The Long Story of the '78 Dodge Diplomat Restoration

RobertP

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Greetings All!

I'm a mechanic's son who learned pretty much the hard way how NOT to do a lot of things before I learned (or was taught) how to do them right. My Dad worked along side me on my first project a 2 door '62 Falcon Futura modified production experience that went on for 7 years, about $3,000 (in 1967 dollars) and 100,000 miles before I finally sold the car to some kids in our neighbourhood. So to summarize, I can do electrical and mechanical work bumper to bumper, body work that includes welding, straightening and fitting new metal. Think that makes me a shade tree mechanic. I don't paint and never have.

I bought this '78 Diplomat 2 - door coupe new in Edmonton Alberta in February 1978. Drove it across Canada twice in the first year. For the first 7 years of its life it lived in Edmonton and never saw salt or rust. We moved to Oshawa Ontario in July 1985 and the car started to show signs of not liking the road salt environment about three years later. It had been undercoated using some sort of dealer applied epoxy sealer. The floor pan is still in excellent shape, while the trunk floor has some rust damage where the fuel tank supports mate to the underside of the trunk floor. I was going to remove the supports and repair the trunk floor pan by hand, but could never find a 'round to it' to complete that job (humor).

In 1992 I took the vehicle off the road and began to seriously begin the restoration. Pulled the 318 and transmission and sent both out to local shops. Re-assembled the engine in my garage while the transmission was rebuilt to a factory 3 speed lockup spec. Interesting story about the engine, the oil passage for number one rod journal had never been completely drilled, so the rod only received oil from number two rod once the oil pressure came up. Always had this curious tapping noise for 214,000 Kms with each oil change that only got discovered during tear down. And as luck would prove it, the vehicle was side swiped from front bumper to rear quarter in 1980 and susequently repaired by a recognized bodyshop in Edmonton. The only thing they missed was a hole left by one of those 'T' rivets used to hold moulding clips, and as a result the left rear quarter panel slowly rusted to death from the inside before I found the root cause of the damage.

My Project Goal:

My goal was to put it back to its factory showroom look when I bought it. The vehicle is fully loaded except for power antenna; - working AM/FM - 8 track stereo, AC, cruise, tilt, power windows, locks, trunk release and power 6 way bench seat. In 1983 I removed the troublesome Lean Burn Computer (after three limp mode failures) and converted it to a standard electronic ignition. I have, but have not installed an MSD ignition system and had planned to install a Melling cam, hydraulic lifters and valve springs but decided to hold off because the laundry list of projects needed to put it down on four wheels permanently was getting a little long. Right now I want to drop the K member and replace all the body mounts, control arm bushings, ball joints and related parts to firm up the 46 year old front suspension, install new brake master cylinder / booster, calipers, rotors and rear wheel cylinders, hardware and drums. I have all the parts, just need the energy to do the work.

And speaking of parts, I have a very long list of new, and NOS parts for the project that include rocker panels, front OEM fenders (need the fenders to fix the rear quarter wheel openings - quarter panels that were no longer available in 1989 when I started parts gathering), grill, headlight doors, hood ornament, door seals, wheel opening chrome (for all four corners), lower body and rocker mouldings, door welt mouldings, gas filler door, etc - about $2,400 USD in parts (in 1989 dollars). Many of the parts are still in the factory OEM boxes. Oh yes, and a new steering wheel from Tempe, AZ. (winters in Alberta were not kind to plastic). A door panel from a Chevy Dealer in Tennessee, and many parts no longer available found across North America.

The entire interior has been removed, cleaned with seat fabric replaced with original OEM cloth found in Michigan (somewhere). Headliner and visors were re-covered and ready to go back in. Some chrome no longer available was re-chromed to show quality by Jim's Chrome and Polishing in Scarborough Ontario. This included the remote mirrors, and the crown moulding that goes over the roof line 'B' pillar where the vinyl roof meets the body. All these parts and more rest quietly in four large wardrobe boxes in our basement. Fasteners are bagged and labeled. Had the bumpers re-chromed several years ago, but not to my standards so they will likely need re-chromed again. It sits on four new Coker American Classic 1.3" whitewall tires. The original Sears M+S tires were well beyond their best before date even though they had only seen 4,000 Kms along with the drivetrain.

