Lean Burn Delete...Starter Auto Engage?

rodrju

Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2024
Messages
20
Reaction score
8
Location
pittsburgh
Hello:

In the midst of a Lean Burn removal project on a very stock 1985 Diplomat 318 US 2bbl.

Converting to a standard Mopar Electronic ignition using the Mopar Action article, “Trash that Lean Burn” as a guide.
Lean Burn Conversion 101

Upon making all of the connections when I turn the ignition to RUN, the starter engages.

I double checked all connections as well as the wiring diagram in the FSM.

The article makes mention of this being a possibility—including the possible need to add a diode to solve the issue. Has anyone ever done this?

I tapped into the RUN and START wires under the dashboard at the ignition switch….not in the engine compartment at the main harness….does this matter ?

Could this just be a ground issue?

Thoughts?

Thanks.

IMG_4708.jpeg


IMG_4703.jpeg
 

Ark

Active Member
Joined
May 23, 2024
Messages
38
Reaction score
29
Location
Indiana
I tapped my START voltage at the starter relay on the firewall and the RUN voltage off the blue wire in the main harness.

Because you used that clip-on splice after the ignition switch, but before the relay, what's probably happening is 12v from the RUN position is going to one side of the ballast resistor, through the ballast resistor, and then energizing the wire you used for START. Which, in turn, is energizing the starter relay downstream of the splice.

You'll want to move that splice to somewhere that is downstream of the switch part of the starter relay, not a wire that energizes the coil part of the starter relay. I guess if you really, really wanted to, you could splice in a diode so voltage won't backfeed and activate the starter relay, but I'd move it. Both RUN and START can be found under the hood without going through the firewall.

My 87 had a very convenient empty terminal on the starter relay for START voltage, in the top left corner. Alternatively there's no reason you couldn't tap the wire leading out of the relay to the starter solenoid.
 

Mikes5thAve

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Messages
1,718
Reaction score
703
Location
Canada
I've also always done it at the starter relay. It is labeled what is start, run, for ballast etc. On some years one of the wires isn't there and I've had to run the wire with a spade terminal on it through the plastic plug.

It sounds like you're back feeding the start position like ark said.
 

rodrju

Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2024
Messages
20
Reaction score
8
Location
pittsburgh
Thanks all for the reply’s and good explanations.

I removed the wires from under the steering column and tapped into the dark blue wire from the main harness and then added the brown (start) wire to the unused “ballast” position on the starter relay. (See photo). Good tip on that Ark!

I am happy to say the starter is no longer engaged when the ignition is in run.

Unfortunately, I still have a little ways to go before I can test if it actually runs. Deleting the lean burn was part of a 2-4bbl conversion project that has been moving slowly.

Still trying to figure out the new throttle and kick down linkages..

I will update on progress…

Thank you Ark and Mike !

IMG_4722.jpeg
 

Camtron

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2019
Messages
2,274
Reaction score
1,853
Location
US
Get cables for throttle and kickdown, very easy to source and install/set up.
Can get universal ones from Mr.Gasket or whatever part store or can get them from Lokar for a little more.
I personally went with Lokar, they also have billet mounting brackets for their cables and different carbs on the market. Just got it all from once place to keep it convenient
 

Ark

Active Member
Joined
May 23, 2024
Messages
38
Reaction score
29
Location
Indiana
I just installed Lokar throttle and kickdown last week. Neither were very difficult, though the price gouging on Lokar brackets is ridiculous. But I guess $300 isn't terrible for a single shotgun blast solution to the entire carb linkage problem.

One thing I did do after some research was buy a throttle return spring assortment and pick a return spring to install on the transmission kickdown arm. That arm doesn't really return itself all the way to the home position without the linkage pushing it, and cables can only pull on things, not push them.
 

Mikes5thAve

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Messages
1,718
Reaction score
703
Location
Canada
You can usually get away with modifying the bracket to be more like the 4bbl one to use the existing throttle cable. The kickdown is probably easier these days to go lokar. When I did this 20+ years ago (wow time flies) I was able to get the kick down linkage that changed, it's only the top one that's different but it can be different again depending on what 4bbl is used.
 

Camtron

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2019
Messages
2,274
Reaction score
1,853
Location
US
I just installed Lokar throttle and kickdown last week. Neither were very difficult, though the price gouging on Lokar brackets is ridiculous. But I guess $300 isn't terrible for a single shotgun blast solution to the entire carb linkage problem.

One thing I did do after some research was buy a throttle return spring assortment and pick a return spring to install on the transmission kickdown arm. That arm doesn't really return itself all the way to the home position without the linkage pushing it, and cables can only pull on things, not push them.
Absolutely agree. I actually cut down the factory front return spring bracket and still use it with a couple return springs from O’Reillys on my 5.9 and air gap intake.
 

Ark

Active Member
Joined
May 23, 2024
Messages
38
Reaction score
29
Location
Indiana
You can usually get away with modifying the bracket to be more like the 4bbl one to use the existing throttle cable. The kickdown is probably easier these days to go lokar. When I did this 20+ years ago (wow time flies) I was able to get the kick down linkage that changed, it's only the top one that's different but it can be different again depending on what 4bbl is used.
Ha. I did my first 4bbl conversion darn near 20 years ago, too. Had help from another poster from the Farley's board. I was basically broke at the time, so he bent the 2bbl throttle bracket over to meet the 4bbl linkage, and cut and welded the kickdown arm to the 4bbl length. It was janky, but it worked for a looooong time, so.

