Mirada/Cordoba Interiors

[kkritsilas]

Hi,

I am trying to plan some things out for the spring. One of the things that I want to plan out is the stereos for my 2 J bodies. The 1980 Cordoba has an AM/FM stereo only (no tape player), and the 1981 CMX has an AM/FM Stereo cassette with the rear amplifier (rear amplifier works). The questions for the stereos are:

1. Do they use standard Mopar radio connectors (like all the other Mopars of that era, 2 20 Pin connectors), because I know where to get the Scoshe dash kit that will mate the new in dash radio CD player to the car.

2. Does the rear amplifier just get turned or and off with the rear amplifier have power applied to it, use a remote turn on signal, or just have an audio signal applied to it and it turns itself on and off?

3. What speakers fit in the front dash (the two in the corner sports, 4", 5 1/4". 6 1/2", and how deep are the speaker opernings? Has anybody put speakers into the front doors? I take it that 6X9s will fit in the rear deck below the parcel shelf.

Also, I would like to convert the R12 in the air conditioning systems to R134a. Do I need to change the compressor, other parts, or just a gas change after evacuating the R12 out? The AC on these cars is all stock.

Kostas

 

[Mr.Lopar]

front speakers are 3.5", rears are 5x7, but you can fit 6x9s on the bottom side

 

[High Speed Pursuit]

Currently there is an international moratorium on cutting up J body door panels...jk

3.5" is correct but you can go with 4" on the dash with a little fab work and since they are covered by the dash trim piece, no one will see it. I ran mid's with tweeters on the dash and used capacitors to keep the lower hz out of them and did the opposite on my 6x9's installed on the bottom of the rear deck to keep the highs out of them and also put tweeters on the bottom of my rear deck and used an after market amp to bypass the factory one, but it all looked factory without cutting up the interior...there was a craigslist ad from Detroit for 2 blue door panels with speaker cutouts for $20 US....

The rear amp is activated by a push button switch (p/n 3747 874) that is mounted beside the rear defroster switch on the lower right black dash panel just above where your right leg would be as you sit in the seat...all cars did not come with this option.

 

[kkritsilas]

Mr. Lopar & High Speed Pursuit:

Thanks for the prompt information.

My intent is to go as invisible as possible on the sound system, so no cutting of the door panels. I will probably get 3 1/2'-4" coaxials in the dash, and try to get 5"X7" or 6"X9" coax/triax in the rear deck. I will try to get it invisible enough so that not even the mounting screws will be visible. There will be a 2 X10" or 2 X12" sub box in the trunk. Amplifiers will all be aftermarket PPI Power Class units from the early 1990s that have be verified/repaired to be working properly/meet all specifications. I already have the amplifiers (a PC4400 (4 X 50W) for the dash and deck speakers, and a PC2600 (2 X 300W) for the subs). All the crossovers will be happening at the radio, or with the crossovers built into the amps, so no need for bass blockers or capacitors needed. There will be some wiring to be done, but nothing outrageous. Wonder if the 100A alternator will be enough for this system?

I have the factory rear amp already in place in my 1981 Mirada CMX, and it is still functional when I flip the switch. I just wanted to know if the factory rear amp switch could be used to turn on/off the sub amp for the new system. I suppose I could always rewire it to the remote turn on wire from the radio, then just use the switch itself to allow or block the remote turn on signal. I may add one to the Cordoba as well.

Kostas

 

[NoCar340]

The black & grey 7-pin plugs debuted in '84. The earlier cars use common-ground speaker wiring, meaning three wires feed two speakers off the back of the head unit. To my knowledge, no one makes a wiring kit for '83 & older models. They didn't even make them when I started my first stint as professional installer in 1994. Your best option, really, is to rewire completely for a new stereo.

Avoid the rear amp. Cool as it was at the time, it would ruin the sound of a modern stereo if it didn't blow up from the input levels. I would consider it only for a total restoration.

The dash-structure speaker openings are oddball 5.25". I had Infinity Kappa separates up front in my '81 Mirada with 4" midwoofers and had to make adapter plates so they'd fit. The dash openings in both my Imperials and both my LS Cordobas, spanning '80-'82, were all this way. I had an interference problem on the driver's side with the Infinity's huge magnet, which I solved with a heat gun, the speaker, and a bad attitude.