And then, in a moment of inspiration in 2017, I installed a BendPak full height four post lift in our garage so the project would be up out of the way and turn my two car garage into a three car. It also meant I wouldn't have to crawl around on the floor any more, and at my age, I need all the help I can get.

Current Status:

I'm seriously considering finding a reputable shop (within reasonable driving distance) that can take this running, driving chassis and do all of the mechanical and bodywork to make it paint ready. They may even paint it. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

First picture is what started it all in 1968 .... The rest is history!

Robert

1962 Falcon - 1973.jpg
78 Dodge.jpg
IMG_2468.jpg
 
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Aspen500

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Dang, that's a heck of a story! I'm getting to the "at my age" point as well. Ain't getting old grand?

Just be careful of the "might as well", "while I'm at it" snowball, lol. Happened with my Aspen, and quite frankly,,,,,,,glad it did. :)
 

Mikes5thAve

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Cool story and neat you've had it all along and collected parts. Mine got a body job early 2000s and a lot of parts were already gone by then.
I have the same lampshade cone rims but mine sre solid and don't have those slots in them. Cones are solid too. Most seem to have those holes like yours.
 

RobertP

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Cool story and neat you've had it all along and collected parts. Mine got a body job early 2000s and a lot of parts were already gone by then.
I have the same lampshade cone rims but mine sre solid and don't have those slots in them. Cones are solid too. Most seem to have those holes like yours.
The factory name for the aluminum alloy wheels is 'road wheel' and they do make the vehicle stand out. The slots are covered up by the base of the cone so it looks like one piece. Was able to clean up the cones and re-paint the areas between the fins. I bought four new caps for them while they were still available. When the vehicle was 4 months old it needed a wheel balance and I caught an apprentice trying to pry the cones off with a screwdriver (OUCH!) Had to explain that the chrome caps needed to come off and two 3/8" bolts held the cone to a bracket bolted to the wheel. Mercury had a similar design in the 1980's, I think.

Mercury road wheel.jpg


I had a really good parts mgr at a Chrysler dealer in Scarborough Ontario who kept all the microfiche going back years and could search / scout the North American Chrysler warehouse system to find rare parts that were still stocked. Unfortunately he passed away about 8 years ago, and I have to say there will never be another skilled parts person quite like him.
 
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RobertP

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The factory name for the aluminum alloy wheels is 'road wheel' and they do make the vehicle stand out. The slots are covered up by the base of the cone so it looks like one piece. Was able to clean up the cones and re-paint the areas between the fins. I bought four new caps for them while they were still available. When the vehicle was 4 months old it needed a wheel balance and I caught an apprentice trying to pry the cones off with a screwdriver (OUCH!) Had to explain that the chrome caps needed to come off and two 3/8" bolts held the cone to a bracket bolted to the wheel. Mercury had a similar design in the 1980's, I think.

View attachment 54354

I had a really good parts mgr at a Chrysler dealer in Scarborough Ontario who kept all the microfiche going back years and could search scout the North American Chrysler warehouse system to find rare parts that were still stocked. Unfortunately he passed away about 8 years ago, and I have to say there will never be another skilled parts person quite like him.

Here's a shot taken shortly after the collision damage I mentioned earlier that shows the road wheels buffed to a brilliant shine. Factory clear coated them, but after a few years they went dull and the only way to clean them up was SOS pads followed by quality car wax. Wax would last a year or so and you had to do it again. Interesting note, the original metallic paint was single stage, but when the car was ready to re-paint, PPG Industries wanted to try a new two stage method that included a clear coat top coat. It looked great for about a year and a half and then started flaking, so they re-painted it again with the single stage and life went on.

Paint job 1980.jpg
 
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Mikes5thAve

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It's not that the slots are hidden, they're not there.
The clear coat was still on mine when I got the car they were on in 1999. They do look nice stripped and shined up. I painted the cones to match the car.

I usually left the cones off because with the brackets off centered they liked to move a bit and clang around on rough roads.

