RePaint questions

[Justwondering]

I have a 1987 Fifth Avenue that needs to be repainted. I have just spent the budget this year for new vinyl roof and recovered all interior trim. So this paint job will be next year. The car is a driver, not show quality, not custom kewl.

I've never had a car repainted before.

Here are my questions:

1. What do I do in the mean time to keep it in good shape and prevent rust from taking hold?

2. Husband wants it to stay stock silver (sigh). Does that mean I should just do the sheet metal and not worry so much about the engine compartment, door jambs, etc?

3. How do I select a paint pro to do this?

4. Do I just tell them use the paint color (radiant silver) from Chrysler 1987?

5. Should I go to the trouble to remove all the trim and chrome and bonnet before I send it to be painted?

6. For that matter, do I spot repair any paint problem areas? Is that a can of something that is filler/primer or is this a bondo/hardener issue? I don't have big problem areas just small places where it looks like the paint has chipped due to a rock hit or along the door jamb.

7. What type of budget should I be considering?

8. How long does it take to paint and cure?

9. What do I do after I get it back. Should I be washing and waxing this every week to 10 days or ?? I'm guessing I should be scavaging metal to make a carport next year.

This is a lot of questions, but I've been reading so many things about repainting. I don't know what I need to know to ask good questions. I just don't feel like I can swing painting it on my own; but, I know I can invest some elbow grease if it will stretch my budget further to get a good re-paint.

You guys have been so helpful as I learn how to get this ride back in shape. Again, I won't be painting til next year when funds are available.

 

[Master M]

Hello, Keep doing what you are doing and investigate all options. Talk to the manager of your local automotive paint store, and get some direction of who he would recommend to paint his car. He can also recommend paint options to you. This can be beneficial because he may know a good body man that does side work for less money. It is always nicer to remove all trim, but not necessary unless you have bad spots under it. Staying the stock color can cut down costs of not painting door jambs etc. Costs will vary, and make sure to get a few estimates. There is a local person to me that does complete paint jobs for $1200.00. Ask to see the body shops work on customers cars. They should be more than happy to put you in contact with one of their customers.

 

[Jack Meoff]

1. I live in Canada where they salt the roads heavily. If you're planning on driving it through the winter I would seriously consider having it oil sprayed or rust proofed as they call it.
Other than that I'd just keep it clean and make sure there's no leaves and such stuck in and areas like the front cowl where your wiper transmission is, trunk, doors, etc.

2. If you stay stock then yes it will save you the time of doing the door jambs, trunk and engine bay. I'm planning on changing mine from silver to black so I'm making myself a lot of extra work.

3. I would look through the phone book (or google) and check out all your local body shops. The fly by nighters should be fairly obvious. Like Master M s said. Ask to see some of their work.
You don't need to blow a fortune on a paint job on a driver but yes.....it does have to look good. Remember.....a cheap paint job look good and a good paint job isn't cheap.

4. If you want to go stock just give them the original paint code. I have it somewhere. I'll post the link for you.

5. Unless your planning on shooting for gold at the Nats then no. What I would do though is remove the easy stuff. Headlight bezels, etc. But generally a good shop can get in pretty tight by just taping it.

6. The paint shop should take care of that when they prep the car. Remember they are a body shop and prepping is part of it. If the metal is exposed I'd cover it with something to prevent rust. A dab of grease or even spray can clear coat. It will all get sanded off during the prep anyw.

7. A good shop will probably be roughly $1200-$2000 at least around here anyway.

8. You'll want to keep that paint out of harms way for at least a week. Letting it sit in the sun doesn't hurt either.

9. Myself? No touchy for at least a week. Ask the shop what they recommend as far as when you can wash and wax. I've pretty much given up on paste wax. It almost always leaves swirls from buffing it off. I use a spray on quick wax now. Meguier's is pretty good and i use nothing but a clean microfiber cloth.

Hope this helps.

 

[Jack Meoff]

Not sure why they don't have 1987 listed but here's the paint codes for Radiant Silver. http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorcodedisplay.cgi?code=CA1&manuf=Chrysler&rows=50

 

[Justwondering]

Is one paint better than another? Do I care who manufacturers the paint and if it is one step or acrylic or extra clear coat, etc.

the threads I've read indicate individuals have very strong bias for and against types of paint and painting process.

 

[Jack Meoff]

Everyone has a preference. I've always gone Sherwin Williams or PPG. But a good shop will use good paint. A cheap shop will use cheap paint.

