Kit car?

XfbodyX

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I remember just sucks to do twice but it is what it is.
 
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kmccabe56

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Can you post some factual info on this body frame date term? I ask because I seen you used that term years ago on the C body site however when asked further then about that term/words you never followed up with a concrete reply.
Years ago, I was discussing the "date" that shows up on a fender tag and referred to it as the "build date". The fellow from Chrysler I was talking with jumped all over me and emphatically indicated that the "date" on the fender tag was the Body Frame Date and not the build date. Now here's where things can get even more muddied. The vin and the fender tag are put on the body shell as soon as it comes out of the body shop. Just because it has come out of the body shop doesn't mean it's going to continued on down the line. There might be options to be installed on the car that the plant doesn't have, or there could be something to be installed on the car that requires extra labor. There are more reasons than you can shake a stick at to see a difference between the "date" on the fender tag and when the car actually continues down the line to be built. In the case of the "kit cars", they were multi-color which meant multiple trips through the paint shop. That's extra time, extra labor and if the plant had a rush order, or was somehow behind on production, they'd concentrate on getting on the maximum number of cars possible to make up any shortfall. Stuff like Kit Cars would get rescheduled/postponed within the plant. The only document that comes to mind that shows the recorded build date of a car is the shipping invoice. This is not quite the same as the window sticker as it isn't as colorful. I don't believe the window sticker shows the build date. Cars that show an MDH date (Month/Day/Hour) indicate when the car was finished or at the end of the assembly line. Cars with a month/year shown on the door label aren't all that useful.

So, getting back to your question, I don't have a single scrap of paper to positively identify the definition of Body Frame Date. All I have is what I was told by an employee of Chrysler who knew what he was talking about. Years ago I had a number of contacts within Chrysler that I could call or visit periodically who appreciated my interest in the inner workings of the Corporation and were good enough to take the time to educate me. Like me, they've all retired and the new order at Chrysler doesn't want to know me.

I've followed some of your postings on build dates, production and so forth and you seem to be on the right track with a lot of it. I'll try and keep an eye out for topics you bring up and see what I can add to your efforts.
 

XfbodyX

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Thanks for posting a complete reply.

Here is my take and again its just my opinion..... remember my opinion so go with that.

The normal F-s are semi simple and basic, most have the door tag within a few days of the tag date. I place high value on the MDH portion of the fed door sticker as it was/is required to be placed on the car at the time of completion. We can only hope this was done at a consistent time with all. And the ones for the kits reflect added build time of some over 5 weeks.

I like the dictionary term commonality... the state of sharing features or attributes.

So I try to look at things we can find on each car. If nothing else the vin, then the fender tag and then the MDH on the fed door tag in hopes things were done consistently.

So say we have two cars, we look at the vins, they are in sequence in this case lets use the late 7/17 batch and a couple of the higher end of the vins, the 928 929 cars as they are both 7/17 and have equally order numbers in sequence.

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So with these alone and nothing else one would think 928 earlier then the 929 car later. Although these two cars show on the door stickers the same completion date (not 7/17) and the 929 later in hour. So to me just going by vin if its all we had was clearly the 929 car built later. Per the door the 929 car is later. Knowing the normal F-s even the A57/A66 non T cars having the dated MDH within the normal few days of each other and the kits with some five weeks or less from the tags date.

So for the people who just go by vins and dont care to look further they are closer to being numerically correct then most think at least from the info I have. Now for the ones who have say semi equal cars like the two tags above want to go further the MDH at least to me tells alot if all things are equal and again we can only hope most are. So what if the MDH on the higher vin showed it was built before the lower? To me its about the criteria ones use and what most accept.

927,926,925 are all about the same cars. But now these two here both in the 7/17 group.. all these four show completed in a five week span (per the door sticker) but we know by the vins being so close if they were normal line cars the SPD difference to MDH date would be very very close vs 5 weeks apart. So on these this is why for me the MDH is important by what it reflects in the timeline of the lits and how it is very different then std. F-s. This is simply going by things we can find on each car... the more vins, tags, door stickers in the picture the easier the pattern is seen.