I have the microfiche pile from one dealer but the rwd ones are missing. I have the book version for several years. A lot of parts have been gone for a long time but the numbers are handy to have and the diagrams can be useful too.

20241013_190550.jpg
 

Gunnar Schroder

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Your story is facinating and very similar to mine. I bought her in 1991, changed the automatic gearbox as that packed in. Drove her till 2000 and put her away for 22 years before bringing her out in daylight again. Funny thing about rust as the same has popped up tn the trunk. Rust on the left side so a little welding is on the list. To check the rear axel I do have all parts for the 7 1/4" but also a
8 1/4" that may be what I will use later. Doing her up with a power antenna (got it on Ebay!) this spring and still have the original radio. Got hold of relay for the antenna thanks to Arizona Parts and some more stuff. At present I am looking for one whell arch, left side rear if I reall correct. My power sunroof is working after new rubber gastket on the side and front but rear of the sliding roof I have trouble getting the correct size. Still searching and perhaps a norwegian company may be able to help me. Same wheels as yours but have not yet buffet them to shining condition. Thing take time at our age. Mine is green and yours seem to be green or blue?
Thanks for shairing
Gunnar

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RobertP

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My paint colour is charcoal grey metallic (the factory name escapes me at present). Red interior. Would have been nice if it had the T-roof, but I don't think it was popular from a functional perspective back then as it tended to leak.

Yours has a nice leather wrapped steering wheel; - three spokes I note, while mine is a two spoke with an insert that you press to blow the horn. A good candidate for a rebuild / restoration!

I still have my Dad's '78 T-bird DJE in our garage BTW. Interesting how the fuse panel in these older vehicles starts to look like something out of the 1950's with a minimum of fuses to protect everything. Newer cars have dozens of fused circuits.

The Dodge, by any standard, would be a full-sized vehicle today but was intended as a mid-sized back in the day.
Dodge - Tbird - June 1978.jpg
 

Gunnar Schroder

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Thanks Robert for your comment and pictures. A nice T-Bird too and they do look similar to me. The steering wheel in mine was and extra if I recall correct. When dusting her off she started but the horn kept blowing. Teard off the centre and unplugged the contact. The fault was in the spokes as the film between the points had dried up. I used some rubber band to mend it as you can see from the picture. Arizona Parts helped me with a spare set and a lot of other spares as well. He is a fantastic man and very very helpful. I take the liberty of recommend him. He is in the forum here by the way as a contributor.
Having said all this I must tell you that the Sunroof is made in Canada those days. The company does still exsists but no spares for these old girls. I dropped them a mail some years ago asking for help regarding rubbern weatherstrips to replace those long gone. I know the rear weatherstrip is still around at some dealers, part number 4054 480. The original did not last long so I managed to buy some rubber ones from Denmark. However they should be narrower for a perfect fit. Still struggling with the front one.
Here is the address for the Canadian company who made the Sunroof. Perhaps they still have an old dog working there after those 47 years who may know the dimensions?
ASC - Sunroofs & Leather Interiors | Toronto/Mississauga - Katzkin Leather
Have a wonderful day.
Gunnar

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Sunroof 1.jpg


Sunroof 2.jpg


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Mikes5thAve

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ASC was a US company. I think that Canadian site is more an installer because here's another one.


There's a history of it here.


They also made the changes to LeBaron that ended up being the 5th Avenue, the landau roof and different trim and all that.
 

moparhead

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Greetings All!

I'm a mechanic's son who learned pretty much the hard way how NOT to do a lot of things before I learned (or was taught) how to do them right. My Dad worked along side me on my first project a 2 door '62 Falcon Futura modified production experience that went on for 7 years, about $3,000 (in 1967 dollars) and 100,000 miles before I finally sold the car to some kids in our neighbourhood. So to summarize, I can do electrical and mechanical work bumper to bumper, body work that includes welding, straightening and fitting new metal. Think that makes me a shade tree mechanic. I don't paint and never have.