 

[Master M]

Being in Texas if you go clear coat make sure it is top quality or the clear coat will degrade if out in the sun. Look around at some of the clear coats on newer cars and trucks that have spent time in the sun. I have seen single stage polyurethane, or acrylic enamel hold up well in the sun. At least you could wash off the oxidation and buff/wax. Once clear coat starts to fail you can't bring it back by rubbing any type of compound on it. JMHO

 

[Justwondering]

I am definitely in Texas.
The car's clear coat has failed and the paint across the trunk looks like someone took it to the car wash every week. Two faded trails.

My mother-in-law only drove it a couple of years before she got too old to navigate safely. I have no idea how the prior owner treated the car.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[Aspen500]

Yeah, it'll look like the roof on my '96 Dakota,,,,,,,,,,,,,white, lol! Truck is black/clear. That's just from being parked outside at work 5 days a week for 18 years in Wisconsin sun and most likely 5 days a week in Chicago for 2 years when the first owner had it. That's being kept spotless and waxed more or less every month or two since I've had it.

 

[Dr Lebaron]

I've always kept the 79 Lebaron coupe in a garage, 'might' see rain once a yr and NEVER park it out over night with the dew.
That dew and then when the sun come out, acting like a magnifying glass kills paint jobs.

My coupe has NEVER been waxed except for the wax inside the car soap I use.
If I ever did a buff job to it, the space station would see it.
Paint done in 1998 and it's dusty/not show clean in the pic.

 

[Justwondering]

I love the color of that car.

 

[kkritsilas]

......
9. Myself? No touchy for at least a week. Ask the shop what they recommend as far as when you can wash and wax. I've pretty much given up on paste wax. It almost always leaves swirls from buffing it off. I use a spray on quick wax now. Meguier's is pretty good and i use nothing but a clean microfiber cloth. \
......

Captain Caravelle:

The swirl marks are because you are using a wax/polish combined in one product. The swirl marks are from the polish.

I would suggest the following (I am assuming you have access to Meguiar's products):

1. Wash car
2. Immediately clean paint using Meguiar's #2 Fine Cut Cleaner. You will see a lot of swirl marks.
3. Making sure that all of the Meguiar's #2 is removed, go over the entire car again, this time with Meguiar's #9 (they may be at version 3 by now). DO NOT DO THIS IN THE SUN, YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO GET THE #9 OFF.
4. When the #9 is completely removed and the paint is now really clean (almost all of the swirl marks will be gone, now), wax the car with Meguiar's #26, in wax form, not the liquid form. #26 is a pure was, no polish in it at all.

Note that this can take a lot of time, and it many not be possible to do in one day. If so, then wash, and clean with #2. The next time, wash again, and polish out with #9. Next time, wash, and wax with the #26.

Needless to say, all of the Meguiar's numbers are from their Mirror Glaze (professional) line, and that cleaning/polishing/waxing is to be done with a straight line motion, not a circular motion.

Also note that it may or many not require a waiting period before washing/waxing. If the car is repainted with a catalyzed paint, it won't get any harder/drier after a couple of days. If it is painted with acrylic enamel (what the factory used way back when) it may takes weeks for the paint to cure. Listen to what the paint shop recommends; they know what they used, and when the paint can be washed/polished/waxed.

 

[Dr Lebaron]

So there was a reason I've never waxed my coupe.
No swirl marks.

If I could find a real pro with a buffer, I might do that, but not doing the home buffing.

 

[Jack Meoff]

Captain Caravelle:

The swirl marks are because you are using a wax/polish combined in one product. The swirl marks are from the polish.

I would suggest the following (I am assuming you have access to Meguiar's products):

1. Wash car
2. Immediately clean paint using Meguiar's #2 Fine Cut Cleaner. You will see a lot of swirl marks.
3. Making sure that all of the Meguiar's #2 is removed, go over the entire car again, this time with Meguiar's #9 (they may be at version 3 by now). DO NOT DO THIS IN THE SUN, YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO GET THE #9 OFF.
4. When the #9 is completely removed and the paint is now really clean (almost all of the swirl marks will be gone, now), wax the car with Meguiar's #26, in wax form, not the liquid form. #26 is a pure was, no polish in it at all.

Note that this can take a lot of time, and it many not be possible to do in one day. If so, then wash, and clean with #2. The next time, wash again, and polish out with #9. Next time, wash, and wax with the #26.

