Holley VS Carter.

[lowbudget]

I have a Holley 2280 I was going to rebuild and use on my 5th Avenue lean burn conversion. I just picked up a NOS 1976 Carter BBD 318 carb for 38.95 So what do you think I should use? If I remember right the Carter gave better performance and the Holley gave better MPG.....Decisions decisions.

 

[NoCar340]

I don't think you'll see a huge gain in either department with one carb over the other, really. They're very similar overall. I think I'd probably rather use the NOS carb because the hard parts have no wear (throttle shaft, linkages, etc.). That being said, I would not attempt to run it without replacing the gaskets and other soft items. It's been sitting nearly 40 years; things dry out, stick together, etc. Although there's no guarantee you'll get them, most carb kits available now have gaskets, pump diaphragms, and other consumables that are more resistant to the evils of today's fuel. It's a lock that the original parts from 1976 will not last long in the witch's brew currently being sold as "gasoline".

 

[Jack Meoff]

I don't think you'll see a huge gain in either department with one carb over the other, really. They're very similar overall. I think I'd probably rather use the NOS carb because the hard parts have no wear (throttle shaft, linkages, etc.). That being said, I would not attempt to run it without replacing the gaskets and other soft items. It's been sitting nearly 40 years; things dry out, stick together, etc. Although there's no guarantee you'll get them, most carb kits available now have gaskets, pump diaphragms, and other consumables that are more resistant to the evils of today's fuel. It's a lock that the original parts from 1976 will not last long in the witch's brew currently being sold as "gasoline".

NoCar....have you heard of these daytona parts kits?
Saw them on Leno's garage...

http://www.daytonaparts.com/

 

[NoCar340]

Nope, I had not seen those. I bet they sell at a premium, though, and as I said unless it's been sitting on a shelf a long time, the carb kit you're likely to get today will have the same ethanol-resistant parts in it. Maybe the Daytona kits are better. My guess, though, is that they're not a manufacturer and are just sourcing their parts from existing supply chains already in use by Standard, Holley, and BWD among others.

When getting parts for the fuel system for the Imperial, I made sure everything was rated for E85. Worst-case scenario, I could run on it... or best-case scenario, I guess, with a little reprogramming of the fuel/spark tables and a toggle switch to jog between settings. E85 is great for power, especially with forced induction. That is, if you don't mind how fast your engine has to drink it to do so. To run it with a carb, you're looking at a complete change of carb & distributor tune, including much-richer jetting and a much-more aggressive spark curve and total advance.

 

[Jack Meoff]

Nope, I had not seen those..

Here's what I watched for your viewing pleasure.
You'd know better than I if they're any good.

http://youtu.be/j3YoHOodWHc

 

[Jack Meoff]

These Daytona kits are apparently ethanol resistant to boot.

 

[lowbudget]

Thanks for the info. Slant Six Dan was bragging them up on the slant website.

 

[NoCar340]

These Daytona kits are apparently ethanol resistant to boot.

As are most current carb kits. The problem lies with whether the one you get has been sitting on a warehouse shelf for several years.

 

[Jack Meoff]

As are most current carb kits. The problem lies with whether the one you get has been sitting on a warehouse shelf for several years.

That's why this caught my attention.
Apparently these guys are making these kits in the states new.

 

[NoCar340]

See my previous post about using existing supply chains. It looks like they have their own needle & seat design and that's about it. I found the explanations of the "failings" of the older design pretty humorous. Good commercial, though... well-thought-out P.T. Barnum-esque explanation of why "different is gooder" starting with the flawed cross-sectional drawing of the well-proven pintle valve design.

Just for giggles, though, I went down and looked at my BWD ThermoQuad kit & floats, which sat around a warehouse for quite awhile before I ordered them. Ethanol-resistant (orange w/blue diaphragm) accelerator pump tells me the kit was made sometime in the last 10-12 years and that the rest of the parts are of the same quality. The needles & seats are the proven, superior all-brass pintle design. That kit cost me $27 and the (brass) floats were $7 each; all three packages are clearly marked "Made in USA". I'd be interested to see how much the Daytona stuff costs by comparison.

 

[Jack Meoff]

I guess I've long since hijacked this thread but I figured the original question was answered which is why I did....
I agree...a fairly infomercial-esque schpiel.
Even Jay doesn't look convinced...
I'm just always looking for new non asian routes for parts.
Sure would be nice if we weren't stuck looking for descent old stuff since the only new stuff available is asian made garbage with virtually no QC to speak of.
Everyday it gets harder....and with the newly formulated pathetic excuse for gasoline it adds an extra level of difficulty to keep out oldies running right.
Purposely so I'm sure....

 

[lowbudget]

I will tell you when I get my estimate back from them. It's pretty scary when you have to send info in before you get a price.....Maybe they need to run a credit check......

 

[lowbudget]

$38.00 plus $8.00 shipping for a BBD kit. I usually use Carburetor-parts.com/Mikes Carburetor and they are $30.95 for a BBD kit. Maybe I'll shoot Mike's an e-mail and ask about ethanol compatibility and place of manufacture.

 

[lowbudget]

Here is the reply Mike's sent me: Subject: Carb kit question

Our carb kits are US manufactured, they are all "ethanol compatible" but unfortunately that doesn't mean much with todays gas. We always recommend using Startron additive which you should be able to purchase at a local auto parts dealer but we do offer it here as well.

Sincerely,
Mike's Carburetor Parts

 

[Jack Meoff]

Here is the reply Mike's sent me: Subject: Carb kit question

Our carb kits are US manufactured, they are all "ethanol compatible" but unfortunately that doesn't mean much with todays gas. We always recommend using Startron additive which you should be able to purchase at a local auto parts dealer but we do offer it here as well.

Sincerely,
Mike's Carburetor Parts

Sta Bil is good too and widely available.
Bloody ethanol.....I despise that crap.

 

[lowbudget]

Here is a good link to find |"pure" premium http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=ON I talked with an old cowboy at the airport and he has a clear container with a petcock in it. He would toss a qt of water in his gas, let the ethanol grab the water and drain the water off. This was for his chain saws and such.

 

[My imp]

Ethanol: legal drinking & driving! When prepping a TQ for rebuild, don't bead blast or wire wheel the throttle shafts. That is a Teflon coating, which if intact, will offer some resistance to the corn squeezin's you're feeding your engine. Too bad the same cant be said for the rest of the fuel system.

 

[Jack Meoff]

Here is a good link to find |"pure" premium http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=ON I talked with an old cowboy at the airport and he has a clear container with a petcock in it. He would toss a qt of water in his gas, let the ethanol grab the water and drain the water off. This was for his chain saws and such.

Here's a little home test a member at the Aspen and Volare site posted.

buy a graduated glass cylinder (like from science class) that measures more than 200mL.
go to the gas station u wanna test with a gas can and fill it with some gas.
once home, to make things simple, fill the graduated cylinder up to 70mL with gas.
Then, fill up to the 100mL mark with water.*
Shake well, or until the fuel is mixed with the water.*
set it back down and allow to separate, fuel and water dont mix well and will separate.
once it separates, look at the separation line. What isnt water and isnt gas is alcohol(ethanol)
If there is any more than a 10mL amount of ethanol in the mixture, dont use the fuel.
The mix can vary greatly from station to station. Some had as low as 4% and others as high as 14%

 

[76volareman]

i really like the bbd's from the mid 70's that you can adjust the main metering hanger for mixture externally. nice to be able to tune easily.