The rears are 5x7/6x8, which is a common dual-pattern aftermarket speaker. You can put 6x9s under the deck, but the stamping is recessed for the speaker flanges. At higher volumes, the rolled surround of some 6x9s will hit the sheetmetal, resulting in muddied bass. This may or may not be an issue depending on the depth of the front spacer. The 6x9 is not a good fit to the underside of rear deck, so bass clarity and response is lost anyhow. There are plenty of excellent-quality speakers available in the correct size that will require no drilling and will sit on on the correct side of the deck panel, so why mess around drilling holes and figuring out your own hardware?

Door speakers are a slippery slope. If you do want to run them in addition to the dash and deck speakers, you'll have to get a little creative with the wiring. If you put them low in the door behind the carpeted area, you should be able to find "acoustically transparent" carpeting, though I'm not sure if it will be the correct cut-pile type. It's usually more like the soft side of velcro, but dye it to match and it would probably be close enough. Another option would be to scour the junkyards looking for some make & model with factory door speakers that are covered by carpet large enough to do the area on your door, ideally in a suitable color.

I went way above & beyond doing the stereo in my Mirada. I don't think I would be that meticulous anymore... too time-consuming.

 

[NoCar340]

Nice freakin' amps, by the way! :eusa_drool:

 

[My imp]

The rear amp uses a common ground, & I put the factory Infinity in my '81 Imp, which has a joystick balance/fader. The common ground rear amp would fry the to, amp, or both. 5 1/4" is a very common speaker size. I have the entire Infinity system but don't feel the quality is up to modern speakers, amps, crossovers, etc.. I believe there are decent enough pictures that you can see the install. I bought the install kit, but it won't work. You need to go through the FSM to match your installation. I'm going to use the spot for the rear amp switch for my heated seats switch instead. The Imp has a bigger package deck, which I installed the factory 6 disc changer. Later I plan to install better speakers, amp, & a port for my iTunes device (whichever one Santa brings me!).

 

[kkritsilas]

Nocar/My Imp:

Thanks for the added information. I would really prefer to get 5 1/4" speakers in the dash. I am going to forgo the door speakers. I think a full rewire is in order to get things to work properly. I will be leaving the original harness in there there, just not using it. Its going to be 5 1/4" coax/components in the dash, 5"X7" or 6"X8" coax/triax in the rear deck, and the sub box in the trunk. It should be a good sounding system, more than powerful enough, but power levels shouldn't be too stupid.

The amps are left overs from an older vehicle. Good quality amps, made back when watts were real, unlike today's Class D junk. I have already had the PC4400 verified, will be sending the PC2600 in next. They always sounded good in my old setup, with two pairs of Boston Acoustic Pro 5.0s with a pair of Pyle 10" subs. I haven't really decided on the speakers yet, but they will be aftermarket, probably Polk, JBL, or Infinity, but the subs are going to be Kicker Solobariks (the square subwoofer) in a suitable box. I'd love to get Focal Utopias, but the money required is way too hard to justify. Too bad Boston Acoustics is no longer making car audio speakers, I always liked the sound of those speakers (Pro Series).

Kostas

 

[My imp]

Save yourself the aggravation, use the stock harness. Unless you're going to install a mega watt system where you'll need the heavier gauge wiring, the stock should suffice. Being an old fart who listens to old fart music, this is fine for me, as most everything I listen to is recorded on a 4 or 8 track systems. All the remastering in the world isn't going to improve a blues record that's 60 yrs old. You can't polish a turd! The Mirada/Cordoba harness isn't as complex as an Imp.'s is, but the audio circuit should be the same if the "Rear Amp" came stock on yours. Good luck with yours. My Infinity head unit (ported) was purchased by me new in '93, it's an AM/FM Cassette that I added the disc to. Being black w/digital read out, it blends perfectly with the digital dash in the Imp.

 

[kkritsilas]

My Imp:

The common ground speaker setup is not usable with aftermarket head units, nor with amplifiers. The system I am planning would be good and clear, and will get loud, but the emphasis is on clear, clean, wide range sound. That being said, I also want to be able to use CDs with the system, as well as an iPod/iPhone. I will use the continuous power, switched power, and dimmer lines in the factory harness. What I will not be using is the speaker wiring, or the wiring to the rear amplfier (which will be coming out if it is in the way). The only wiring that will be added will be the 6 preamp signal outs (4 for the regular speaker amplifier, plus 2 for the sub amp), speaker wiring (current wiring is common ground, so it is unusable), and power wiring (a 4 gauge wire to the trunk, fused somewhere near the battery, distribution block to the amps themselves). Not a hugely complex, or high powered system, but if I pick my speakers right, should sound good (no boom and tizz system here).

