1987 Chyrsler 5th Avenue - Exterior Trim

Jack Meoff · Oct 23, 2015

Everytime I say anything to my buddy about imperfections in any work I've done he hands me his sunglasses.
He says put them on and when I do he says "how's it look now? "

Justwondering · Oct 23, 2015

:glasses2:

Jack Meoff · Oct 23, 2015

We do the best we can and in lieu of paying someone big bucks to do it.....it's better than someone who doesn't love these cars would ever do. I'd say you're doing an excellent job and you should be totally proud of your work.

Aspen500 · Oct 24, 2015

That's the way it goes, isn't it? I can pick out all sorts of flaws in my car but it looks perfect to everyone else and IF I had an ego it would be inflated to the point of bursting. Since I have no ego, there's no chance of an explosion LOL. We are our own worst judges, or something to that effect.

Justwondering · Oct 31, 2015

We've had about 7 inches of rain in the past 10 days and the vinyl roof is holding up pretty good.

I didn't get it quite finished before the weather hit. There is a gap at the lower inside edge of the bonnet window and it lets water get trapped between the bonnet and the window. So I have to wait til it dries out in a couple of days and silicone the entire inside edge.

Also, I cleaned a healthy amount of aged/compromised butyl from the original bonnet install. But I didn't get enough of it off. The rivets across the top of the roof went in fine and sit close to the metal.

The rivets across the bottom, under the window, sit way too high. Too much old butyl sitting in the way. If I had to do it again, I'd remove more of the butyl from the top and all around the outside edges to ensure the bonnet sits flush on the body before I put new butyl on and install it. I'd also get something really heavy or someone to help push the bonnet more firmly down onto the roof.

Here is the problem:

There is nearly a 1/2 inch gap between the bonnet and the body of the car just up from the trunk area.

I had to move from the 1/8 inch rivet with a short 1/4 inch grip to a 1/8 inch rivet that has a 1/2 inch grip.

Means I will have to silicone the bottom bonnet edge to ensure water doesn't wick back up under the vinyl/bonnet before I put on the belt molding.

lowbudget · Mar 30, 2016

I'm fixing to give this a try this set of days off when I get home. Weather permitting as it is snowing there right now. I thought about farming it out but decided to do it myself since I have the top and landau foam. I have a body and paint friend who said he will help so it should go smooth.....yeah right. I imagine I will be asking some questions, when the time comes. I'm hoping I caught it in time as the old vinyl is just starting to crack.

Justwondering · Mar 30, 2016

When you pull that bonnet off, remove all/most/a great deal of the butyl on the cab.

I left way too much butyl (which is that black goo they used to 1. 'glue' the fiberglass to the metal cab and 2. prevent water intrusion under the edge of the bonnet around the glass.)

I'll take a picture but there where some mistakes I made and I will definitely be redoing this next year after I save enough for the paint job.

Mistakes:
1. Left too much black, original butyl on the cab. Get a grinder and get it off there. Some of it will be brittle and lend itself to grinding. Some of it will still be pliable and you need to use some pliers to pull/worry it off. WEAR GLOVES. That black gunk sticks to your skin, your shirt, your gloves. Ugh.

2. Get a little thicker closed cell foam pad. I used 1/8 inch. I think I should have doubled up or should have put a thicker pad. Course mine was free but I should have used thicker. It really shows when you get next to the plastic molding on the side windows. Carry that pad all the way to the plastic and make sure it is the same height as the plastic. I have an obvious seam line on both sides.

3. Carry the foam pad further out than where the chrome belt molding will hit it the bottom edge (especially). I didn't and there is a definite recess line just before the molding at the base of the bonnet just above the trunk line.

4. There is no easy way to cut the curves for the window in the back. I would go to the fabric store and buy a sacrifice piece of 'vinyl' or man-made pleather... something similiar to what you are going to put on. Practice cutting the inside corners of the window... go ahead and cement it on lightly to the bonnet and try cutting and fussing with it to get it to wrap to the inside corner of the window. I mucked up the first corner but by the time I got to the third corner, I did pretty good.

