Fuel Delivery Issue - 87th FA - Saga

[Justwondering]

My 87 Fifth Avenue went into the mechanic for 'futzing' because I was having fuel problems.
(earlier this year).

This was the problem of me cracking the fuel pump and not using a wrench on it to tighten the line. Slight/slow leak and air getting into the lines. He replaced the fuel pump and rechecked the rest of my work.

I bring it home and we drive it occasionally but it seems to have a new shimmy in the front end.

Finally get schedules worked out to have someone follow me 45 miles to the nearest front end alignment folks. Swung by and filled it full with new, ethanol free gas. Got there, parked it, left the keys.

It wouldn't start the next day. I had lots of folks coming for visits this summer and eventually went back to get the dang thing a month later. Then it sat for another 2 weeks down at the family place.

I have checked the fuel (short lines) from the tank at the rear and they are good.
I have fuel to the fuel line up front.
I have fuel to the gas filter.
Replaced the gas filter (because I just did)
I have fuel out of the gas filter.

Darth Car helped me on my diagnosing by reminding me to check for gas at the carb.
I have fuel up to the carb.

No fuel in the carb.
Have spark, oxygen, and no fuel.
If I pour gas in the carb from above, it starts right up.

So today, I'm getting in the reman carb and will swap out the one on it.
I'll take pics.

My first car carb.... the excitement is high-level!!

JW

 

[Aspen500]

Sounds like the inlet needle is stuck in the needle seat. I've seen it happen, although very rarely. A mechanical pump is only about 4-7 psi which may not be enough to "break" the needle loose if it gets jammed or corroded.

So, what are you putting on for a carb, Holley 750 double pumper? I'm only kidding of course!

 

[Justwondering]

Oh Aspen500 --
you would have laughed your a$$ off watching me work on the carb day before yesterday.
I know I nearly did.

1. ... It rained, a lot and seemed like forever.

2. I finally went to town to pick up the new carb (replacement exactly like the old one)

3. Took many pictures so I could remember how everything went back

4. got to that little E-clip on the linkage and when it came off it headed for who knows where. Heard a PING and it was gone. Ricochet. Dang -- now I need one of those

5. Carb off and on the tailgate of the truck, getting hot, can't find the shade umbrellas (brother used them last), so I get this overly large piece of cardboard an lean it up against the car ... Goofy, only word that properly describes it. But it was shade.

6. Clean all the gunk off the top of the engine. All the little pieces of leaves, rats pills, dirt, acorn parts, etc. Yuck. All the while fantasizing I'll someday have a cement floor and covered building to work in.

7. Compare the old and new carb and there are fiddly bits that need to come off the old carb an go on to the new carb. No, I don't know the names. But its the chubby cylinder to the right that I think has something to do with idling, and an arm that holds linkages, as well as the bail at the top for the air handler pan to sit on.

8. Moved all the pieces over to the new carb.

9. End for the day to go fix dinner and get my chores done at home.

10. Fix breakfast for husband and head to get that e-clip at the farm co-op. Excellent.

11. Standing in front of the car again and comparing wires to the picture on my phone. After 20 minutes I FINALLY get the spade ends back into the plug. Really tight fit.

12. Go to plug the things in and guess what??? I had threaded all the spades in from the wrong end so I can't plug anything in. Jeeze. Did I even look at the picture??? Well yes, but only to see which wire goes where. Did I even notice I was doing it backwards?? Well no. Head Slap in frustration followed by much laughter.

13. Spend another 20 minutes trying to get the spade ends back out of the plug and I know you see this coming. I successfully removed the spade ends ---- and pulled the wire off one of them. Crappola.

14. Thats when I realized my problem. The original had two wires on a spade. The new set up has a separate spade for each wire. The necks are too large to get two in one plug 'bay'. Ugh.

15. Drive back to town to get new spade end. Of course, they don't carry them in stock so they are on order and I get to drive back again today to pick them up.

16. So far, I'll be into this for about 96 miles of driving with two trips to town.

17. Also have some strange rattle in the truck so I'll have to look at that. But while I was at the mechanic's I described everything to Mr. Blair. His solution??? I think he was channeling his inner Aspen500 ... 'Go get a hammer and tap it a couple of times. Needle is probably stuck'.

ROTFLMAO

JW

 

[Justwondering]

IT'S ALIVE!!!!

Amazing how much better it seems to run.
I'm going to take the old carb apart before I turn it back in for the core charge so I can try and figure out what's wrong with it.

