant, not the new fangled stuff in use today).
Coolant/antifreeze has three purposes in life: a lower point of freezing, a higher point of boiling and rust/corrosion prevention.

Glycol doesn't go bad, per se. The rust and corrosion prohibiters only last about two years – which is the reason to change it.
I do know you can tell, by working on any older car, if coolant has been changed every couple of years or so – vs. not.

Personally, I think that lack of rust and corrosion prohibiters is the main reason for most heater core failures (note: no proof of this – just my theory only).

In my opinion, I don't see any problem with using flush solvent – for I would rather find those leaks now, than later.
Also ANY cleaning is far better than no cleaning!

Also note: either use 50/50 pre-mix OR 100% Glycol coolant mixed 50/50 with DISTILLED (only) water. Never use tap water – for it will promotes rust and corrosion.
BudW
Oh the coolant looked good I am getting all new hoses and a new thermostat , I am just giving the system a mild water flush . You are right on the freeze plugs I can see where the ones towards the tranny are new. I'll be sure to used distilled in the mix Thanks again for all the help !
 

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I have seen way too many “blown” hoses on older cars – so glad to see you changing them.

Most (but not all) hoses generally have a date stamp on them (example 11-12 – which would be November of 2012). If hose is more than 10 years old, is hard when squeezed or shows any signs of cracking anywhere – CHANGE THEM!
That goes for heater hoses, radiator hoses and the coolant bypass hose.

On the thermostat, Chrysler thermostats do not fail that often. Personally, I would avoid replacing it, unless you just have money to burn.

It you do elect to change it, I do recommend performing a few extra steps.
One, get a tap and clean the two bolt holes well. Some thermostat holes are blind and will require a blind thread cleaner. Too many times I have seen corrosion present there that will keep the bolts from actually becoming tight (bolts are tight, but thermostat cover is loose).
Next, take a flat file and carefully take a few long swipes on both surfaces (intake and thermostat housing), making sure no pits are present. If any pits are present in the gasket surface, don’t keep filing. Just report back here.
Be sure to note direction of thermostat. Many cases a person can install them backwards.
Don’t overtighten the bolts (they break easily). Clean the bolts well (may require a wire brush.
I do recommend using blue Loctite – not because bolts need to remain tight, but the Loctite displaces any possible corrosion. It is no fun trying to extract a broken thermostat bolt – when it could have been prevented.
Note: I recommend doing this with small block water pump and upper timing cover bolts, as well.

I have resealed and resealed (and resealed) a lot of those thermostat housings, and after the first few hundred re-dos, you learn start to learn to take a few extra steps, so you don’t have to mess with it, anymore.

Note: the thermostat housing is NOT made flat, on purpose. Try to keep it that way (smiles).
BudW
 

77 LeBaron

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I have seen way too many “blown” hoses on older cars – so glad to see you changing them.

Most (but not all) hoses generally have a date stamp on them (example 11-12 – which would be November of 2012). If hose is more than 10 years old, is hard when squeezed or shows any signs of cracking anywhere – CHANGE THEM!
That goes for heater hoses, radiator hoses and the coolant bypass hose.

On the thermostat, Chrysler thermostats do not fail that often. Personally, I would avoid replacing it, unless you just have money to burn.

It you do elect to change it, I do recommend performing a few extra steps.
One, get a tap and clean the two bolt holes well. Some thermostat holes are blind and will require a blind thread cleaner. Too many times I have seen corrosion present there that will keep the bolts from actually becoming tight (bolts are tight, but thermostat cover is loose).
Next, take a flat file and carefully take a few long swipes on both surfaces (intake and thermostat housing), making sure no pits are present. If any pits are present in the gasket surface, don’t keep filing. Just report back here.
Be sure to note direction of thermostat. Many cases a person can install them backwards.
Don’t overtighten the bolts (they break easily). Clean the bolts well (may require a wire brush.
I do recommend using blue Loctite – not because bolts need to remain tight, but the Loctite displaces any possible corrosion. It is no fun trying to extract a broken thermostat bolt – when it could have been prevented.
Note: I recommend doing this with small block water pump and upper timing cover bolts, as well.

I have resealed and resealed (and resealed) a lot of those thermostat housings, and after the first few hundred re-dos, you learn start to learn to take a few extra steps, so you don’t have to mess with it, anymore.

Note: the thermostat housing is NOT made flat, on purpose. Try to keep it that way (smiles).
BudW
Thanks Bud I will keep you updated on my progress when I start , I am a few hoses away from the project.
 

77 LeBaron

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I was watching Youtube and the Mexican version of 1978 LeBaron is equipped with the 360 engine that puts out 285 HP !
 
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