Optional Rear Shoulder Belt Documentation???

[Fresh Air Inspector]

Hello All,

I would like to add rear shoulder belts to my '88 Plymouth Caravelle (aka Gran Fury). I have some ideas as to where the various components can be mounted but it would be nice to know how the factory did it.

So, I'm hoping someone has a copy of the optional (dealer installed??), rear shoulder belt installation documentation. Specifically where the retractor and upper belt guide are mounted as well as the belt routing from the retractor to the upper guide.

Appreciate any information that is out there.

 

[Mikes5thAve]

I don't know if they had a retractor. I thought the top end bolted onto the package shelf like the baby seats back then did and there was a second buckle or loop or something that made it work with the lap belt. It was gimmicky and no one added them.
Nothing back there is really reinforced or designed for it and it can be more unsafe to add something then leaving it as is.

 

[Aspen500]

My '79 Aspen owners manual mentions that rear seat shoulder belts "are available from dealer". Says and shows nothing else about them.

Doubt I will ever find it but remember reading that mounting points for them are present. As I recall, they worked like the '68-'69 front shoulder straps. Meaning you buckle it separate from the lap belt, and manually tighten, no retractors. You will have another buckle in addition to the lap belt buckles. This is all going by memory though so.............

When building my car I thought about putting in rear shoulder straps, but then it occured to me that in the 37 years I've owned the car, not one single person ever sat back there so scrapped the idea, lol.

 

[AMC Diplomat]

I don't know if they had a retractor. I thought the top end bolted onto the package shelf like the baby seats back then did and there was a second buckle or loop or something that made it work with the lap belt. It was gimmicky and no one added them.
Nothing back there is really reinforced or designed for it and it can be more unsafe to add something then leaving it as is.

I second this. When I had my interior out, I saw that there's really nothing back there to anchor a seatbelt to except the floor. And even that's questionable. The package tray is a joke and would probably rip apart in a collision if someone was buckled in to it

Besides, have you guys seen the crash videos of these cars? A shoulder belt in the back ain't gonna help at all. I'd be more worried about getting trapped/crushed in one of these cars than having a seatbelt.

 

[Fresh Air Inspector]

Hello All,

Appreciate the feedback. I was hoping a diagram or pictures existed as the logical place for the harness mount is the rear parcel shelf. However, as you noted, it is quite weak so reinforcement is a necessity. My assumption was that the 'dealer kit' would include some form of reinforcing plate.

Thanks again!

 

[Fresh Air Inspector]

Hello All,

Guess what? Was looking up something in the owners manual (yes, my car came with the original pristine OM), and lo and behold on page 9 was the diagram below. DOH! Never thought to check the OM. As Aspen500 mentioned it is a two piece system; you retain the existing lap belt and add the shoulder belt with its own bucket. Typical '70s logic applied to a late '80s vehicle.

I tried to figure out exactly where the diagram is showing the mounting. Based on the trunk torsion bar it is very close to the rear speakers which would place the mounting point behind the persons neck. Not ideal. Also, I can not find the bolt hole indicated in the drawing.

I would have assumed the mounting would be as close to the C pillar as possible to mimic a typical shoulder belt set-up.

The reinforcing plate in the drawing is very similar to the ones for the rear lap belts. The thickness of the plate along with the rolled edges makes it a strong piece but it needs the 'metal overlap' area to provide additional strength. Problem is, I can't find this 'metal overlap' area in my car as it should be the underside of the parcel shelf. :-(

Looking forward to the feedback.

 

[Rustyroger]

Is the reinforcement plate part of the kit? If so it seems North America is way behind Europe in that respect. Some British makes had 3 point front and rear mountings as an integral part of the bodyshell in the 1960s. In 1987 rear belts were compulsory for all new passenger cars with a rear seat. However nearly all cars sold in UK (and western Europe) already had them anyway. It seems Chrysler were somewhat behind the curve if the M body cars didn't have them.

Roger.

 

[Fresh Air Inspector]

Hello Rustyroger,

Canada and especially the US were well behind Europe when it came to seat / shoulder belts (front and rear). Some of the US car manufacturers tried to introduce front lap belts in the late fifties but had to discontinue them because the public thought those models must be 'unsafe' and needed belts to protect the passengers. Also, 'buckle-up' laws to force front seat / should belt usage didn't happen until the late 70s in most provinces in Canada with rear seat / shoulder belts until some year latter. In the US, it is hodge-podge of 'buckle-up' laws or not mandatory.

Volvo was the first to introduce front shoulder belts and rear lap belts around 1964 (my 1965 123GT had front shoulder and rear lap belts - sadly that car is long gone; drunk driver wrote it off :-(. My 1978 SAAB 99 had rear lap belts but also had the provision for rear shoulder belts - a trip to an auto recycler allowed me to bolt in rear shoulder belts.

The US manufacturers started front shoulder belts (shoulder separate from the lap, therefore two buckles :-(, and rear lap belts in the early 70s. I can't recall when rear shoulder belts became standard but my guess would be mid 1990s. My 1994 Volvo 940 turbo wagon has them and the 1996 Chevrolet Impala SS I had a few years ago also had them.

I haven't had a chance to pursue rear shoulder belts for the Plymouth - just moved, so packing up / unpacking / setting up the new garage has put it on hold for a month or so. :-( As soon as I get the rear shoulder belts sorted I'll update this thread.

Hope that helps explain it.

 

[Aspen500]

The front shoulder belts came around in US in '67/'68. My parents '68 Coronet had them. The seperate buckle was kind of a pain BUT way less pain than your head smashing into the steering wheel or dash.

Their'62 Fury had front and rear lap belts. IIRC, my dad said the front was a factory option, and the rear were a dealer installed option, which he had done. Both cars were bought new btw.

The rule was always that the car didn't start until everyone had their seat belts fastened. Dad was a smart man.

 

[Fresh Air Inspector]

Hello Aspen500,

Thanks for the correction. Looks like my memory is starting to misfire!