JW

 

[Aspen500]

It's been awhile since you've written posts like these, and I missed them!

 

[Darth-Car]

That girl gets into stuff! ....But manages to find her way out.

 

[Justwondering]

Alright, who swiped my little cotter pins? Dang it.
Carb linkage has a temporary solution of metal clothes hanger wire, cause I cannot for the life of me find my little cotter pins NOR the extra e-clips.

I swear I put them in my pocket of my jeans (the little watch pocket up front) and they are no where to be found.

What was I thinking.... lets see, its hot, I'm sweating, I smell like OFF misquito spray, I'm ready for an ice cold drink... sure, lets put these tiny fiddly bits in my pocket and close everything up.

But my brain probably said ... but wait! You'll lose them. Don't put them in your pocket, you should put them ????? where? where did my brain tell me to put them??

Jeeze Louise.

JW

 

[Justwondering]

I have to get this finished and into the shop for a front end alignment, cause the Mister is weedeating around the dually. Next week is my 'pull the dually bed off and clean the gunk out of the diesel tanks honey-do'.

100 degree weather is supposed to break back down to the 90's.

JW

 

[Aspen500]

At least you didn't put the clips somewhere and then couldn't find them 10 seconds later,,,,,,,,,,,,not that I've ever done that

Worse. Story from a few year ago when I had the inside of my house torn to bits. I measured for a wall stud or some such thing, went to cut it and,,,,,,,,,,,where did I put the tape measure? I searched and searched and,,,,,WTF????? There it was, gone. Then I found it. Had it in my hand the whole time. Did I mention this was after working all day (at work) and then on the house in the evening, day after day, night after night, and it was now after midnight? Unplugged the tools, shut the lights off and went to bed. When you can't find something and you have it in your hand, that's a sign it's time to shut it down for the night!

 

[Justwondering]

SO FINALLY --- TODAY only 1 month and 5 days later ... The fifth avenue made it to the top of the list of projects! Yea.

Fixed breakfast for the Mister.
Brother drove me to the farm.
I popped the hood --- pulled out three glue traps.
One was full of leaves and bugs
One was full of lots of hair but no body
One was had a dead rat body.

5 more wires have their coating nibbled through.
I go over to the white barn and there is no sign of the electronics tool box.

Call my older brother..
'Where is the black and yellow toolbox for the electronics?'
--- "It should be in the barn"
'Yes, I know it should be in the barn, but it is not in the barn. Have you seen it?'
--- "Did you check the house?"
'No, I didnt check the house. It is supposed to be in the barn. There is already an electronics toolbox in the house.'
--- "Well, if its not in the barn and its not in the house, maybe its in the Green Dakota... or it might be in the Tahoe"
'Lets go to plan B. I'm not driving all over looking for the toolbox that is supposed to be returned after use to the white barn. Where is the extra black electrical tape?'
--- "Oh, thats in the barn. I put it back when I was finished"
'Again... listen carefully. Where Is The Extra Black Electrical Tape?'
--- "In the barn. Just open the door and look on the shelves."
'Any shelf in particular? There are two sets of shelves and 15 shelves in each set... any clue would help'

After finding the black tape..I put tape around each of the wires so I could be somewhat sure I wasn't going to start a fire.

And tested out the brakes since it hadn't been run in a month. A few squeaks later and I'm on my way with my younger brother following me.

45 miles of a comfortable seat, good driving, wind blowing with the window down, 70 degrees and a smile on my face.

Starts to rain a bit and I reach over to start the windshield wipers... Only the driver side sweeps. I laugh a bit and mentally remind myself to rehook the linkage so both sides work.

Two miles later, the engine dies. Starved for fuel.
I stop, put it in park and restart the engine.
It dies when I put it in drive.

This time, with force and persistent, I feather the pedal and keep it running.
It dies a few times on the last 2 miles to the front end alignment place and again in their driveway.

But it starts back up every time.

Ah well. I left it with the guy and told him either 1) pour some gas in the carb if it won't start or 2) call me back and I'll trailer it back home ...again.

Runs for nearly an hour, then dies as it gets closer to being left overnight in a different garage.

Oh Lordy...