Needless to say, all of the Meguiar's numbers are from their Mirror Glaze (professional) line, and that cleaning/polishing/waxing is to be done with a straight line motion, not a circular motion.

Also note that it may or many not require a waiting period before washing/waxing. If the car is repainted with a catalyzed paint, it won't get any harder/drier after a couple of days. If it is painted with acrylic enamel (what the factory used way back when) it may takes weeks for the paint to cure. Listen to what the paint shop recommends; they know what they used, and when the paint can be washed/polished/waxed.

That's great info kostas.
However what I'm referring to are the swirls you see in a dark color car. Long after the wax is gone you can see the swirls from where they used an abrasive wax or rag.

 

[Cordoba1]

I have a 1987 Fifth Avenue that needs to be repainted. I have just spent the budget this year for new vinyl roof and recovered all interior trim. So this paint job will be next year. The car is a driver, not show quality, not custom kewl.

I've never had a car repainted before.

Here are my questions:

1. What do I do in the mean time to keep it in good shape and prevent rust from taking hold?

2. Husband wants it to stay stock silver (sigh). Does that mean I should just do the sheet metal and not worry so much about the engine compartment, door jambs, etc?

3. How do I select a paint pro to do this?

4. Do I just tell them use the paint color (radiant silver) from Chrysler 1987?

5. Should I go to the trouble to remove all the trim and chrome and bonnet before I send it to be painted?

6. For that matter, do I spot repair any paint problem areas? Is that a can of something that is filler/primer or is this a bondo/hardener issue? I don't have big problem areas just small places where it looks like the paint has chipped due to a rock hit or along the door jamb.

7. What type of budget should I be considering?

8. How long does it take to paint and cure?

9. What do I do after I get it back. Should I be washing and waxing this every week to 10 days or ?? I'm guessing I should be scavaging metal to make a carport next year.

This is a lot of questions, but I've been reading so many things about repainting. I don't know what I need to know to ask good questions. I just don't feel like I can swing painting it on my own; but, I know I can invest some elbow grease if it will stretch my budget further to get a good re-paint.

You guys have been so helpful as I learn how to get this ride back in shape. Again, I won't be painting til next year when funds are available.

Answers:
1: Keep it dry! Exposing an old car to moisture (bad) and salt (much, much worse!) will accelerate an exasperate rust.

2: Purely your choice. If you don't paint the jambs, everyone will notice that the car has had a color change. If you don't care about originality or how good looking the engine bay is, then who cares? Don't spend the money, unless you care.

3: Budget. If you're building a show-car, the you should vet the quality of the body shop against your budget. If you simply want to freshen an old friend, I submit one of the fast-and-cheap paint shops can do a fine job... You'll just have to be extra gentle with the washings after-the-fact as cheap paint scratches easier than more expensive options.

4: Yes. Any body shop can get the exact color formulation for your car. In rare instances where they can't, body shops have a gadget than can be placed against a clean body panel to get a very close approximation of the color formulation. This is a fairly common procedure when matching older single-stage colors to more modern color-coat / clear-coat formulations.

5: Your choice. Budget VS creating a show car. I've done it both ways, and I've been pleased with both. Removing of the trim makes for a much cleaner job, but it the project will cost considerably more. If you're "refreshing" a car, taping of the trim is fine. If you decide to change the color or your desire is to create a car that is as nice as factory new, then removing of the trim is pretty much necessary.

6: Talk to your body person. Easy body repairs shouldn't cost too much. If you're going through the process of refreshing the paint, I'd highly recommend getting dents fixed. Brand new, shiny paint will only highlight body damage, not hide it.

7: An "Earl Sheibe" or "Macco" special might be $500. And a "real" paint job from a professional restoration shop would easily, EASILY cost $8,000. I'd advise you to think about your budget, think about what you really want to accomplish with your paint job, and talk options with your local body shops. I've had old beaters that I've have freshened at the local Earl Sheibe for $700 and been very pleased with. Sure, a bird poops on it, and it leaves a stain, but it was a $700 paint job. On the other hand, I spent $3,000 for the paint on my current J-Body -- and it is by far a restoration-quality-paint job -- but by-and-large, I'm very pleased with it. With paint jobs, it really does boil down to "you get what pay for." If you choose to go for the cheaper option, you'll have to treat it with the utmost care: Cheap pain will stain and swirl and dull upon the very first automatic car wash.