5. Don't cut your outside edge across the bottom (especially the bottom outside corners) until you have the bonnet fastened onto the car. I guesstimated and got it wrong on 1 corner. Carry your padding past the edge of the molding especially under the section between the side windows and the back window edge. Once side looks okay, but the other is recessed. So just really pay attention to what it looks like when you pull the original off the car so you can a better fit when you put yours on.

PM me if you'd like my phone number and we can discuss details. I can take pictures and text you info as I do a walk around so you can better see the problem areas I'm talking about.

lowbudget · Apr 1, 2016

Thank you for the info. I'll be getting ahld of you. Hopefully I have the right landau pad.

Justwondering · Jun 6, 2016

Talk about delay of game. I stopped dinking with the roof in October of last year. Life gets in the way sometimes.

The story is almost complete. Today was generally a success..
When last I left off, I still needed to fix the opera lights on each side.
Several forum threads here and on other sites got me to that solution.

So the new vinyl is on, the leaks I introduced into the trunk have been fixed, all the trim pieces on the inside are covered - except for the two funky pillars up front and the two sun visors.

Today I finished installing vinyl covered, opera light wings(?) on each side.
Here is the driver side:

There is one small screw at the top of the door and two rivets under the belt molding (which almost lines up with the rear belt molding- drats).

Here is the passenger side:

And yes, all hands came running when I looked at this side and screamed. More than once.

Because, there in front of me is a wonderful-went-to-extra-effort-to-get Fifth Avenue Decal ... which I completely forgot to put on the driver's side before I riveted it to the car.

Well hog fizzle.

So, then I spent another 30 minutes removing the rivets - carefully and getting still sticky silicone all over me.

Holes prepped.

Decal in place.
There is still one small screw at the top and two rivets at the bottom that hold that piece on the car.

BudW · Jun 6, 2016

Justwondering said:
hog fizzle

Not heard that one before.

Can you recap on what and how much materials you used?
Follow up question, if doing same repair again, any more (or less) or different materials to be used?

Justwondering · Jun 7, 2016

Recap:
Realize that this was two projects (exterior vinyl roof and interior trim). Time consuming. Not hard. But you will have a big time sink to do this by yourself. The only trim pieces you can't do 1 at a time are the rear ones around the backseat. You don't want to have the put the seat back in and out more than once. Everything else could be done 1 or two pieces on a weekend if you have a daily driver. Then, next weekend do another 1 or two pieces, repeat til all pieces are done. Vinyl roof is more like an all weekend affair if you already have all your materials (vinyl, foam, brushes, glue, butyl, etc.)

1. Take pictures. Put screws in baggies. Mark the baggies. Keep things separated (sunvisor screws in one bag, rear insert screws in another, side insert screws in a separate bag). I still don't have the correct screws in some places - too short in one, to wide in another and cracked the fiberglass. Pictures of the interior trim (especially the backside of the piece) are really helpful. If you wrap too much fabric to the back, it makes it impossible to line up and lay right when you put it back in the car.

2. Use 2 long straps to thread through the car and hold the headliner up while you are futzing getting the dome light out/in. Like have 2 extra people to help. I opened both front door, ran a strap through and put the tightener on the top of the car on top of a piece of cardboard so it wouldn't scratch the paint. Release or tighten as needed to drop or raise the headliner.

3. Buy 2 yards of fabric for the headliner. Buy 2 yards of felt for the headliner. Put the felt on first. Cover the felt with the fabric.

4. If your headliner is toast, use foamboard (1/4 inch thick). Don't use 1/2 inch, its to stiff.

5. To reduce heat gain and noise, put radiant barrier between outer skin and headliner. It make a huge difference. Got mine from Home Depot. Any type will work. I put the aluminum side toward the interior of the car.

6. Unless you are good at drilling out rivets, buy extra drill bits (4).

7. There is no easy, elegant way to get the headliner out. But through the rear door was only way to go. It will bend. Do not worry about the wrinkles you make putting it back in. Heat gun can get those out.

8. The rear seat will be frustrating to remove, but once out you realize how stupid simple its made. Rust will be the reason it wasn't easy to get out.

