Whining rant on price$

[greymouser7]

I didn't see a FMJ Automotive discussion selection so I am posting here.

I understand that our cars are rare. We might be the least popular Mopar fanatics within our own school of fish outside of K car freaks (jk!) and other obscurities like the turbine Chryslers-

BUT!,

Why does that or the fact that we are Mopar Men & women paint a price target on our motley crew?

The prices some people ask for their wares is a hair more than ridiculous. We are not fans of the most expensive automobiles. In fact, it is QUITE the opposite! I personally like the F bodies. I jabbed a bit at one of the more unique rides listed here earlier. My perspective is not without flaws, but how does any businessman/woman ask for some of the 2005-pre-Katrina Mopar prices from us?

We are not the wealthy of the Mopar or Classic Muscle, or any of the automotive world. Our cars cost way less than most souped-up chevies, mustangs, or any other fast-or-class rides.

It really impresses me that our rides can really hold their own in performance against other rides. We have had many vehicles produced from 1976-1989. Our basic chassis & generic parts exchange back and forth. This makes these parts for our cars cheaper than most Mopars-in my opinion, very competitive against Foxbodies, Novas, Camaro's, import's, etc.

We don't have the expensive axles, traditionally sought after motors, or bodies.

Even the HUGE swing in the value or your individual currency through-out the global roads -big city versus empty-backwards-yesterday-prices cannot explain it.

Part of my influence and slanted point of view is that I live in the latter portion of the world. I don't pay what some pay in the Northeast, Southwest, & even le$$ than many in the city compete for.

Another problem working against my view is that moolah doesn't not pull as much value as it once did-even less than 8 years ago.

None of that is a large enough argument for the money sought by some within our domain.

I still don't think that there is any legitimate reason for the get-rich-off-of-one-sale prices.

My personal observation that most of us are from the working class (not rich) corners of society.

 

[Jack Meoff]

One of the problems...at least how I see it is....
The current headspace is if it's old it's gold.
Where does this headspace come from? Not from anyone who knows cars current value our has any sense of reality. It comes from the greedy ass kids of the people who owned these cars originally. I personally have never met anyone old enough to own any of these cars new who tried to ask some of the ridiculous prices being thrown around these days. What usually accompanies a ridiculous ad is "will trade for dirt bike, snowmobile, buttplugs (new preferred). These are not requests from a 50 year old guy who wants to sell his old F or M body. These are requests from a spoiled cheese eating school kid who saw a 72 Charger go for large and figures that he can ask retarded money......cause it's an old Plymouth.

That being said....the prices and desire for our cars is on the rise. But not to the tune of some of the all out stupid asking prices going on now.

I've seen ads for an 88 Fifth ave asking $6000!!!!???
I saw one asking $10,000.

The prices ARE rising....but really. Give your bloody head a shake..... Just my two cents.

 

[kkritsilas]

Part of it may be TV shows like Barrett-Jackson Auctions, Fast-N-Loud, Overhaulin', Counting Cars, etc., where a show host buys a car for low dollars, puts some time/moey into it, and comes out with a show car in a 1/2 hour or 1 hour show. A lot of emphasis is placed on how much profit or the price at the end of the restoration and rebuild effort, next to nothing on how much it took in terms of time and money to get there. Some people watching the show figure that they can wheel and deal like the people on the show, not keeping in mind that THIS IS A TV SHOW, not the real world, and they figure that they can outsmart buyers like they do on the TV show. Hence stupid pricing, and "car guys" who think they know it all, but in reality, have no sense of the car's collectibility/desireablity or value.

Kostas

 

[ramenth]

One of the issues?

The value of a car is set when the seller and a buyer agree on a price and money changes hands.

The seller can ask whatever he or she wishes for the car. Until a buyer comes along who is willing to pay said price, the car really has no value at all (excepting insurance). Don't like the price? Don't pay it. Eventually the seller will either move in price or give up the sale.

I can ask $1M for my M-body, but until someone comes along and pays that price it means nothing.

 

[Superpac Ninja]

The look of the car has some bearing on prices i think ,when i bought blue i had no idea what a aspen was nor that it was a mopar ,i bought it cause i loved the look of it ,period end of story ,factory options,rarity,motor,colour none of it mattered to me at all,it was all about the look ,,and i paid $4600 was that good? Was that bad? It dont matter ,i was willing to pay that for her and prob more just cause :eusa_boohoo: and if i ever sold her it would take alot more than that to pry her out of my hands ,not because its a f-body mopar ,

 

[Jack Meoff]

One of the issues?

The value of a car is set when the seller and a buyer agree on a price and money changes hands.

The seller can ask whatever he or she wishes for the car. Until a buyer comes along who is willing to pay said price, the car really has no value at all (excepting insurance). Don't like the price? Don't pay it. Eventually the seller will either move in price or give up the sale.

I can ask $1M for my M-body, but until someone comes along and pays that price it means nothing.

I totally agree....
The pisser though is....
I've seen nice M's that I'd consider buying but the seller wants stupid money.....so I walk away only to find out that once he came back to reality he sold it for less than I would have paid. By then the car is gone. I've even left my number and said if you change your mind give me a call. But I guess one the crack runs out it's a fire sale and I missed out on a nice car because the seller was initially a clued out dreamer.

