Exhaust pipe removal

[Bluejeansthe5th]

cNo, the y pipe never had to get destroyed.I will say that's one of the more annoying jobs on the car. I had to stop several times out of frustration.
Don't feel too bad on the Ford guy. Some Ford products have you removing the head to remove the exhaust manifolds!! And then there's there large number of true non removable parts, the non standardized parts that change multiple times etc... And I can complain because I own the things and come from a Ford family..

Mike, I am going to pick your brains, or maybe BudW's. It took me all of 15 minutes to cut the two bolts on the left side, after the starter was out. Used a cut off tool that uses round discs, so I could get up there at a good angle. I have unbolted the four bolts and two nuts on the right exhaust manifold. Plus the air pump pipe on the back. Something seems to be holding the Y-pipe in place. The manifold will pry out a bit at the front, but not much on the back. I can't see any brackets or anything still holding the pipe in place. It is very solid on the left side, like it is rusted to the manifold. The hanger in front of the back convertor is off. The exhaust is still connected. I am thinking of unfastening the bracket over the rear axle so it will be loose. Seems strange things are so stuck in place. I don't see any other fastening spots in the 83 parts or the 87 FSM I have. The FSM has not been a lot of help. Guess when you are at the dealership you get help not in the manual. Any thought would be appreciated.

 

[Justwondering]

I'm lurking... watching your thread.
I have a y-pipe that is going into my 87 fifth avenue after the COOLER weather appears.
I'm now thinking that it is going to the muffler guy to install it.

My hand strength is pitiful.
Bleh

JW

 

[BudW]

@Justwondering, you will want a muffler shop do the Y-pipe on the Fifth Ave.
I am confident about a lot of things you can do, but this is one job for a professional.

Your Lebaron could be a coin toss (providing it doesn't have the two front cats on it) to do in-house or to send out. If it does have the the two front cats (somewhat like the second picture on post #11) then I don't recommend it for you.
I suspect your Lebaron only has the rear cat on it.
BudW

 

[BudW]

Something seems to be holding the Y-pipe in place.

The bracket (red arrow) attaches to the transmission. The two exhaust manifold flanges and this transmission bracket makes the front part of exhaust pretty stable.

A closeup of the transmission bracket. The purple arrow is pointing towards front of vehicle.

Some FMJ's have the exhaust bracket attach to the transmission mount and not to the transmission extension housing, like your car has.

If your didn't have the rear cat on car, you can do away with the transmission exhaust bracket.
Without that transmission bracket and with cat in place, you will experience cracks in the exhaust pipe due to the extra weight.
BudW

 

[Bluejeansthe5th]

View attachment 45098
The bracket (red arrow) attaches to the transmission. The two exhaust manifold flanges and this transmission bracket makes the front part of exhaust pretty stable.
View attachment 45099
A closeup of the transmission bracket. The purple arrow is pointing towards front of vehicle.

Some FMJ's have the exhaust bracket attach to the transmission mount and not to the transmission extension housing, like your car has.

If your didn't have the rear cat on car, you can do away with the transmission exhaust bracket.
Without that transmission bracket and with cat in place, you will experience cracks in the exhaust pipe due to the extra weight.
BudW

BudW Thank you, I unbolted the hanger, but will remove the bracket. You sure are right about the pipe being stable. Hardly think they needed to fasten them at the manifold. I note your post to Just Wondering about going to a muffler shop. Problem is, the car is torn down and not running... I sure hope this works, and really appreciate your detailed help!

 

[BudW]

The front cats on my '86 Fifth Ave are stopped completely up.
Car will start run, but will die within 30 seconds due to back pressure.

I was planning on replacing the Y-pipe on my Fifth this fall, but got recent roof damage to my garage that I need to fix, first (sigh).

 

[Mikes5thAve]

The y-pipe is a tight fit in there and solid exhaust so it could be that holding it together since you still have one side bolted to the manifold. They can get stuck on the manifold too so you could try prying down on the left side and see if it pops.

 

[Bluejeansthe5th]

The front cats on my '86 Fifth Ave are stopped completely up.
Car will start run, but will die within 30 seconds due to back pressure.

I was planning on replacing the Y-pipe on my Fifth this fall, but got recent roof damage to my garage that I need to fix, first (sigh).

