Just Another Newbie

[fantum]

Hello all.

My name is Mike and I own a '77 Aspen wagon that is going for some major body work as soon as my '73 Duster gets out of the body shop. The "Green Machine" has been laid up for a while due to a bad water pump, radiator, and my desire to install a new A/C system. Yes, I have let her get infected with body cancer and for that I should go to Aspen hell! But, life got in the way. Now, I'm retired and getting time to rectify the errors of my ways. She will stay green (inside and out), but should see suspension, wheel/tire, and electrical upgrades. I will need some assistance finding a new grill, dashpad, a pillar trim pieces and front amber lenses - just to name a few. AND, what I really need to find soon is replacement glass rubber. All of mine are dried up and cracking and I would like to remove the glass when it gets repainted.

Additionally, while I own a Duster and a '70 Cuda (in body shop hell in El Paso - and I live in Miami - if anyone would be so kind to help here) I am not familiar with the front suspension on these cars. So, any recommendations here would be greatly appreciated. Also, if anyone has a dash for an Aspen with A/C they would like to part with, please let me know.

I only have one picture, which is attached. Stay tuned for the thread when she goes into the body shop.

Thanks for letting me be a part of your fine community and I will be reading your threads with great interest to get ideas for how to proceed with this build.


MIKE

P.S. Please disregard the blasphemous Toyota in the background. My better half will not own anything but Toyotas - no matter how hard I try to change her perspective.
fantum

 

[Justwondering]

Welcome ...
Thats a head turner for sure!

JW

 

[Duke5A]

What's the end goal for the car? Plenty of aftermarket support for the suspension components, but it is pricey.

 

[fantum]

I really haven't come up with a plan yet. It has a 318 with a 4-barrel (the 2-barrel died and it was cheaper to use an old 4-barrel intake with an Edelbrock carb we had on the shelf) and dual exhaust through original exhaust manifolds. I've been toying around with the idea of putting in a 5.7 Hemi I have sitting on the floor (it needs a rebuild) and either strengthening the internals of the 904 or finding a small-block 727.

I want the car to handle better than it did when the water pump died and to that end, I'd love to hear what you guys/gals recommend. If available, I might look at something like a Reilly's modification. On this subject, with these cars, I'm very much a fish out of water and hope to rely heavily on your experiences.

Like I said, I plan to stick with the current color combination, but who knows ..... Living down in Miami, A/C is a must and tinted windows go a long way to keeping the temperatures inside the car more tolerable.

I haven't decided on the wheels yet. Kinda running the gamut between steel wheels with small lug nut covers to something after market. I'm not going too big as I do not care for the look - probably something in the 15" - 17" range (also considering the cost of replacement rubber when making this decision).

I want a comfortable driver I can take to shows on occasion that has the ability to get out of its own way - quickly - and look good doing it.

That's it for the time being. I'll be providing more input later when she starts getting her cancer treatments.


MIKE
fantum

 

[Joe12459]

That 5.7 hemi would be right at home in that car!

 

[fantum]

That's what I was thinking. Would be a real sleeper - shock a few people.

 

[Joe12459]

That's what I was thinking. Would be a real sleeper - shock a few people.

That would be awesome!

 

[Duke5A]

Suspension wise, I'd do this:

1) Frame ties - tie the front and rear sub frames together. It is unbelievable the amount of rigidity it adds to these cars and tightening the suspension without them is moot. Don't go through the floors. Under them is fine for a street car.

2) Six leaf rear springs

3) Firm Feel 300# torsion bars - the front springs are easily the weakest part of the entire suspension. We were boned until Firm Feel started producing new higher rate bars. It effectively doubles the spring rate with the factory being around 140#. Call FF and get in on the order while you can.

4) Borgeson steering box - firm the steering, eliminate the 12 o' clock slop and increase the ratio all in one box. It's like driving a modern car.

5) Poly bushing on the sway bars. Everything else rubber!

6) Keep the tires 15"

7) Sway bars is tricky. With the added weight on the back the typical front to rear ratio of 1 1/8" to 3/4" for cop car sedans is out the window. You would probably need a 1" out back. Talk to Firm Feel.

This stuff adds up quick. I've got all of these of parts on my car and then some. If you toss out a budget you had in mind I could make recommendations more suited to it.

 

[fantum]

I was planning on using frame connectors. I'm currently putting USCT's Stage II system in my Duster as I realize the age of the steel and added torque will play havoc on the torsional rigidity of the unibody (and I'm pretty sure the engineers weren't as concerned about the torque in 1977 as they were for earlier year, higher performance cars).