The look of the car has some bearing on prices i think ,when i bought blue i had no idea what a aspen was nor that it was a mopar ,i bought it cause i loved the look of it ,period end of story ,factory options,rarity,motor,colour none of it mattered to me at all,it was all about the look ,,and i paid $4600 was that good? Was that bad? It dont matter ,i was willing to pay that for her and prob more just cause :eusa_boohoo: and if i ever sold her it would take alot more than that to pry her out of my hands ,not because its a f-body mopar ,

Which is the same reason I've dumped an easy $5000 into my Caravelle on top of what I paid and plan to sink another $5000+ easy.....this on a car that when it's done MIGHT fetch $4000 on as good day......I ain't selling.

 

[Mr C]

In addition to the contrived drivel cars shows already mentioned, I think one of the reasons why the FMJ cars are coming up is due also in part to their broad appeal and the muscle car slant in all of the so-called Mopar muscle car magazines.

In the 80's when the "Mopar Action" and the like magazines came out, they neglected anything but the A,B, E traditional stuff and they actually built up a market for these cars by building awareness (the Dukes of Hazard didn't hurt either). But now that the average man cannot afford to easily get into the hobby with an A,B, E car, they started penning articles of how the shadetree enthusiast could build himself a "world beater" car.

There are many articles that have since been penned of how a B/RB can be put into a Volare/ Aspen/ Cordoba/ Mirada etc. Or how an 80's Lean Burn smogger LA/ slant 6 can be woken up.

That and the fact that the FMJ cars can appeal to a broad audience- from the muscle car wanna be (who will likely pick a Roadrunner Volare or an Aspen R/T or Mirada CMX/ Cordoba S for the muscle car vibe or the plain Jane / AHB cruisers for the sleeper minded )- to the older buyer that wants a traditional luxury car that is of a manageable size (who will target the 5th Ave/ Imperial).

Couple that with the fact that these cars were not built of the most durable materials (F body plastic grilles- J body quarter end caps etc) and the fact that a lot of the NOS wasn't sought after or kept during the Muscle car boom means that NOS is scarce.

 

[greymouser7]

I'll NEVER pay those prices for the whole car, was thinking more along the lines of parts-listed here, craigslist, eBay, Kiji, etc.

When we built the Blackbird-it cost less than a thousand dollars for EVERYTHING. THat is not a lie or exaggeration. The hell raiser ($600 + 700 shipping initial vehicle) and the next R/T (rolling chassis $800 + 1600 for shipping initial vehicle) combined with the Black bird will all be built together for FAR LESS than $9K including two small blocks & 3X manual 833 transmissions.

NOSBILL, FMMPR ?, ORang???, on eBay ask a premium for a part that might pop up from someone else for as low as a dollar, but more often in the $20-50 range.

I know that Frank passed away recently, but his account is still active on eBay. I admit that I paid a ridiculous $75 for a rare Mopar auto-cross suspension setup book (Mopar Suspensions by Mike Martin) - but $125 for a book seems obscene- or $275 for some light bezels left in a box- for a non E-body, non 68-70 Charger, non GTS-440-383-340 Dart/Cuda, vehicle.

The 78-79 grilles through the $1000 dollar barrier by half again-I kind of understand the supply and demand thing-I am not including that or louvers, specialized body pieces.

>>"But now that the average man cannot afford to easily get into the hobby with an A,B, E car, they started penning articles of how the shadetree enthusiast could build himself a "world beater" car."<<

These vehicles are not viewed by the mainstream as highly-sought after, what logic explains why are people asking for gold for stuff that has been lying around for 30 years?

 

[Mopar_Gods]

I was gonna buy another 1977 Dodge Aspen and use it for all parts and or extra parts and the guy wanted $2700. So I asked him what kinda parts are left on it? He could not provide me with a parts list so I passed on the entire car and he said he could not believe it. Doesn't matter to me. The way I look at it if your selling something then you should expect some kind of loss and if your not willing to expect any kind of loss then why in the hell are you selling it in the first place.

When I bought my Aspen I gave a little more then I should have knowing it would be a job in the works but to me it is worth more to me then my Chevy's and to be honest my Dodge has been more of a challenge because of parts but with any old vehicle I have always welcomed the challenge and or knowledge. I will always prefer a slant six over a high performance V-8 any day of the week. This has always been a family passion handed down from father and son and from my late father and his late father. Might sound crazy to some people but that is because they have probably have never even owned a Mopar in there life time in the first place.

Will a F Body Dodge ever be worth a lot of money to most people no it wont be. But to me it is worth everything. And in all reality I do not care what others may think of the value. Had a guy ask me the other day ago how much did you give for the Aspen? I gave $1900.00. How much more you think you gonna put into the build? I replied to get it like I want it at least another $5000.00. He said why it is a Dodge. I said it is not just a Dodge. It is a Bad Ass Dodge and wont drink $100.00 a week in gas. Like your truck does. He had no response.