Life does seem to throw monkey wrenches at us at times, Just wanted you to know that at 2:15 this afternoon, the pipe finally came down. What a fight. I can see why you said a shop should do it. However a shop I dropped by to ask about that said Federal Law prohibited them from removing the pipes, due to the cats on there. That was unless they put it back up. Sounded like a pretty strict reading of the law. Anyway, now I am fighting with the new sprockets going on the stubs on the cam and crankshaft and lining up with the camshaft woodruff key. Looks like more fiddling, but cleaner. Good Luck on your roof.

 

[Bluejeansthe5th]

The y-pipe is a tight fit in there and solid exhaust so it could be that holding it together since you still have one side bolted to the manifold. They can get stuck on the manifold too so you could try prying down on the left side and see if it pops.

I guess I should be happy the pipe is solid, as I can't replace it. Pipe is down, oil pan is down and now on to installing new sprockets and putting it all back together. Thanks for your help.

 

[BudW]

It is against US Federal law (and maybe even state or local law(s)) for a repair shop to remove a catalytic converter and not replace it.

If a car came into shop with a section missing that may (or might not be) from where a catalytic converter (may or might not have been at), then a shop "should be able" to fix that missing section of pipe.


I happen to have a nice used Y-pipe removed from a '80 Aspen wagon, that I will use to replace the, um, stopped up Y-pipe from my '80 Fifth Ave. Now don't be looking at my signature (below) or looking at the fact there is no such thing as a '80 Fifth Ave. Also pay no attention the car looks exactly like an '86 Fifth Ave - it must just be a fluke.

I will be putting the Y-pipe on, myself, and I have a new rear cat converter to install at same time. To be honest, the entire exhaust system on my Fifth Ave is about to crumble to a rust pile. In '87 Chrysler started to use stainless steel for exhaust systems, across the board, but that started a year after my car was made.

If I didn't have have a Y-pipe, I would either:
A) drive (tow, pull, or whatever) my car to a muffler shop without a Y-pipe on it as well as no tail pipes etc. and have them build up from nothing. or
B) while Y-pipe is removed, cut small holes into the front cats and drill, knock out, use explosives, or whatever, to get as much of the stopped up guts out, then re-install, then whistle Dixie (or something) when taking car to get the rest of the exhaust system replaced (with my new rear cat, in a box, in backseat).
The front Y-pipes are made of ubertainium right now so one gotta do what one gotta do.

Technically, I do have part of a '84 police Y-pipe (see post # 11) I could use . . . but I won't
BudW

 

[Bluejeansthe5th]

It is against US Federal law (and maybe even state or local law(s)) for a repair shop to remove a catalytic converter and not replace it.

If a car came into shop with a section missing that may (or might not be) from where a catalytic converter (may or might not have been at), then a shop "should be able" to fix that missing section of pipe.


I happen to have a nice used Y-pipe removed from a '80 Aspen wagon, that I will use to replace the, um, stopped up Y-pipe from my '80 Fifth Ave. Now don't be looking at my signature (below) or looking at the fact there is no such thing as a '80 Fifth Ave. Also pay no attention the car looks exactly like an '86 Fifth Ave - it must just be a fluke.

I will be putting the Y-pipe on, myself, and I have a new rear cat converter to install at same time. To be honest, the entire exhaust system on my Fifth Ave is about to crumble to a rust pile. In '87 Chrysler started to use stainless steel for exhaust systems, across the board, but that started a year after my car was made.

If I didn't have have a Y-pipe, I would either:
A) drive (tow, pull, or whatever) my car to a muffler shop without a Y-pipe on it as well as no tail pipes etc. and have them build up from nothing. or
B) while Y-pipe is removed, cut small holes into the front cats and drill, knock out, use explosives, or whatever, to get as much of the stopped up guts out, then re-install, then whistle Dixie (or something) when taking car to get the rest of the exhaust system replaced (with my new rear cat, in a box, in backseat).
The front Y-pipes are made of ubertainium right now so one gotta do what one gotta do.

Technically, I do have part of a '84 police Y-pipe (see post # 11) I could use . . . but I won't
BudW

Thanks for the explanation about Federal Law, which is essentially what the muffler shop said. I'm also glad the exhaust on my car is made of SS. I wonder if anyone will make Y-pipes for these cars. especially the ones like yours. I was very concerned about damaging it during this removal. This whole situation had made me wonder how much money Chrysler was saving when they had to engineer a feedback carb with sensors and three cats to meet emissions; plus pay the gas guzzler tax. Compared to putting a throttle body injection on these cars. Anyway, on to putting the car back together.

