Gonna put a 4bbl on the '87 Gran Fury, how about the linkage?

Engines, Exhaust and Fuel Systems

  1. TylerW

    TylerW Member

    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2019
    Location:
    Southern Middle Tennessee
    Hey guys:
    New member here, although I have been around on the A-body forum a long time, and more recently on the C-forum. You may have seen me on Youtube.

    Anyway, I've had a clean, solid '87 GF for about a year that, although it's a civilian, looks like a plain white wrapper, lol. It's the usual 318 Lean Burn stuff that had a poorly working Holley 6280. In the last year I have cycled through a couple 2280's that I rebuilt along with a Carter BBD and they all have different problems. One Holley wouldn't run at part-throttle, the second one ran good but had a tip-in "sag", and the BBD won't idle well.

    So, I'm all done with 2bbls. Fortunately, due to my parts hording, I picked up a nice factory Dodge Quadrajet, and also a mid-70's iron 4bbl intake. I am going to need to swap the throttle rod parts from the carb down, it looks like.

    I have the '87 FSM and I thought I found a diagram that showed differences in all of the parts, but I haven't been able to locate it again. So, my question is this, finally:

    Can you tell me, in detail, what EXACTLY is different in the throttle rod/kickdown linkage between a 318 2bbl with 904, and a 318 with Quadrajet and 904? I've been down this road in the past, to the point I have a collection of the pivots that mount on the intake along with the upper rods that are directly moved by the carb arm. Pictures would be great.

    Thanks for the help!
     
  2. 89.Fifth

    89.Fifth Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    318
    Likes Received:
    68
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2015
    Location:
    New York, NY
    I can't tell you exactly what to get to make it work, but I can tell you that I reused all my old linkage except for making a custom throttle kickdown rod. I made it from 3/8" steel rod and with a propane torch and some bends it works great. Keeps the motion correct and makes up the height and angle difference. You do have to find a way to match it to your carb linkage.

    It's dark out now but I can take pics tomorrow and post them.
     
  3. Duke5A

    Duke5A Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    313
    Likes Received:
    93
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Location:
    Michigan
    Both the throttle cable and kickdown arm are longer on the 4bbl cars. It's been a long time, but I think I used a 4bbl cable from a truck and the for the arm I modified it. Chopped it in half, threaded it and used a turnbuckle with a couple jam nuts. Made for making adjustments on the kickdown simple as it could be done under the hood.

    This was all on my carbed small block though and don't have that setup anymore to take photos.
     
  4. Jonnyuma

    Jonnyuma Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    332
    Likes Received:
    70
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2011
    Location:
    A Dirty Little Town in NW Oregon
    Hmmmm... this may be why I could never get the TV adjusted properly on my 76 Cordoba after I went to a 4bbl. I made an adapter to get the throttle cable long enough, but never modified the TV rod.

    Any specifics on the mods necessary to get the right length? Best place to cut and add length? I assume it's after the last bend to horizontal, but how much length did you add?
     
  5. Duke5A

    Duke5A Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    313
    Likes Received:
    93
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Location:
    Michigan
    No idea on length. I went to a Lokar cable kit for the kickdown after I swapped the big block in. My Dad is still using that setup though. I'll ask him.
     
  6. Gadsden

    Gadsden Member

    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    Location:
    West Virginia


    I put a 360 4 bbl 360 on my Mirada, had to lengthen the kick down by measuring the stock distance between the carb and the stock 2bbl mount, then welded a 3/8 dia. rod to lengthen it and ground the welds to help look stock. I used the 360 kick down mount plus modified the stock 2 bbl cable holder that bolts to the intake to make everything work with the stock cable. looks decent but a knowledgeable person would know.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  7. BudW

    BudW Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    3,417
    Likes Received:
    915
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2012
    Location:
    Oklahoma City
    Two major areas, and a couple minor areas, to keep in mind.
    - The pivot point for the 2-bbl carburetor is father back than it is for a 4-bbl. Also, the throttle cable/kickdown linkage attachment point on carburetor father forward and father outward for 4-bbls.

