383 RB swap into j body?

UtahJbodyNut

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OK guys so some things have changed due to well lol others greed. Anyways I have access to a few 383/727 setups from 68-73 and was curious what would be needed to drop this into my 80 Mirada CMX with a 360/904. I was thinking k frame as that is the normal route but then I thought as I was speaking to a mopar guru that there were no big block j bodies so where would I get one from and in this case do I need one? Or is it a motor mount and other small things needed swap? Thanks.
 

Wagonmaster

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www.engine-swaps.com will get you the big block mounts to drop it in. Some minor mods to the wiring harness (mainly just dist. location) and should go in. Im gonna be using the Hedman B body headers though I hear some of the stock manifolds will fit too.
 

Shorty Thompson

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Well , not to be a smart "A" but there's no such thing as a 383 RB , they're lo-blocks . As for the worry about the 383 fitting in with difficulty, as I recall all you should need is a set of 400 motor mounts , then you'll need to address the tranny mount . I'm thinking that the tranny mount location is futher back . Not much , just a little . I was looking at doing a bb in a "J" a while back and seen it would work , with a little work . Good luck ! Love to see your progress .
 

Wagonmaster

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If you go with the Schumacher mounts the tranny will line up in stock location. Im getting close to dropping mine in (or going in from the bottom). Ill take lots of pics. It will probably be in the next month or so
 

efriedrich

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(or going in from the bottom)

Were still talking cars, right?
 

Wagonmaster

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Sometimes it works better that way in either situation.

Ill probably drop the frame and bolt it in from the bottom. That way I can get the headers around the steering and bolted on good with plenty of room. Its gonna be a tight squeeze getting it in :ky:
 

therick215

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You will have to change the power brake booster to a smaller diameter one. I used a omni/horizon one. Drop the engine in from the top. The headers slip right up in from the bottom. Put starter in first. Trans will bolt right up to crossmember. put the 360 engine mounts on the 383 and drop it in. I have a 383 in my 80 Diplomat and used the 318 engine mounts bolted right up. You will have to have the driveshaft shortened and put a 727 yoke on it. You will need a C body oil pan #187.
 

Remow2112

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BB swap.

I have done this in my 77 Roadrunner. It is not bad and can be done with stock parts. I posted a write up on here and a couple of other Fbody type boards.

If you can't find it, let me know and I will repost it.


Dan...
 

UtahJbodyNut

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OK so my friend says ur all full of it its not this easy because nothing is the same. Which I know certain things are but he says Schumacher mounts are not good either and don't allow a straight drop in. He said u need a new custom drive shaft new brake lines booster power steering and I think that's it other than it ain't simple and such. And Schumacher stuff needs to be messed with in order to work right. So can those of u who have done it tell me how u did and what was needed? Thanx
 

Wagonmaster

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A 413 came out of mine (F body) and fit good with the Schumacher mounts. They were for a slant 6 frame to big block. It can be done. It had manual steering and brakes which probably helped room wise. Every situation is different though

I dont know why you'd need new brake lines or drive shaft. A stock 727 small block drive shaft would fit the same. He may need to catch up on some research. Ive used the Schumacher mounts on slant 6 to small block also. Good quality products

042809143610 (Small).jpg
 
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Remow2112

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About your friend

I call foul. Here is my write up of sticking a BB in an F-body. There is also no reason you should not keep the power steering.

I have included a photo of the 400 in my 77 Volare. The gentleman just before my post appears to have wedged a 440 in his car!

Here is the deal. I did this for a mostly drag race car.
1. I have manual steering.
2. Used factory late model BB spool motor mounts.
3. The tranny mount (not the cross member) needs a little modifications.
4. Hedman Hedders 78030 work great in a Volare.
5. I put in a cheap 26" aluminum radiator with the upper and lower ports matching a BB.
6. Milodon 30931 oil pan
7. I am using manual brakes. You can stick with PB but you will need to find a different power booster that will clear the valve cover. An A-body one might work.

Details:
Using the stock motor mounts will put the engine about a 1/2" further forward then using the Schumacher conversion mounts and a little taller. What I did was got a set of beat BB motor mounts and drilled some 1/4" holes through the rubber on the engine side of each mount. (They sit just a little wide and you need some extra give. I also trimmed the extra rubber and metal off the front and back of the motor mounts making them flush to the spool insert front and back. If you don't do that when you get it in the K frame mounts it tweaks the engine so it sits crooked in the engine bay. You will need to buy a bunch of flat washer and cut slots out of the bottom. When you trim the spool ends it leaves a gap on the K-frame mount and you have to fill the gap before you tighten down or you will never get them tight. I did that with cheap washers.