9. Buy your vinyl replacement from a company that sews them the correct shape.

10. Use closed cell foam thicker than 3/8 inch. I used some foam which came in a package. It was too thin. This mainly is an issue around the edge of the windows near the wings. I could have used it if I had doubled it on those wings. Live and learn.

11. Buy a gallon of contact cement.

12. Buy 5 or 6 .. 2 inche brushes and a couple of 3 or 4 inch brushes for the contact cement. Get chip brushes. Cheap brushes which do not have nylon or plastic bristles. Use them and throw them away.

14. Grind off all and I mean all of the butyl if you take the bonnet off. I didn't and I had a gap at the bottom. That gap now has silicone filling it to keep water out.

15. There will be rust around the rivet holes where the base of the bonnet sits on the body of the car. Be prepared to fix the problem. I used a dremel. The sheet metal is very thin in that area. My practice welding on another piece didn't go well. So I used JB Weld after I had removed the rust. This let me build up the area so I could put in a rivet on the bonnet.

16. Butyl gets everywhere no matter what precautions you take. Worse than red fingernail polish.

17. Tape the vinyl on the bonnet while the bonnet is on the car. Use the opera window inserts to figure out where to cut the material that is going to cover the inserts. Cut the material and set it aside with the opera window inserts. Removing this extra material before you start gluing makes it much easier.

18. Get a piece of plywood and put it on two sawhorses for a worktable you can walk around. Working on the back of the ford was no fun. I finally had to get up in the bed of the truck and work most of the top and sides bent over at the waist working from knee height down to the bed of the truck.

19. Don't even try to use gloves. Once the cement gets on them they rip and tear. Just use your hands.

20. Use a t-shirt to put your hand in so you can rub the air bubbles out of the vinyl and make it lay flat. A rubber roller didn't work well for me.

21. Pulling the old fabric off the plastic trim pieces is tedious. Get a chair with no arms to sit in (cushion in chair). Have a cool beverage available. Sit under a shade tree.

22. Take pictures of the backside of each trim piece before you remove the fabric. Special attention to the corners and curves. I didn't do this and fought excess fabric where pieces overlaid other trim pieces. Had to put things up, realize they wouldn't lay right because the bottom piece had too much fabric. Pull things back apart. Remove excess fabric and put it all back in again. I regretted not documenting things better.

23. The plastic trim is forgiving. Its going to be recovered in fabric. I used pliers, needlenose, putty knife, box cutter, wire brush, rough sandpaper, and time to remove the fabric and the glue. The fabric comes off easy. The glue is difficult on some pieces and easy on others.

24. Remove as much glue from the trim as you can. Get it relatively smooth or the bumps will telegraph through the fabric.

25. Put the headliner in while the back seat is out. Which means you need to recover 3 pieces of trim before you put the headliner in. The curved metal piece across the front of the window. The two side metal pieces above the doors. Use the straps lift the headliner up. Use the trim and screws to keep it in place while you finish up placement of everything else.

26. You have to put the rear bottom trim pieces in before the seat goes in. Take an old towel and cover the trim before you lift the seat in. The seat is long, heavy and awkward. You will rake it across your newly covered trim and cause holes and rips as you manhandle it into position. Trust me, use towels.

27. Its worth it as I look back over the pictures at how bad it was when I started.

FredMcJoe · Aug 30, 2017

My Los Angeles all its life 5th Ave is quite rusty on its RR corner of the roof cap. A couple of wet years in Portland will do that I suppose. So, my next step is going to be drilling out a few of these rivets and re-riveting with stainless. The rust goes way under the cap's edge so I need to get it lifted up some.

It was nice that the metal trim moulding is a press-in fit though that's probably as much of the cause of the rust as the rivets. Rust has eaten away at one of the holes. For the rust, I'm using Rust 411, it removes rust thru a chelation process, then I suppose I'll JBWeld it up afterward.

Any thoughts on trying to mount the cap on plastic spacers so that this thing will drain off the rain? Like putting plastic washers under the cap at each rivet? I may try that. Some of the rivets don't appear in-line ...even. Hmm.