Then I get to listen to my brother tell me I should get a different car. Its a lemon, why am I driving it, et cet er a, et cet er a, et cet er a .. to which I quit listening and start singing along with a great tune :



JW

 

[Aspen500]

This is a shot in the dark but, have you checked to see if the fuel tank is venting? If a vacuum builds up in the tank, the pump won't be able to overcome it. When it stalls, try loosening the gas cap and see if there's a big "WHOOSH" or not. As I said, just a shot in the dark but you never know...........

LOL, I knew a girl name Jenny back in high school (at the grocery store I worked at) and, ironically enough, her phone number was 675-5309

 

[Duke5A]

This is a shot in the dark but, have you checked to see if the fuel tank is venting? If a vacuum builds up in the tank, the pump won't be able to overcome it. When it stalls, try loosening the gas cap and see if there's a big "WHOOSH" or not. As I said, just a shot in the dark but you never know...........

LOL, I knew a girl name Jenny back in high school (at the grocery store I worked at) and, ironically enough, her phone number was 675-5309

The number 867-5309.

 

[Aspen500]

The number 867-5309.

Yes, I know but it was weird how close the numbers were.

 

[Justwondering]

I'm wondering if it is the gasket under the carb.
I'm going to check it when it returns. They had 8 cars in front of it last week so I won't see it until this week (fingers crossed).
JW

 

[Justwondering]

Today I was told the cost is $800 ....
Wheel bearings in front
control arms
tie rods
and labor.

One of the control arms is under warranty ... yea me.

So they are ordering parts today and I'm hoping to have it home next week.

JW

 

[Justwondering]

Control arms arrived and I took them over to the front end alignment folks.
They got everything installed.
BUT
can't get it to stay running long enough to align the front end.

Bursting with confidence, I drove over and took the carb back off... checked everything and reinstalled.
Poured gas in the carb .... started up and purred so pretty.

BUT
when the carb was empty it stopped.

So I'm back to fuel delivery issue. I'm thinking its a problem with the pickup in the tank.

So this week, I'll take 10 gallons of gas over and top off the tank. If it starts and stays running, i know its the in-tank pickup.
If it doesn't start, then I'll have the trailer on the back of the truck and I'll winch her back on the trailer to bring back home to my friend to help me fix the gas delivery issue.

Hoping to have it ready before my husband's birthday later this month... barring that, I still have time to get it fixed before Christmas.

Yo Ho Ho
JW

 

[Justwondering]

Car is over at the local mechanic now.
He's going to drop the tank. He has a great lift and said I could come watch.
So far, its been a long draw out affair.

JW

 

[Justwondering]

Well ... Mr. Blair called me today to say he figured out what was wrong with the Chrysler FA fuel delivery.

I was betting it was the sending unit tube in the tank.

WRONG.....

Turns out the vapor canister died and dumped its load of "bb's" into the line to the carb. Filled it up completely.
Would someone enlighten me about the vapor canister "bb's" ??

It gets an inspection tomorrow and then back over to the front end alignment folks to finish out that job.

jeeze
Now if I could just find the right M10 bolt for the golf cart.

JW

 

[Aspen500]

The "BB's" are basically charcoal particles to absorb the fuel vapors and then release them to be burned in the engine when it's in purge mode. I wonder how it all got in the actual fuel line, since the canister is only hooked to the vapor (vent) side of the system. Or did you maybe mean the bowl vent line or purge vacuum line is plugged? That would make more sense. My old D-150 did that, kept getting charcoal in the fuel bowl, which then would get in the idle passages and jets and cause all sorts of bad driveabilty issues. It should have been obvious to someone like me what was happening but it didn't dawn on me until I had the carb apart to clean it out, for about the 5th time A new canister fixed it right up. At that time you could still get new ones right from the dealer, now I don't know where to get one, other than used.

What happens is, the mesh that contains the charcoal ruptures and then it gets sucked right into the carb.

There are at least 3 different thread pitches for metric bolts. An M10 (10mm) could have 1.25 threads per mm, or 1.50 or 1.75 and some sized also have 2.0 threads per mm. Ain't metric grand? lol

 

[Justwondering]

I haven't seen the canister yet. I'll check it out tomorrow.
I'm confident I can rebuild it.
Just going by what the mechanic told me.

I'm going to pull the bolt from the other golf cart and hand carry it down to the co-op and stand there to match it as long as it takes. The guys will just have to deal with it.
They always clean up their language when I walk in, so I know they are probably glad when I leave so they can continue their 'gossip'.. lol

Have to get some of these projects finished. Deer season is about here (for adults anyway), and my extra time always seems to get sucked up when hunting season arrives.
JW