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I know there are much smaller factors that could be included but are they easily found with each car to make the determination based on equal info. So for me I can only go on what we have on hand that cars have, all have the vin, most the FT and a good many the door sticker.

The base kits were much alike as most know, ac, non ac.... and the only real kicker is the seat/console cars. Take them away and the kits seem to be no more then simple E58 coupes two tone paint break cars. Looking at non kit paint break cars... I use paint break from the description on the decals used like below and have noticed common paint break cars dont have any more lag time on the MDH part then normal single color F-s and that supports the MDH part at completion. Ive a few pics of some masking going on and wow, we truly do better today as its just a few workers with roles of tape and paper in a hurry.
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I know of at least two export kits and for some reason Canada dont seem to be considered export. Not sure about the early mopars with the basic door stickers but the Fs and others of the mid 70s share a good bit of info. At a glance a export car tells it on the door sticker, maybe for the ease of shipping and paperwork to id them? not sure but there is below and on every international export car.

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Then the simple obvious "Built for Export" sticker on the body just below the top drivers side door hinge. But add on the many fonts for the tags, even different fonts on tags for cars built the same day, easy to explain though to the many fonts on the Fed door stickers.

In trying to get the font right on one of my cars a 76 with the maker of them in an odd way I found that in late of Dec 75 they change the basic form by one letter so I ended up with 3 but only one correct to match my old door tag pic. Here are two of the possible fonts look at the 3,5,9, ect.. and look at the upper left top corner MFG vs MFD which I found then further researched by helping a friend with a restored F but when his was done the door tag was correct but wrong in many ways in the basic form. No ones fault as it was good for the time period, ecs does a really good job on these.

The center one now being right for my car and on it now. The great thing about ECS is with a pic they can put the right font and if the type is not perfect they can match that as well so things dont look overly correct/perfect.

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Things have not changed much.
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My main focus is the 76 77 cars but I got all this semi decent info on the kits and sc cars so I try to keep up.

Id love to post a to post more in the open but id say 30% or better of the info comes from owners and the only way I get it is I agree to never post there info on the open web, some dont mind, some really do. So many bots, scrapers, apps to collect links and picks from websites are so common then things end up on vague websites like allpar for example and many more generic ones so whats one to do?

So even trying to keep it simple at times dont seem simple. But as far as first/last on the kits, is it ever really going to make a difference anyways other then the cool factor? Even with the most rare high dollar mopars how much significance is placed in a monetary on first vs last vs middle run?

But anyway imo the more we can kick topics around and get different opinions and views and I always hope factual info like FT, door tags, ect that can all add to the big picture is how we can get things as accurate as possible and even then there will be the one odd one that pops up that makes no sense of and can not be explained but most can.

Im sure ive 100 things wrong here but the coffee is wearing off so im fizzeled out for now. Its even hard for me to read this over and I wrote it.... BLAH!
 
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Mikesteer

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The build date on my car is the same as Jacks car, his was built 2 hours before mine and the VIN numbers are 5 numbers apart with mine being the higher number, I would say the numbers are kind of sequential with the cars being built first had a lower number VIN but not all in a row, if that helps
 

XfbodyX

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I would say the numbers are kind of sequential with the cars being built first had a lower number VIN but not all in a row.

That seems to be the case with most mopars unless something prevented that certain car from being produced with the rest but there are some kits that per the door MDH got ahead of others with a higher vin and the export kits were clearly set aside.

The 7/17 seems to be the most consistent group but the vin seq seems to be a easy general way unless someone is trying to really dig deep and prove a point.



Is your car the one in the crazy car lot vid on youtube?
 
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Mikesteer

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I am gonna say no on the video, but I am looking to find the video for sure. As far as what day the first and last was produced would take some time finding all out there to create a list and even then you will miss some
 

XfbodyX

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I looked for the vid but couldnt find it so none the less probably cut from you tube like they do for low traffic vids that have been up for a while.



As far as what day the first and last was produced would take some time finding all out there to create a list and even then you will miss some.

Actually its much easier then that. But anything I post after that will piss off one of two groups so its best to say nothing.
 
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