8: The longer you wait, the better. Paint will out-gas for many weeks. If you seal it with wax, the curing-process slows and the paint may not cure correctly. Conventional wisdom holds that fresh paint shouldn't be waxed for six weeks after leaving the paint-booth. Washing is fine, but only using the most gentle of methods. (Double-bucket, microfiber, etc.)

9: NO! Leave the car alone to cure. If it you must daily-drive the car, only wash using touchless-automatics, or the most gentle of hand-washes. No wax for six weeks. And when you do start waxing, four times per year is more than enough. Once in the Spring and once before Winter is a minimum as that will keep a coat of wax on the body to prevent rust. More than that might make it look great more of the time, but it really doesn't do any more to protect against rust. Keeping cars clean and dry goes a lot further.

One final comment: Salt and Water are enemy #1 -- However... If It happens to be 10 degrees F, and there is that tell-tale white salt-haze dried on your car, that is not really a big deal. If, however, it's 33 degrees F, and that dew on your car has NaCL dissolved in it, that is the worst possible case... That's when salt can do it's worse! Parking a salt-covered car in a semi-heated garage does it no favors. If the garage is heated, where the water evaporates -- that's okay... Or parking it outside where the water is frozen or evaporates -- that's okay. But when cars are bathed in a salt-water solution, that's the worst.

And a PS to the final comment: No mechanical-brush automatic car washes if you truly care about your paint. There are endless websites about paint care. Just check out the forums at any of the big-name body-care companies (Maguire's, 3M, Griot's, etc).

PSS: Wax... I take great pride in the appearance and care of my vehicles. I'm not a wax-snob. Since I daily-drive all of my vehicles, I haven't found any discernible difference between the high-prices waxes or the stuff we know-and-love. Turtle wax does just as fine of a job as Maguire's. There might be a difference on show cars, but not-so-much on daily-drivers.

$.02

 

[Cordoba1]

So there was a reason I've never waxed my coupe.
No swirl marks.

If I could find a real pro with a buffer, I might do that, but not doing the home buffing.

Spend 3 hours on a hand wash and wax-of-your choice job on that bad-boy. You will NOT be disappointed! I find auto-detailing to be both rewarding and relaxing.

 

[kkritsilas]

Captain:

I understand that. If you go through the process that I outlined, it will take 2-4 cycles before they too, are gone. As an attempt, try the first cycle through without the #2,washing and going straight to #9. I will bet that you will see an improvement; it is an improvement mind you, not a complete fix. To get 90%+ of the old swirl marks out, you will need multiple passes of the process that I wrote about. You can make all of this go away a lot quicker, if you want to, by having the paint power polished by a good, competent detailer. (NOT CHEAP). You can then start with a surface that is swirl free. Just ideas.

I just don't believe in quick detailer's ability to protect paint. Even with the very deep respect I have for Meguiars, even their detailer doesn't protect properly. it also does nothing to remove the underlying pain swirls, it just fills them in temporarily (for however the quick detailer stuff stays on).

 

[Cordoba1]

I just don't believe in quick detailer's ability to protect paint. Even with the very deep respect I have for Meguiars, even their detailer doesn't protect properly. it also does nothing to remove the underlying pain swirls, it just fills them in temporarily (for however the quick detailer stuff stays on).

Agreed... Quick detailer is great for a quick shine between wax jobs, but it isn't a replacement for an "elbow grease" wax job. I frequently use the product as a last-step during a wax job as it both helps remove the last stubborn bits of wax haze, and brings the shine to dazzling levels.

 

[Jack Meoff]

I will correct myself because I came across the wrong way with what I meant.

Yes. I do wax my car occasionally. Very rarely actually but I do just to put a protective coat on it. But I don't do it frequently.

I use Meguiar's Quik Wax.
Leaves a great shine and water beads after.
That tells me there is a coating there.
No. It isn't the same as a real wax job but it does work pretty well AND I use it on my cars that never see rain.

 

[ramenth]

Being in Texas if you go clear coat make sure it is top quality or the clear coat will degrade if out in the sun. Look around at some of the clear coats on newer cars and trucks that have spent time in the sun. I have seen single stage polyurethane, or acrylic enamel hold up well in the sun. At least you could wash off the oxidation and buff/wax. Once clear coat starts to fail you can't bring it back by rubbing any type of compound on it. JMHO

The clear lifting has more to do with the thickness than the "quality." The car manufacturers are more interested in saving a few bucks per build to increase profitability than they are having the paint last over time, so they skip on that extra mil.