As for music, I listen to what would be called "classic rock", finger style acoustic guitar, and acoustic blues. And some of the acoustic blues cannot be improved, no matter what system you put it through (I don't think Blind Willie McTell or Tampa Red had 24 bit recording workstations available), but some of the Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin stuff does have enough detail and nuance in it that the sound is improved by the use of a better sound system, as can almost all of the newer, or well recorded older music. And most music can be much improved just by the system having a wider frequency response.

Kostas

 

[My imp]

Dig it, that's what I said. The rear amp is good for resto & nothing else. Any of the King's (B.B., Albert, etc..), Beatles, etc.. cannot be any clearer no matter how much is spent or used. I found it easier to add where needed in the wiring harness. If you have pin removal tools, you can remove pins from plastic junction blocks where needed & not cut, but add grounds where needed. My joystick works perfectly. In spring I'll upgrade speakers, but she's down for a long winters nap. It's amazing what a blank canvas the factory gave us! You can go in many directions, & with the parts swap ability the sky's the limit. Up until now our cars haven't really been on anyone's radar, but I don't look for that to continue much longer. Enjoy it while you can!

 

[kkritsilas]

All of the cars on this board will eventually become recognized by the collector/muscle car community for the values that they are. Most 60s-early 70s muscle cars have already (in my mind anyway) reached a point where they are no longer affordable, so people will look at alternatives. The '75-79 Cordbobas, Chargers, and Magnums are obvious choices (especially the big block cars), as all of our cars will be. Prices have started to appreciate on the GM G-Bodies (a few, like the Buick Regal Turbo T-Type, Grand National and GNX are already beyond affordable, maybe the Monte Carlo SSes as well). I think the plain jane '71-on Satellites (2 doors) are undervalued right now, but they too will be going up, and most likely very quickly. And then all of our cars will start to climb.

Kostas

 

[NoCar340]

That should be a great-sounding system, kkritsilas. While I agree that older recordings will never be great due to the original recording equipment, just hearing everything on the recording (noise and all) still gets you that nuance and "flavor" you just can't get with elderly car audio, such as the common-ground systems.

Chrysler's audio systems took a quantum leap forward with the '84-newer wiring setup and the Infinity sound systems. Interesting fact: Chrysler's Infinity-branded head units were either made by Alpine or Eclipse (Fujitsu Ten), two of the heavy hitters of the time. Units that did not have the Infinity logo, even if they appeared to be otherwise-identical on the outside, did not always have the good "guts". The Infinity units didn't seem to have the glitches and failure rate of the others, either.

As far as later cars gaining value, I agree to some extent, but they don't have the glitz factor or pure muscle that the '60s & early '70s did. The market seems to be rising again on the musclecars, but they're still well down from the hellish days that started in the early '90s. If I still had half the cars I've carved up, parted, crushed, etc. I'd be able to take several years off work. I don't see the FMJY cars hitting anywhere near the kind of numbers Six Pack Super Bees or even plain-jane GTXs can bring in my lifetime, and all the good muscle-era plain-jane siblings are being snatched up to rebody rusted or totalled hulks. That really boils my blood. There's a beautifully "restored" '70 Challenger in Gladstone, MI. It's painted a metallic pink, but the data tag indicates it as FM3 Panther Pink and having all the good options. The data tag is a faked repro, and the car is a rebody. How do I know this? Because I know the location of the actual T/A from which the numbers were taken. I took pictures of it December 13th of 2002. I'm pretty sure it's beyond restoration:

 

[MiradaMegacab]

"Relax man. My father is a television repairman, he's got the ultimate set of tools. I can fix it."

Fast Times at Ridgemont High, movie quote.

 

[NoCar340]

:laughing4:

 

[My imp]

I know, but like any more popular models, our cars can have comparable performance. Chrysler has a bad habit of abandoning technology at the drop of the hat. Remember the 2.2 turbos? Small block? Magnums? B1's? HEMI, BB, & SB crate motors? Now everything is late model Hemi's. If Chrysler could, or would offer HEMI crate packages competitive with the LS offerings from GM, & get Horsepower TV to HEMI-ize everything but the kitchen sink, they could really improve their presence, as well as their bottom line. Supply & demand. At current prices, there isn't much of a demand! Everyone from drug dealers up know that you create your market, supply it with cheap product, & when you get em hooked, then you raise the prices. That's what the entire Pacific rim did with their cars. Lower priced cars of questionable quality led to better low priced cars, to high priced cars that were better than the junk the US of A was producing. We taught them to build cars & bikes. They built better cars & bikes. That forced us to build better cars & bikes (ask Willie G.) to compete with them. Everyone is only building cars the way the Gov't. is forcing them to build. Not entirely bad, with mpg & hp being what they are. But a Challenger weighs as much as my Imp! That's over 2ton! For a musclecar! I'd love to have the performance of an SRT in my Imp, along with the luxury it came with.