I bought this '78 Diplomat 2 - door coupe new in Edmonton Alberta in February 1978. Drove it across Canada twice in the first year. For the first 7 years of its life it lived in Edmonton and never saw salt or rust. We moved to Oshawa Ontario in July 1985 and the car started to show signs of not liking the road salt environment about three years later. It had been undercoated using some sort of dealer applied epoxy sealer. The floor pan is still in excellent shape, while the trunk floor has some rust damage where the fuel tank supports mate to the underside of the trunk floor. I was going to remove the supports and repair the trunk floor pan by hand, but could never find a 'round to it' to complete that job (humor).

In 1992 I took the vehicle off the road and began to seriously begin the restoration. Pulled the 318 and transmission and sent both out to local shops. Re-assembled the engine in my garage while the transmission was rebuilt to a factory 3 speed lockup spec. Interesting story about the engine, the oil passage for number one rod journal had never been completely drilled, so the rod only received oil from number two rod once the oil pressure came up. Always had this curious tapping noise for 214,000 Kms with each oil change that only got discovered during tear down. And as luck would prove it, the vehicle was side swiped from front bumper to rear quarter in 1980 and susequently repaired by a recognized bodyshop in Edmonton. The only thing they missed was a hole left by one of those 'T' rivets used to hold moulding clips, and as a result the left rear quarter panel slowly rusted to death from the inside before I found the root cause of the damage.

My Project Goal:

My goal was to put it back to its factory showroom look when I bought it. The vehicle is fully loaded except for power antenna; - working AM/FM - 8 track stereo, AC, cruise, tilt, power windows, locks, trunk release and power 6 way bench seat. In 1983 I removed the troublesome Lean Burn Computer (after three limp mode failures) and converted it to a standard electronic ignition. I have, but have not installed an MSD ignition system and had planned to install a Melling cam, hydraulic lifters and valve springs but decided to hold off because the laundry list of projects needed to put it down on four wheels permanently was getting a little long. Right now I want to drop the K member and replace all the body mounts, control arm bushings, ball joints and related parts to firm up the 46 year old front suspension, install new brake master cylinder / booster, calipers, rotors and rear wheel cylinders, hardware and drums. I have all the parts, just need the energy to do the work.

And speaking of parts, I have a very long list of new, and NOS parts for the project that include rocker panels, front OEM fenders (need the fenders to fix the rear quarter wheel openings - quarter panels that were no longer available in 1989 when I started parts gathering), grill, headlight doors, hood ornament, door seals, wheel opening chrome (for all four corners), lower body and rocker mouldings, door welt mouldings, gas filler door, etc - about $2,400 USD in parts (in 1989 dollars). Many of the parts are still in the factory OEM boxes. Oh yes, and a new steering wheel from Tempe, AZ. (winters in Alberta were not kind to plastic). A door panel from a Chevy Dealer in Tennessee, and many parts no longer available found across North America.

The entire interior has been removed, cleaned with seat fabric replaced with original OEM cloth found in Michigan (somewhere). Headliner and visors were re-covered and ready to go back in. Some chrome no longer available was re-chromed to show quality by Jim's Chrome and Polishing in Scarborough Ontario. This included the remote mirrors, and the crown moulding that goes over the roof line 'B' pillar where the vinyl roof meets the body. All these parts and more rest quietly in four large wardrobe boxes in our basement. Fasteners are bagged and labeled. Had the bumpers re-chromed several years ago, but not to my standards so they will likely need re-chromed again. It sits on four new Coker American Classic 1.3" whitewall tires. The original Sears M+S tires were well beyond their best before date even though they had only seen 4,000 Kms along with the drivetrain.

And then, in a moment of inspiration in 2017, I installed a BendPak full height four post lift in our garage so the project would be up out of the way and turn my two car garage into a three car. It also meant I wouldn't have to crawl around on the floor any more, and at my age, I need all the help I can get.

Current Status:

I'm seriously considering finding a reputable shop (within reasonable driving distance) that can take this running, driving chassis and do all of the mechanical and bodywork to make it paint ready. They may even paint it. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

First picture is what started it all in 1968 .... The rest is history!

Robert

View attachment 54338View attachment 54339View attachment 54340
Very cool! Way to stick with it!! Fun ride
 

Gunnar Schroder

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Thanks for the information regarding the Sunroof. Interesting to see how close toghether in the Automotive USA and Canada was..... who knows the future will be?
 
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