But in the intervening two decades, I learned that there is value to simply buying a solution that fits and works. Factory linkage is great if you never change anything...I changed everything.
 

Sub03

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2020
Messages
156
Reaction score
100
Location
Norway
I went with a cheap Lokar style knockoff when I did mine.

STAINLESS STEEL THROTTLE, 904 KICK DOWN CABLE AND BRACKET KIT #6054/6055/#6056 | eBay

The only thing I didn't like about it was the carb stud bracket, which looked a bit flimsy.
The cables and hardware was actually good quality. Used it for exactly five years now without issues.

You may have to fab up some way to attach the cables to the carb though. You want the kickdown cable to move the same distance as the throttle cable, and reach "max" position at WOT.
 

rodrju

Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2024
Messages
20
Reaction score
8
Location
pittsburgh
Here is what I have ready to be installed….

Not at that point just yet…I’m sure I’ll be reaching out for help when I am. I have no experience messing with a custom throttle/kickdown. I’ve mostly worked in using or adapting stock parts.

Throttle cable, bracket and kickdown are all Lokar.

IMG_4725.jpeg


IMG_4726.jpeg
 

Ark

Active Member
Joined
May 23, 2024
Messages
38
Reaction score
29
Location
Indiana
I went with a cheap Lokar style knockoff when I did mine.

STAINLESS STEEL THROTTLE, 904 KICK DOWN CABLE AND BRACKET KIT #6054/6055/#6056 | eBay

The only thing I didn't like about it was the carb stud bracket, which looked a bit flimsy.
The cables and hardware was actually good quality. Used it for exactly five years now without issues.

You may have to fab up some way to attach the cables to the carb though. You want the kickdown cable to move the same distance as the throttle cable, and reach "max" position at WOT.
I could have bought a $70 Chinese counterfeit Lokar this entire time!? :eek: I would have cheaped out and done it years ago.

kd spring.jpg


This picture was the inspiration for my return spring. I ended up using a longer one and going to an ear further forward on the bell housing. There's a lot of ways you could do it, like fabbing a small bracket, piggybacking on an aftermarket shifter bracket, going all the way to column shifter linkage pivot, etc. The point is to ensure the arm is all the way forward in travel at idle, and all the way back at WOT. Haven't fine-tuned it by driving yet, but I set my initial adjustment by zip tying the throttle to WOT, zip tying the kickdown arm all the way back, and pulling all the slack out of the kickdown cable at the carb.

With the zip ties cut and everything at idle there is just a whisper of slack in the KD cable. People whose installations don't use a return spring at the transmission arm have more slack, and it's because the natural return on that transmission lever is pretty weak when the pump isn't running. The important thing for adjustment is that WOT at the carb equals WOT at the transmission. The return spring just helps keep the lever from sticking at the 1/3 point and not going back down to idle.

The 904s and 727s got a few different kickdown arms over the years. Some users have drilled a hole in their kickdown arm and mounted their cable there to change the ratio because the movement of the transmission arm and the movement at the carb weren't quite 1:1. Again, haven't road tested mine yet, but it doesn't look to be a concern on my 727 with my kickdown arm. The general principle is to just make sure the position of that lever from 0-100% matches the throttle position from 0-100% without any hangups or mismatches. That lever is the transmission's information input for what your throttle is doing, so it is very important that information be accurate to avoid damaging the transmission.

Except for the return spring, the instructions are pretty clear and have very good diagrams. 3/10 difficulty, not a tough job at all. Hardest part was hacksawing a frozen cotter pin to get the old linkage off the kickdown arm. Throttle cable was a breeze, the only thing I added was a pair of large washers and some silicon because the factory throttle had a large square plug at the firewall and I wanted to seal the hole. Have fun getting those intake manifold bolts off to remove the factory kickdown bracket!
 

XfbodyX

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2015
Messages
1,711
Reaction score
482
Location
Central US
Ive a good supply of oem kickdown parts but I did buy this just in case I needed to do something different or just to test or of used Id consider an better unit but I know many who are doing well with this el cheapo unit. They sell a lot of these and they have good reviews.

Screenshot 2024-06-20 at 10-52-32 GEARHEAD FITS CHRYSLER CHRYSLER 904 TRANSMISSION KICKDOWN CA...png
 

rodrju

Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2024
Messages
20
Reaction score
8
Location
pittsburgh
Another quick question about the Lean Burn Delete…

The ignition coil.

The original wiring (with factory Lean Burn) to the coil was

RED + (positive)
BLUE AND BLACK - (negative)
Standard UC16

Now I have

Red wire I supplied + (positive) that joins the brown wire at the ballast
Black striped wire from new ignition box - (negative)
Standard Coil UC12


I currently have all the original factory coil connection wires taped off and not connected to anything.

Am I on the right track here?

Thanks.
 

Duke5A

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2018
Messages
1,806
Reaction score
1,014
Location
Michigan
In the small block days I cut the kickdown in half and used a turnbuckle with a couple jam nuts. Lengthened the rod and made it adjustable from under the hood.
 

Ele115

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2019
Messages
720
Reaction score
301
Location
Tampa FL
I had one that I welded a few nuts to so it was longer and still had a lot of adjustment
 

rodrju

Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2024
Messages
20
Reaction score
8
Location
pittsburgh
Lokar throttle cable and kickdown installed and working well! Many other issues to figure out.
 
Back
Top