 

[kkritsilas]

One of my buddies who I go to the junkyards with knows a longtime collector who works behind the counter at a local wreckers. My buddy asked him about windshields for my blue Miranda. The counter guy said he didn't, but related a story about an AAR Cuda that was totaled by a guy who had been driving drunk. Hit a tree, then rolled the car. Total write off. Another collector, long distance, heard about it, and offered $10K for the totaled car. The owner said sure, but the car was totally gone. Long distance collector said all he needed were the VIN, fender tags, and basic block. He could buy everything else and build a car to match the VIN and tags with NOS parts.

This is the sort if insanity now happening in the Muscle car world. And what will bring up the values of what are considered to be the "lesser" (for want of a better word) cars. Ours amongst them. Our cars may not be the " glamour cars" like Hemi 'Cuda convertibles, but they will go up in value because they are easy to work on, there are mechanical parts everywhere, and they are both good looking, and don't look like newer cars, so they are distinctive. Due to their lower weight, getting them to go is easier, too. As was said above, Chrysler gave us some good basic material to work with. We recognize that today, others will recognize it sooner or later. We are never going to see $100K for our cars. But I think $10-20K is possible in the next 10 years for better examples.

Kostas

 

[My imp]

The PO saw $6000 for his!lol

 

[My imp]

Let's face it folks, we are a discerning, lunatic fringe group of people. We drive these cars because we WANT to, not because we have to. Had Chrysler chopped $5-6000 off the price of the Imperial they'd have been flying out of the showrooms (until the quality glitches became apparent), but they delivered too little for too much. A Cordoba with a rubber nose pretty much sums it up. They heaped a lot of gingerbread on it, but not near double the price worth. Most of what they considered the selling points of the car became its Aquillies heal. EFI, digital dash, heavier sheet metal (during a gas shortage), & the most expensive American car in 1981, effectively killed the car before it really got started. I know hindsight is 20/20, but some common sense should've prevailed. Sensitive electronic equipment inside an air cleaner? Backfire? Chrysler has always been an engineers company, I just don't know who they listened to during owners clinics & research groups. It's easy to blame the accountants, but the blame is higher up the food chain. But look on the bright side, had they gotten it right, a lot of us wouldn't be driving these cars.

 

[NoCar340]

I'm sure a big part of the price was paying union scale to the UAW guys that essentially hand-assembled the imperrials.

There are other considerations:
The '76-'77 F-bodies had a horrible reputation for quality since they were rushed into production. At one point I owned a '76 Aspen that only had 3 k-frame nuts installed at the factory. Build quality was nothing short of atrocious and those cars generated a ton of TSBs.
The '76-'77 F and '77 M were famous for rusting out, often in less than a year. More TSBs and service parts for that.
The front suspension of the F-based cars is so poorly designed geometry-wise, it caused a huge rift at Chrysler. Some of their suspension engineers actually quit rather than have their name associated with it. It was a huge step backward from longitudinal torsion bars. The real "Kit Cars", the Direct Connection package cars, were not actually based on F-bodies and did not use their suspension.
No four-speed manual transmission available with a performance engine option or even the 2-barrel 360. I've heard claims of this and that, but I've never seen one and whenever I ask for proof beyond "my uncle's best friend's sister's kid had one," the protest grows quiet.
No full gauges & no factory tach. I could never wrap my head around this, because the M & J-body clusters' designs absolutely scream for full instrumentation. I found a factory oil-pressure gauge for my Aspen which was nice, but the ones for the M-bodies were hideous afterthoughts. I actually have a tach face designed for a blanked M-body fuel guage face, but I never finished the project because the car is gone.

Suffice to say, rare or not, these cars will never bring the same money as an equal-year Trans Am or Camaro Z/28. Chrysler dropped the ball after the first oil embargo, and badly.

Unless you own a bona-fide E58 car or have a running EFI Imperial, I really think the best course of action is to just do what suits you. The argument could be made that certain mods can only increase the value of the cars. It's your car. Do what makes it all the more lovable to you. If you want it stone stock, good on you for your preservation efforts and I'll keep my eyes open for that hard-to-find left-hand thread piston return spring. If you want to drop in a 496" RB, I'll sell you the mounts and loan you my engine crane.

If you're looking at it as an investment, you're doing it wrong.