The only mod I did on my K frame was on the passenger side at the front of the motor mount. There is a long thin v fin towards the front of the car. I took a grinder and cut it off because the engine block hits it.


The tranny mount has 2 slots. You need to cut them open on the end that goes to the front of the car. You will then be able to have enough adjustment to get it connected to the 727 tranny. If you weld you can extend the slots.

I used the headers listed above. There are 2 styles of BB headers (that I have seen) this version will not work, Hooker Headers 5209HKR. It has the 5 tube cross over and the 7 sticks out. The 7 will not clear the steering.

You cannot use a small starter or modern starter. It will hit the header tube. They sell expensive indexable style starters that will work. I just bought a old style 440 starter (It has a longer motor and a little more torque) For those that will ask, I did try banging some clearance in a headers tube to fit the small style starter. I got the tube to half the original diameter and gave up. Not worth it to loose that much flow in 1 tube. I have not had an issue with heat saturation to the starter yet.

For a drive shaft I went and found one out of a 70 station wagon and had it shortened. I would not recommend using the small diameter drive shaft. I have a mild 400 and it feels radically different launch then my 375hp 360.

I also chose to cut part of the fender well out on the passenger side to make it easier to get to the #6 spark plug. All the rest are easy. If you don't want to go that route you can drill a 1.5" hole in front of the #6 and get to it that way. The plug wire will still be a pain.

Oil pans: I started with a 699 (this is a number stamped in to the bottom of the pan ... Follow this link for an oil pan breakdown: http://www.440source.com/oilpans.htm) But the one I had did not have any baffles. After talking to a friend that has been racing BB Mopar for 20 years I switched to the Milodon listed above. He said that with a good launch and no baffles ( i am not exactly clear on what he considers a good launch :) His car runs in the mid 10's.) you will starve the bottom bearings. He then warned me that it could still be done with a baffled stock oil pan so I chickened out and ponied up some cash. Back to oil pan options.

Mopar pans 699, 971, and 187 should fit fine. 971 is best just due to the extra room from the front of the pan to where the sump starts and you can still buy one from Mopar 5007807.
These are all 5 quart pans and if you are just street driving. I would just find a used stock pan and go for it. Most generic aftermarket oil pans are elongated 187 pans. Using a 187 or 699 might require a little trimming on the lip on the back of the k frame where the sump sits.

Do not try to put the engine and tranny in together. The engine hits the firewall and prevents the oil pans from clearing the k frame. I tried!

I also chained down the driver side of the engine since I beat up on the motor mounts quite a bit.

There is no reason that this could not be done with a 440 but the extra 1/2" a side is going to make the passenger side even tighter fit.

If you have your act together there is not reason that you couldn't put a BB in your F or a normal weekend. But they will be long days.

Dan...

IMAG0033.jpg
 

therick215

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Here's my reply to you: The engine and trans I used came out of a 71 Polara 383 with all acc. and trans.
1) I have power steering. Replaced pressure valve in the 1971 pump with one out of the 1980 pump and used original hose to the Diplomat.
2) Used factory SB spool mounts. Bolted right up and I didn't have to drill or cut them like you did.Which weakens them.
3) If you use the trans mount to your body it will bolt up to the 727 trans and bolt right up to the crossmember with no modifications.
4) Any headers will work. I have Black Jack headers from the 70's in mine. Also tried my son's BB Hookers for an Abody also fit. Depending on which headers you use you can use a small starter.
5) A C body 187 oil pan works great. Car runs 11.50
6) If you have your car lifted on stands you can put the engine and trans in together. I know this is how I done it.


Here is the deal. I did this for a mostly drag race car.
1. I have manual steering.
2. Used factory late model BB spool motor mounts.
3. The tranny mount (not the cross member) needs a little modifications.
4. Hedman Hedders 78030 work great in a Volare.
5. I put in a cheap 26" aluminum radiator with the upper and lower ports matching a BB.
6. Milodon 30931 oil pan
7. I am using manual brakes. You can stick with PB but you will need to find a different power booster that will clear the valve cover. An A-body one might work.

Details:
Using the stock motor mounts will put the engine about a 1/2" further forward then using the Schumacher conversion mounts and a little taller. What I did was got a set of beat BB motor mounts and drilled some 1/4" holes through the rubber on the engine side of each mount. (They sit just a little wide and you need some extra give. I also trimmed the extra rubber and metal off the front and back of the motor mounts making them flush to the spool insert front and back. If you don't do that when you get it in the K frame mounts it tweaks the engine so it sits crooked in the engine bay. You will need to buy a bunch of flat washer and cut slots out of the bottom. When you trim the spool ends it leaves a gap on the K-frame mount and you have to fill the gap before you tighten down or you will never get them tight. I did that with cheap washers.