    I believe the kickdown linkage is a bit more than 1 inch longer and a bit more than 1 inch more outboard (closer to on top of the driver’s valve cover.
    The throttle cable is about ¾” longer – mainly because the curves it needs to bend are lessened vs. the 2-bbl variant.
    Pioneer # CA-8422 / ATP # Y-160 cables will work.

    e55thermoquadtop.jpg
    This is a Thermoquad with 3-piece linkage. The EGR valve is completely hidden. You will see the throttle cable attaches above the valve cover gasket (area) and the kickdown linkage is about even with the top corner of the valve cover. Not shown is the linkage bellcrank. A person can bend the intake bracket to match this and can bend the cruise bracket to work as well (to almost straight), if using cruise.



    - If you have access to steel rod and tools to bend it – then great, make (or modify) your own kickdown linkage.
    4-bbl kickdown linkage setups are quite expensive for used or for repops.
    Beware of used setups – for several people has not gotten the correct parts and seller left town. If you know what to look for – you can avoid headaches – but I’ve seen setups with small block and big block parts mixed in – so just beware on used setups.

    Chrysler has used two different setups for 4-bbls – what I refer to 1-piece setups and 3-piece setups.
    The 3-piece setup has two bellcranks, one at top corner of intake and another bellcrank on transmission bellhousing. A 3-piece setup will work for all Chrysler products (that came with V-8’s). The 1-piece setup uses a single rod, about four-foot-long that attaches to a carburetor link and attaches to the transmission. I have seen a few FMJ (and A-body’s) that can use a 1-piece setup (mainly due to production tolerances set just right), but the other 98% of us, the 1-piece rod will hit the firewall before allowing WOT (Wide Open Throttle). All A and FMJ cars came from factory with 3-piece kickdown setups.

    Chrysler also changed the setups slightly every 2 to 3 years making it hard to mix and match parts. Some years had 3/8” rods, other years had 5/16” rods (most use 5/16” rods), also other changes through the years makes it difficult to find a complete workable setup. That said, any year small block 4-bbl (complete) setup will work from ’67 to 89 – except for the transmission type.

    To make things more difficult, the bellhousing bellcrank mounting point is about 2” (or so) more outboard on 727 vs. the 904/998/999 transmissions are (because of the larger diameter torque converters). That difference makes the downward rod and transmission arm rod shaped differently and different length between those transmission size types (727 vs. 904/998/999).

    If you already have a small block 4-bbl kickdown linkage setup – then great, use it. If not – I highly recommend going with a Lokar cable setup and just be rid of that headache altogether.



    Other items to keep in mind:
    A person can use the existing (2-bbl) cruise control cable clamp – but a 4-bbl cruise control cable clamp works better for 4-bbl’s (if using cruise, that is).

    If using A/C and if using the aluminum C-171 A/C compressor – be sure to use an intake with the offset (to driver’s side) thermostat boss (OE or aftermarket intake).
    2176 Performer.jpg
    Edelbrock 2176 shown.
    The offset thermostat intake uses a smaller thermostat housing (the above intake can use either size thermostat housing).

    If not using A/C or using the cast iron RV2 A/C compressor, either intake design will work (which has the thermostat boss centered on intake).
    LD340 Edelbrock.jpg


    318 intake ports are smaller than 340/360 intake ports are. You “can” use a large port intake on a 318 – but the port will be stair-stepped. Edelbrock Performer # 2176 (w/EGR # is 3776) is a compromise intake. The intake port looks like this:
    Performer 2176.3776.png
    The step/ramp can be easily ported out to a 340/360 port size and the cast-in 318 port “step” is minimal.
    Red/Blue is "340/360" port size, Green is "318" port size. The Performer has the Orange step, not far from intake gasket surface that can be ported out (if using 340/360 heads).

    i hope this helps.
    BudW
     
  8. TylerW

    TylerW Member

    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2019
    Location:
    Southern Middle Tennessee
    It does, thank you very much!