 

[BudW]

Chrysler put throttle body fuel injection (and overdrive automatic transmissions) into the pickups and vans.
It was said Lee Iaccoca refused to put any (new) money into the M-body's and instead invest in the front wheel drive cars.
Fuel injection and O/Drive would have been a big hit for these cars as well as who knows what for upgrades for the older Chrysler products. Can you imagine a factory installed 360 Magnum police car M?

 

[LSM360]

Would've been great to have F.I. 360 or even 318 AHB's Bud! That's why I make my own

The first Y pipe I removed (PITA) the pre-cats rattled like crazy. Everything inside was a mess and loose.

 

[MoparDan]

Chrysler put throttle body fuel injection (and overdrive automatic transmissions) into the pickups and vans.
It was said Lee Iaccoca refused to put any (new) money into the M-body's and instead invest in the front wheel drive cars.
Fuel injection and O/Drive would have been a big hit for these cars as well as who knows what for upgrades for the older Chrysler products. Can you imagine a factory installed 360 Magnum police car M?

Probably just as well, my '86 600 had a factory throttle body and it was a headache... when it worked it worked good, but when it acted up anything could happen: once I started it and it reved so high it couldn't be driven, I tried turning it off and on it jumped up, I waited an hour, a day, two days it would just rev insanely high, and since it was throttle body there was no way to tune it down then a few days later it wouldn't start at all...I finally gave up and replaced it with an '87 Diplomat. At least you can adjust a carb, a throttle body nope!

 

[Mikes5thAve]

My 3 cats were still solid and trouble free when they were removed but don't know how much longer they would have been without air pump and a 360 belching thru them.

 

[Justwondering]

I have a friend of a friend of a friend who said he could do it when the weather cools down a bit.
I'm going with that solution as soon as I get through the next two weeks.
JW

 

[Bluejeansthe5th]

My 3 cats were still solid and trouble free when they were removed but don't know how much longer they would have been without air pump and a 360 belching thru them.

I'm thinking of not putting the belt back on the air pump when I get the car all back together. Just don't like that whirring. When I saw your post, it makes me wonder if not having the pump running could damage the cats, engine or affect the way the car runs. Do you (or anyone) have insight into that? Thanks!

 

[BudW]

makes me wonder if not having the pump running could damage the cats, engine or affect the way the car runs.

Nope.
The rear cat will work more efficiently if it has the extra air going to it, but a lack of air won't affect 'em.
Having the air pump (or not) will not make much difference on how car runs or fuel mileage - with the exception of the extra friction losses (drive belt and pump operation). I'm sure the extra weigth might have some effect and don't forget about the extra working space).

Contamination will damage 'em (excessive oil consumption, lead in gasoline, some gasoline additives (like cleaners), etc.)
I'm pretty sure my valve seals are shot and the excessive oil consumption is what built up 'em up to point of stoppage.
I'm not certain that Ethanol doesn't have some affect to our cars cats (contamination wise) - but not sure how it would.
Valve seals don't like a lot of heat and will break apart (shatter) over time. I need to re-seal both of my cars (including valve seals), as well as replace the timing chains. Afterwards, both should run for a long time (or until they get replaced with something much larger).

Going back to my statement at top of this post, I've kinda wondered if I made an under-car funnel with a valve on it, so driving at say 30 MPH or greater, the valve would open and airflow under car would allow air to the cat so it could do its job better. Then I thought about the work needed to make it and said forgetaboutit.
The air pump doesn't produce a lot of volume.
BudW

 

[beast340]

i remember taking off the exhaust system on my 88 fth ave i am selling here now, 2 cats, idk what chyrsler was thinking, along with the air pump and worthless lean burn crap. here in SC there is no vehicle inspection, so anything goes. if you wanted to have TTI make a custom SS system, with no cats. Yea that y pipe with the 2 cats was super tight

 

[Bluejeansthe5th]

I want to update all the folks that helped me with this project. The pipe is back in place. Not nearly as difficult as removing it. I did have to cut it behind the cat, as it was too heavy to maneuver under the car. I hope I can get one of those union type of pipes that goes in one part and over the other to repair it. Still have to put the accessories back and figure out where all these brackets go. I have a couple of pics on my phone. I just hope that oil and water do not spurt out of the car when it is started. Again, thanks for the help. You will be hearing more from me.