I have a few questions.

1. Does anyone make an AlterKtion type front suspension? I think that would go a long way when addressing the suspension in these cars.

2. Why keep the tires 15"? Is your recommendation performance or aesthetic related?

I hadn't thought about a budget, but I'd look at about $2500 - $3000 for stock upgrades, and if an alternative - such as an AlterKtion package - were to be on the table I would probably consider spending more.

 

[Duke5A]

My car has a very stiff suspension on it. Ride quality was fine with 15" tires and went to 18" in preparation for a 13" rotor with Viper brakes. Ride went to complete pot. It'll throw you into the door though before breaking traction on tight turns though. You might be able to find something in 16" or even 17" that won't make the ride as bad as mine, but the 15" BFG I had on the car with all the aforementioned upgrades it still handled great.

Someone does make a drop-in cradle for these cars. I forget who. With all the options though it was coming in at $6k or about. We have a member here running one he used on a 5.7 Hemi swap in a Mirada. Maybe he'll chime in.

 

[Joe12459]

I was planning on using frame connectors. I'm currently putting USCT's Stage II system in my Duster as I realize the age of the steel and added torque will play havoc on the torsional rigidity of the unibody (and I'm pretty sure the engineers weren't as concerned about the torque in 1977 as they were for earlier year, higher performance cars).

I have a few questions.

1. Does anyone make an AlterKtion type front suspension? I think that would go a long way when addressing the suspension in these cars.

2. Why keep the tires 15"? Is your recommendation performance or aesthetic related?

I hadn't thought about a budget, but I'd look at about $2500 - $3000 for stock upgrades, and if an alternative - such as an AlterKtion package - were to be on the table I would probably consider spending more.

I have the AlterKtion front suspension on my Hemi Mirada, and it handles incredibly. That said, I've been told they no longer offer it for FMJ. Magnum force makes a front setup, but I don't know much about it. 15" wheels definitely look good on these cars, but if you want to run bigger brakes, you'll likely have to run 17" or better.

 

[Aspen500]

Other than the transverse torsion bars, the front suspension isn't much different from an A, B, or E body. I've seen a lot of not so good reviews of Magnum Force so, be careful.

ABCMoparts makes repop dash pads with core exchange. Only have black and red though so, would need dyed to match your interior.

A good mod for handling is to replace the rubber k-frame isolators with poly cushions. Usually not listed for f-body but the '73 and up b-body ones are exactly the same as f-body.

In the rear, unless doing an iso-delete, suggest replacing the rubber mounting pads with poly ones. Getting springs with a round front spring eye, vs the original oval, will help too, along with poly shackle bushings.

Depending on your intentions, sub frame connectors make a big difference by reducing chassis flex. Better handling and really cuts down on the chance of squeaks and rattles as a bonus.

 

[armataz]

the dash pad on the volare/aspen is really simple to wrap because there is not a lot of complex folds to try to stretch. I redid one in leather. just need a heat gun to remove the old vinyl. contact cement and patience.
I also redid 1 in fiber glass, using an old polyester blanket as the material for the resin. sanded it down and painted it along with the metal dash section.

 

[armataz]

I was planning on using frame connectors. I'm currently putting USCT's Stage II system in my Duster as I realize the age of the steel and added torque will play havoc on the torsional rigidity of the unibody (and I'm pretty sure the engineers weren't as concerned about the torque in 1977 as they were for earlier year, higher performance cars).

I have a few questions.

1. Does anyone make an AlterKtion type front suspension? I think that would go a long way when addressing the suspension in these cars.

2. Why keep the tires 15"? Is your recommendation performance or aesthetic related?

I hadn't thought about a budget, but I'd look at about $2500 - $3000 for stock upgrades, and if an alternative - such as an AlterKtion package - were to be on the table I would probably consider spending more.

you have to be really careful going with larger rims because of the back spacing and front wheel stops. when I bought my aspen wagon it had 18's on it and the tires chirped the wheel wells in back . larger rims also wear out the breaks faster.
but personally I just like the looks of the 14's, 15's just cuzz I like to have a side wall to my tire.

 

[fantum]

Thanks.

I was considering going a little larger for better brakes and (what I'm told by my Goodyear manager friend) better tire options. I like to see more rubber too, but I prefer being able to stop to the more aesthetically pleasing smaller rims.

Regarding the dash, how did you get around folds and creases? Does the leather stretch that much?


