Firm Feel rear sway bar mounts

Aspen500

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From the photo in my memory, the brackets look exactly the same. It's the width that's most likely going to be the problem. I'm going to climb up and get the bar down tomorrow. It's really cold and to pull the stairs down, I need to back my Dakota out. Having said that, it'll bug me and I'll end up doing it this evening. :confused:
 

Camtron

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From the photo in my memory, the brackets look exactly the same. It's the width that's most likely going to be the problem. I'm going to climb up and get the bar down tomorrow. It's really cold and to pull the stairs down, I need to back my Dakota out. Having said that, it'll bug me and I'll end up doing it this evening. :confused:
Oh, oh yea, the width of the actual bar maybe a hiccup, for sure. But if the mounts fit, that’s still one less thing to have to buy and order to get it done...have a nice evening out there, lol
 

Aspen500

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Couldn't take it and went up to the attic for the sway bar. Added bonus, found the tape measure I've been looking for since last spring up there also. Won't know until I get the car in the air but,,,,,,,,,,preliminary measurements look like the frame brackets are in the right place and are the right size, and the bar length looks about perfect too. So, maybe..................... The bar and brackets will need a bunch of work to get smooth. It's not THAT rusty but is rusty enough.

I always thought there was more to doing iso delete for some reason. Looks like it's just removing the spring boxes and insulators and replacing them with plates under the springs basically(?) Don't mean to be hijacking your thread but you got my wheels turning now. :cool:
 
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Camtron

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Couldn't take it and went up to the attic for the sway bar. Added bonus, found the tape measure I've been looking for since last spring up there also. Won't know until I get the car in the air but,,,,,,,,,,preliminary measurements look like the frame brackets are in the right place and are the right size, and the bar length looks about perfect too. So, maybe..................... The bar and brackets will need a bunch of work to get smooth. It's not THAT rusty but is rusty enough.

I always thought there was more to doing iso delete for some reason. Looks like it's just removing the spring boxes and insulators and replacing them with plates under the springs basically(?) Don't mean to be hijacking your thread but you got my wheels turning now. :cool:
You got it. All the ISO delete is is getting rid of the box and bushing and replacing them with a flat plate. Easy as cutting metal pie.
 

kmccabe56

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Has anybody put a rear sway bar on a wagon? I happen to live near a fellow who was an F-body development engineer and I've had a chance to pick his brain a few times. I asked him about putting a rear bar on a wagon and he advised against. The reason? There's more mass behind the rear axle on a wagon (glass is heavier than steel) and he was concerned about snap oversteer?

Anybody?
 

Camtron

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Not first hand, but I do know it’s a pretty popular upgrade on Chevy Caprice wagons.
I just did a google search about it right now. There’s a lot of “Brand X” forums that come up with people talking about a rear sway bar being the difference between a wagon handling like a cumbersome wagon vs a sport sedan; and zero mention of snap steering.
I will say that since adding the rear sway bar onto my sedan, it feels like snap steering could be an issue with precipitation on the ground if I’m not paying enough attention...but to be fair and honest, I’m normally sliding turns and peeling out intentionally when there’s a little moisture on the ground anyway.
 

Aspen500

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There may be something to that. I know too large a rear bar (in relation to the front bar) can cause sudden unexpected oversteer. I remember that most sedans had a larger rear bar than wagons and on some wagons it wasn't even an option, where the sedan version it was an option, or standard. At least it was on Ford's anyways. (I was a Ford tech from 1986-2007).
 

Duke5A

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Your friend is correct, but there are other variables in play. Using a matched set of bars from a sedan in a wagon probably would cause snap steering issues if the rest of the body and suspension were more responsive. Factory, over-boosted and sloppy steering might not even be able to introduce changes suddenly enough into the body, which also has tons of twist in it, down to a suspension with hardly any spring rate to cause this. Stuff like this is less of an issue with a sloppy suspension and only presents itself the tighter you make the handling.

Honestly, I would give it a try and take it into a large empty parking lot and see what happens.
 

Aspen500

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I guess the trick is to not have too much rear bar, whether everything is stock or has been stiffened up with urethane bushings and k-frame insulators, larger dia front bar, sub frame connectors, etc. The snap oversteer is more a problem with solid axle cars than IRS. Too much bar and the inside tire will become unloaded, or leave the ground altogether. Happens on IRS also but not quite so severe. That said, in normal everyday driving, it probably isn't a huge concern.
 

Mikes5thAve

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Someone at Farley's years ago made the swap bar piece that could be welded to the factory bracket to match how the factory bar was installed on FMJs. If there's interest in it I can get a copy made of my factory one before I put it together.

I've always matched how factory did it.. if having a rear bar meant having a bigger front one that's what I aim for as well. It can drive better with a rear bar added but drive a lot better if the front one is changed too to match it. Or adding a rear but not touching the front has bad effects.
 

80mirada

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The E-body crowd used to snag F-body rear sway bars to upgrade the cars without. Firm Feels brackets are very nicely made, I tossed my home made ones after I saw them. Properly matching bar sizes to the weight distribution seems to be the thing that confuses most people. On a wagon I would have no qualms running the stock rear bar with any of the stock fronts, anything bigger in the back and you would need the larger front bar to go with it.
 

Aspen500

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the frame brackets and u-straps on my e-body bar are welded. To get them off would require a saw but, then the FF brackets could be used. I just want to use the bar I have if possible vs buying the FF bar because my cheapskate is kicking in, lol.
 

BudW

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I am getting on a small tangent - but wanted to speak up. A and E-body vehicles never had ISO clamps.
I don't think they ever put a factory rear sway bar on an A-body, either.
B-body went ISO in '73 (and also went to K-frame to frame rubber biscuits, which were also used on FMJ's). There were very few B-bodies made with rear (factory) sway bar before '71 (if any) - but after '71 became more common place.

Not sure about frame rail distances, but the differential spring mounting plates/perches have different width's, between the car lines:
A-body 43.0"
'87-96 Dakota 43.13"
'63-70 B-body 44.0"
FMJ-body 44.46"
'65-74 C-body 46.0"
'70-74 E-body 46.0"
'71-81 B/R-body 47.3"
'75-78 C-body 47.3"

I don't think it will affect operation much, but might wear out the end link bushings a tad faster if the sway bar end link eye-holes are wider than the spring plate eye-holes (causing the links to be at an angle vs. straight up).
That said, if welding on tab brackets onto your spring plates, then that difference will be minimal.
BudW
 

Cbodyuser

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The 1976 A-body police package cars often had a factory rear sway bar. 1969 B-body police cars sometimes had a factory rear sway bar (specified by Los Angeles police). Look it all up in the parts catalogs of the respective years.
 

Lightning II

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I wish FF would get going on the T Bars! That's the absolute last thing I need.
I've honestly given up hope on them ever making them. They've got the steel already made for them, but haven't bent them. They're too busy with steering boxes.
 

LSM360

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I've honestly given up hope on them ever making them. They've got the steel already made for them, but haven't bent them. They're too busy with steering boxes.
Haven't their steering boxes gained a bad reputation of late? Also, what a shame to let a market get away when they have the raw materials and customers chomping at the bit.
 

BudW

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Haven't their steering boxes gained a bad reputation of late? Also, what a shame to let a market get away when they have the raw materials and customers chomping at the bit.
I hadn't heard this before - but I also don't fequent other forum boards either.
 

80mirada

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Everybody seems to forget how small Firm Feel actually is. They are a tiny family operate. The steering boxes I have heard the most complaints about are Steer and Gear.
 
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