The only mod I did on my K frame was on the passenger side at the front of the motor mount. There is a long thin v fin towards the front of the car. I took a grinder and cut it off because the engine block hits it.


The tranny mount has 2 slots. You need to cut them open on the end that goes to the front of the car. You will then be able to have enough adjustment to get it connected to the 727 tranny. If you weld you can extend the slots.

I used the headers listed above. There are 2 styles of BB headers (that I have seen) this version will not work, Hooker Headers 5209HKR. It has the 5 tube cross over and the 7 sticks out. The 7 will not clear the steering.

You cannot use a small starter or modern starter. It will hit the header tube. They sell expensive indexable style starters that will work. I just bought a old style 440 starter (It has a longer motor and a little more torque) For those that will ask, I did try banging some clearance in a headers tube to fit the small style starter. I got the tube to half the original diameter and gave up. Not worth it to loose that much flow in 1 tube. I have not had an issue with heat saturation to the starter yet.

For a drive shaft I went and found one out of a 70 station wagon and had it shortened. I would not recommend using the small diameter drive shaft. I have a mild 400 and it feels radically different launch then my 375hp 360.

I also chose to cut part of the fender well out on the passenger side to make it easier to get to the #6 spark plug. All the rest are easy. If you don't want to go that route you can drill a 1.5" hole in front of the #6 and get to it that way. The plug wire will still be a pain.

Oil pans: I started with a 699 (this is a number stamped in to the bottom of the pan ... Follow this link for an oil pan breakdown: http://www.440source.com/oilpans.htm) But the one I had did not have any baffles. After talking to a friend that has been racing BB Mopar for 20 years I switched to the Milodon listed above. He said that with a good launch and no baffles ( i am not exactly clear on what he considers a good launch :) His car runs in the mid 10's.) you will starve the bottom bearings. He then warned me that it could still be done with a baffled stock oil pan so I chickened out and ponied up some cash. Back to oil pan options.

Mopar pans 699, 971, and 187 should fit fine. 971 is best just due to the extra room from the front of the pan to where the sump starts and you can still buy one from Mopar 5007807.
These are all 5 quart pans and if you are just street driving. I would just find a used stock pan and go for it. Most generic aftermarket oil pans are elongated 187 pans. Using a 187 or 699 might require a little trimming on the lip on the back of the k frame where the sump sits.

Do not try to put the engine and tranny in together. The engine hits the firewall and prevents the oil pans from clearing the k frame. I tried!

I also chained down the driver side of the engine since I beat up on the motor mounts quite a bit.

There is no reason that this could not be done with a 440 but the extra 1/2" a side is going to make the passenger side even tighter fit.

If you have your act together there is not reason that you couldn't put a BB in your F or a normal weekend. But they will be long days.

Dan...

IMAG0033.jpg
[/QUOTE]

1012100928a.jpg
 

Greg55_99

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Details:
Using the stock motor mounts will put the engine about a 1/2" further forward then using the Schumacher conversion mounts and a little taller. What I did was got a set of beat BB motor mounts and drilled some 1/4" holes through the rubber on the engine side of each mount. (They sit just a little wide and you need some extra give. I also trimmed the extra rubber and metal off the front and back of the motor mounts making them flush to the spool insert front and back. If you don't do that when you get it in the K frame mounts it tweaks the engine so it sits crooked in the engine bay. You will need to buy a bunch of flat washer and cut slots out of the bottom. When you trim the spool ends it leaves a gap on the K-frame mount and you have to fill the gap before you tighten down or you will never get them tight. I did that with cheap washers.

The only mod I did on my K frame was on the passenger side at the front of the motor mount. There is a long thin v fin towards the front of the car. I took a grinder and cut it off because the engine block hits it.

I did something similar to the drivers side motor mount in my 77 RR when I dropped in the 413. I moved the rubber part forward a hair and pinned it with a set screw. This was strictly 1980, low bucks. Since I'm giving myself a "do-over" I may mod the K-frame the way Direct Connecton did or go with a set of Schumaker mounts. I really NEED that 1/2" down and back for the exhaust manifolds to fit properly.

Greg

RR_MM.jpg
 

Remow2112

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Exhaust

Greg,

Check out the headers I used. It is well worth it just for the performance. They use a ball collector. They seal up real well. If you get dynomax ultra flo mufflers and run 2.5 or 3" system out the back every time you step on it you will grin like crazy.

I wish I thought of moving the rubber insert like you did on your car. That looks soooo much cleaner.


Dan...
 

Shorty Thompson

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This 1 should be a good fit in there also . I researched this after I seen a "F" body wagon running a big block and this was what I came up with .

BbmoilpanMoroso.gif
 
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