MIKE
fantum

 

[armataz]

Thanks.

I was considering going a little larger for better brakes and (what I'm told by my Goodyear manager friend) better tire options. I like to see more rubber too, but I prefer being able to stop to the more aesthetically pleasing smaller rims.

Regarding the dash, how did you get around folds and creases? Does the leather stretch that much?


MIKE
fantum

I guess it depends on what you want. bigger rims will let you use bigger breaks (but they also carry more momentum because they are heavier)
I use my aspen wagon as my work truck, I use semi metalic pads, and I have no problems stopping even pulling a trailer of rock.
the better quality pad you use ,the better you will stop.
kinda important to remember, some times them wheel and tire folks are just pushing to up sell you. because they make bank on the commissions.

with the leather on the dash , It has some give to it so it will stretch. the better quality he leather the easier it is to work with. I used a goat skin for mine. I am lucky to have a local leather craft shop that has bulk scrap yardage. in just about every color and shade you can think of.
do the flat top first and let it dry that way it pretty much stays in place while you work the rest of it . then do the horn(the center of the dash that protrudes) and glue it down. then slowly work back from there keeping the leather pulled tight as you go. the slower you go, the more it will stretch and smooth out do not glue untill you are happy with the fit go section by section, and take your time.

 

[fantum]

Good things to consider. My friend at Goodyear is a friend first, store manager second, so I don't feel he was trying to up-sell me.

I don't know of any local leather craft shops here in Miami, so if future searches are fruitless I may ask for information about your supplier.

 

[Duke5A]

you have to be really careful going with larger rims because of the back spacing and front wheel stops. when I bought my aspen wagon it had 18's on it and the tires chirped the wheel wells in back . larger rims also wear out the breaks faster.
but personally I just like the looks of the 14's, 15's just cuzz I like to have a side wall to my tire.

This is my setup with 18" wheels and 11.75" rotors. Used 4 piston Wilwood calipers on AR Engineering brackets. Pretty light setup and it's supposed to fit inside a 15" wheel, but I've never tried.

I ran the 11.75" rotors with the factory slider calipers for a season and by themselves it made a noticeable difference in stopping power. My issue with the factory calipers was a pad chatter. You can't get them stay quiet and it made a hell of a rattle going over bumps. Sounded horrible. The Wilwoods completely solved that.

Original idea with the 18" wheels was I was going to run 13" rotors with Brembo calipers. When the time came I couldn't justify the $2k for front brakes. This setup I've got about $1k into.

 

[armataz]

This is my setup with 18" wheels and 11.75" rotors. Used 4 piston Wilwood calipers on AR Engineering brackets. Pretty light setup and it's supposed to fit inside a 15" wheel, but I've never tried.

I ran the 11.75" rotors with the factory slider calipers for a season and by themselves it made a noticeable difference in stopping power. My issue with the factory calipers was a pad chatter. You can't get them stay quiet and it made a hell of a rattle going over bumps. Sounded horrible. The Wilwoods completely solved that.

Original idea with the 18" wheels was I was going to run 13" rotors with Brembo calipers. When the time came I couldn't justify the $2k for front brakes. This setup I've got about $1k into.

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hmm?? well like I said in my second post, it depends on what you want.
I have the 11" front rotor with rear drums. and I'm running 14 X 8's on the wagon so 15's should not be a problem with 11.75's. unless the thicker caliper gets in the way.
up grading to a 4 piston set up , would more evenly apply pressure to the pads.
dont get my wrong about that. if you want to get tossed forward in your seat in a hurry. these will do the trick.
especially if you do all 4 corners.
I may eventually go this route with my wagon too. but right now I'm not having a problem just by upgrading my pads N shoes.
I was just saying to check into your options, and know what your needs/wants are to see the best way to balance them.
dont just rely on what a sales man suggests.
the man I bought the wagon from, tossed a set of 18's with a ford back space and used a set of spacers. to fill the wheel wells.
it was his grand ma's car that he found in her garage after she passed. and he just wanted to sell it. he dint care that they dint fit properly, or that it also reduced the turn radius.

 

[armataz]

Good things to consider. My friend at Goodyear is a friend first, store manager second, so I don't feel he was trying to up-sell me.

I don't know of any local leather craft shops here in Miami, so if future searches are fruitless I may ask for information about your supplier.

here is a place that popped up
Miami leather supplies
2757 W Flagler St, Miami, FL 33135
(305) 541-1300
miamileathersupplies.com

you can also buy new vinyl from an upholstery /fabric shop..