We all have Hobbies and things we all enjoy doing in life. I like taking my Fire Arms to the range and shooting them. I like hunting and or fishing. I like hanging out with the wife. But what do I love. What is my passion. What gives me real pleasure and joy. I love working on my 1977 Dodge Aspen 2 Door Coupe in my garage. There it is.

 

[greymouser7]

Will a F Body Dodge ever be worth a lot of money to most people no it wont be.

I think two factors will affect the FMJ vehicle market more than most over time. Most of the people that enjoy these cars are usually the people that grew up around them, developing an appreciation.

1. The people that enjoy these cars are getting older & fewer over the long term.

2. Older cars will become more and more rare so that those that do search for these vehicles will have to pay more and more.

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If you wanted to restore a 68-70 charger, e-body, older chevy, and many other vehicles, you could not do it for what what we put into the Blackbird. -unless it was 1985 or earlier.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think that these cars are undesirable, or anything along those lines.

It's just that the market for the whole vehicle I$ $O low, the part$ price$ don't line up with the vehicles.

 

[Jack Meoff]

Our cars are the last era of "cars".
After that it was bulbous jellybean "vehicles".
I believe our cars WILL go up in value.
Not like the other letters that are all the rage but they will go up simply because it's the last run of cool old school cars.
That's my belief anyway....
Either way I don't care....I love my M's and my F.
Value to someone else is a non issue to me.

I do understand what greymouser is saying though.
$1000 for a grille for a car that's with $1500 is ridiculous.

 

[greymouser7]

My father could only change his oil, plugs, & filter, tires. I did not come from a car loving family.

The look of the car has some bearing on prices...i bought it cause i loved the look of it ,period end of story

The above quote is EXACTLY the same reason I chose My Aspen-volare mix and my 73-74 Plymouth B-bodies.
If I could I would take the front clip off of the Road Runner and mate it to a 71-early 72 charger body and love it-but such talk is blasphemous quite often in the Mopar community.

Or, I would mount a 70-72 Dart swinger clip to a Australian Valiant Charger (though I think that the Aussie is a longer fender.?.).-maybe when I win the lotto.

Captain, I think that all of us will dump allot of money in our cars no matter what classic it is. The only vehicles that I have not dumped money into were:

A 1977 dodge D300: low compession, non-original 360, manual trans, flatbed. $600 initial price, $2600 total spent on everything but gasoline including re-wiring it. It's gone now though.

A couple of 1991 Civic's -some CV joints, oil, alternators, filters, plugs, tires. Both have less than $4-5K in them combined for the duration of my ownership. (drive to work or long distance car shows)

The wife's 2002 VW Jetta 1.8 turbo ($5000 - 83k miles when purchased) $600 tires and maintenance so far at 144,00 miles.

I bet Robert Ramenth and Rich SRTBB would be hard pressed to compete with those dollars to miles ratios.
And it's not about a competition or boasting either, it's about throwing money where I would rather spend or save it.

 

[Monkeyed]

I couldn't agree more. I bought mine from the owner's grandson. The son had it, but neglected i and still expected top dollar. For the amount of work I've put into it, it was still a pretty good deal, but if I'd had to add up labor costs! forget about it!! he had people sniffin around wanting to buy it to take to the scrapyard..

 

[Monkeyed]

my 3 year old is starting to get into cars, and I refuse to let him watch those shows where they try and flip cars for a profit like they're houses.. Wheeler Dealers is about the only one I watch with him, and he loves it. they are at least realistic about the risks, and efforts needed to overcome things as they come up, and are thrilled when they make a couple hundred in profit. Unlike one show I saw where they were all frowning and shaking their heads after "only" making about $65,000 in profit..

 

[Jack Meoff]

This is why I gave up cable six years ago....

 

[Superpac Ninja]

super high speed internet,300 gigs data
home phone with unlimited north America long distance
hd tv with 300 stations and 3 digital boxes
$150 a month all in
im happy ,ya just gota grind them
im with rogers ,

 

[Superpac Ninja]

i wouldent even have given this a second look but seeing as werer ranting on prices ,check this out ,ha ha ha ha
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-Aspen...Parts_Accessories&hash=item259cd8b6fc&vxp=mtr

 

[Jack Meoff]

super high speed internet,300 gigs data
home phone with unlimited north America long distance
hd tv with 300 stations and 3 digital boxes
$150 a month all in
im happy ,ya just gota grind them
im with rogers ,

It ain't the coin....
There hasn't been anything on tv to make me want cable for well over ten years.

 

[Jack Meoff]

i wouldent even have given this a second look but seeing as werer ranting on prices ,check this out ,ha ha ha ha
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-Aspen...Parts_Accessories&hash=item259cd8b6fc&vxp=mtr

Yeah right.....

 

[Superpac Ninja]

It ain't the coin....
There hasn't been anything on tv to make me want cable for well over ten years.

how would you know ??? you aint been watching ,lmfao ,like for instance theres a new series thats following the 2 dudes around looking for the remains of GIANTS ,yep giants use to walk the earth says this dude ,thats some quality viewing right there :hiding: