Too much advanced timing?

slant6billy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Messages
2,971
Reaction score
694
So the Volare ran hot for the cruise and I been wanting to re tune for a while. So I pulled out the timing light and started getting at the distributor. The distro wrench was cheap and I had to rebend it. I was up against the firewall with it. I had to remover the 4 post ballast- so not to break it (again). So I loosened it up and started dialing in. The temperature was perhaps too hot, but a heat tune is where I want to be. I ended up putting 8 ° advance in. Perhaps 4 ° too much. Now the Volare wont go over 50 mph. I had to stop wrenching and get cleaned up, so I'll hit it tomorrow
 

Mcfly68

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
59
Reaction score
19
Base timing at operating temp, at set idle speed ( so your carb has to be set for mixture and idle speed first), with the vac advance disconnected should be 12deg BTDC...with about 34 degs all in ( still no vac advance hooked up) around the 2500 rpm range. An advance timing light is required obviously, and your starting points maybe out to lunch, your distributor might not go all in until 2600 rpm, but that will get adjusted later. some engines will like a bit more...some will like a little less. A keen ear is needed to determine the max amount with out detonation. I prefer to set all in timing, and as long as the base timing falls somewhere around the 12 deg mark ( lets say 8-14) then good as long as it starts well.base timing is used only during starting, and from the factory mechanical and vac advance where preset in the distributor for best emissions and fuel economy...so setting base brought the other numbers to facorty specs IF the distributor is up to snuff...springs get weak with age, weights bind up, and vac cans leak over time.like most things there is room for improvement and better performance through fine tuning.if you set total and the base comes in at 18-20..you need to carefully lengthen the fly weight slots in the distributor, as you arent getting enough mechanical advance. if you set your all in and the base comes in below the 8-10 mark. you need to shorten the fly weight slots ( mig them up a bit). Once you have max timing set and the base falls in line, then you can play with the springs to set up when and how fast the timing comes in...usually for the street two step in is optimal ( one light spring and one heavier...this will let one fly weight move out first and advance the timing some, then as rpm builds, the second weight will start moving out starting the second advance step and the combination of the 2 springs should have all the advance in somewhere around 2400 rpm mark..again all engines a little different). With out a distributor machine, this is all trial and error and can take a bit of time for someone not proficient at it. Once you have that all dialed in, THEN you can hook up the vac advance and you can start to get your cruising, light load timing dialed in. Different vac canisters have numbers stamped on the side..that is the amount of vac advance it will provide. some cans also have a little allen head screw in the vac nipple, they have an adjustable range. basically you want as much vac advance as the engine will take under light load with out detonation ( highway driving, light accel with out down shifting and not letting the engine drop below 5 or so hg...no vac and the can isnt working)
 
Last edited:

slant6billy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Messages
2,971
Reaction score
694
Base timing at operating temp, at set idle speed ( so your carb has to be set for mixture and idle speed first), with the vac advance disconnected should be 12deg BTDC...with about 34 degs all in ( still no vac advance hooked up) around the 2500 rpm range. An advance timing light is required obviously, and your starting points maybe out to lunch, your distributor might not go all in until 2600 rpm, but that will get adjusted later. some engines will like a bit more...some will like a little less. A keen ear is needed to determine the max amount with out detonation. I prefer to set all in timing, and as long as the base timing falls somewhere around the 12 deg mark ( lets say 8-14) then good as long as it starts well.base timing is used only during starting, and from the factory mechanical and vac advance where preset in the distributor for best emissions and fuel economy...so setting base brought the other numbers to facorty specs IF the distributor is up to snuff...springs get weak with age, weights bind up, and vac cans leak over time.like most things there is room for improvement and better performance through fine tuning.if you set total and the base comes in at 18-20..you need to carefully lengthen the fly weight slots in the distributor, as you arent getting enough mechanical advance. if you set your all in and the base comes in below the 8-10 mark. you need to shorten the fly weight slots ( mig them up a bit). Once you have max timing set and the base falls in line, then you can play with the springs to set up when and how fast the timing comes in...usually for the street two step in is optimal ( one light spring and one heavier...this will let one fly weight move out first and advance the timing some, then as rpm builds, the second weight will start moving out starting the second advance step and the combination of the 2 springs should have all the advance in somewhere around 2400 rpm mark..again all engines a little different). With out a distributor machine, this is all trial and error and can take a bit of time for someone not proficient at it. Once you have that all dialed in, THEN you can hook up the vac advance and you can start to get your cruising, light load timing dialed in. Different vac canisters have numbers stamped on the side..that is the amount of vac advance it will provide. some cans also have a little allen head screw in the vac nipple, they have an adjustable range. basically you want as much vac advance as the engine will take under light load with out detonation ( highway driving, light accel with out down shifting and not letting the engine drop below 5 or so hg...no vac and the can isnt working)

Thanks.
 

slant6billy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Messages
2,971
Reaction score
694
With 3/32 allen, I zeroed out the pot Clockwise. Brought the distributor back to 12° BTDC. Moved the Distributor to get a few more once to get it run good at 1000 RPM at idle. Drop it in gear and 850 RPM- No stall out. Got the 3/32 allen to a full counter clockwise turn. According to charts, that got me around 6° a Vac advance. NOT Done yet. I took it for a spin up and down my local highway. Did a few run ups to cruise - easy then hard- no ping ( not even close to ping yet). Afew red light launches - mini wheel spin.....I'm back in the game..... not my A game, but in the ballpark. I know where it needs to be.
 

gtsdude

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Messages
94
Reaction score
16
Location
SE MN
What is your total advance at? You can give it as much initial as it will take until the starter wants to kick when engine is up to temp, then back it off a couple degrees. I have my 340 set at 20 initial, 34 total, so 14 degrees in the dizzy all in by 2800. I do not run vacuum advance.
 
Last edited:

slant6billy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Messages
2,971
Reaction score
694
What is your total advance at? You can give it as much initial as it will take until the starter wants to kick when engine is up to temp, then back it off a couple degrees. I have my 340 set at 20 initial, 34 total, so 14 degrees in the dizzy all in by 2800. I do not run vacuum advance.

I have about 5° in the Vac advance (maybe 6° at most) and can go more. 26-28° in the mechanical, so almost the sweet spot of 34 to 35°. I'm not to good with the light, so those are my estimates. 2 cups of coffee would make any trigger finger/ shooting hand in the blazing saddles realm.
 

gtsdude

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Messages
94
Reaction score
16
Location
SE MN
Your initial and mechanical should be around 34 degrees total, your vac advance is on top of that and can be plugged while you set initial and recurve your dizzy. Are you using stock type mopar dizzy? Do you know what springs you have in it? The more initial timing you can give it the better it will launch. If you have the stock springs in the dizzy, you can change the heavier spring out for a lighter one and to get a quicker advance. Mr gasket has springs that work. You can either weld up or JB weld the slots to limit advance in the dizzy, here is a good starting point to take some guess work out of it. The 340 in my aspen had a stock dizzy in it when I first bought it, recurving the dizzy was the first thing I did and it makes a huge difference in off idle response, some of the factory springs are so stiff full advance isn't until 4,800 rpm

Modifying advance slots
degrees / slot size
6.............. .340
7................355
8................375
9................390
10...............405
11.5 ...........420
12...............435
13...............445
14...............460
15...............475
16...............490
17...............505
18...............520
 
Last edited:

Aspen500

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2015
Messages
7,084
Reaction score
2,802
Location
Rib Mountain, WI
If you don't want to mess with welding and filling slots, FBO has these available, can get one with a spring kit too, makes it easy.
http://www.4secondsflat.com/Mopar Mechanical timing limiter plate.htm

That would have made things a whole lot less work! I did exactly like it says, disassemble the dizzy, weld, file, measure with digital calipers, reassemble, reset initial to get the total I was after, drive the car, do calculations, pull the dizzy, lather rinse, repeat until I got it where it seems to work the best and then,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,hands off and leave well enough alone! lol

I suppose in the grand scheme of things it's not that big a deal to do except for that tiny little clip and my 50 year old eyes do not play well together.
 
Last edited:

gtsdude

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Messages
94
Reaction score
16
Location
SE MN
I did the same thing, although the chart helped narrow down how big I wanted the slots to start with and got me close. I have a newer Mopar dizzy in my Dart, it has a Mallory adjustable advance, bought a YH/YT advance kit, came with bunch of springs and keys marked with the number of degrees each will give you, way easier to set up.

MoparPerformanceDistributor.jpg
 
Back
Top