413 in a 88 Gran Fury

M Body General Discussion

  1. Ele115

    Ele115 Well-Known Member

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    It's in and it runs, but last time I did this swap I didn't write very much down, other than a few part numbers and prices. What little I kept track of is on my wife's old laptop. It overheats if it idles a long time and needs a radiator. I think I used a pickup radiator but I really don't remember, it could have been from a van. Any ideas? Going to want a good fan shroud, probably no electric fan BS with this although it helps with A/C pressures so I could get a couple Spal-12's from my supplier. Looks like the hood will probably close this time, but there won't be much room to spare. A/c lines have to be dealt with and the gas gauge and some other stuff which isn't related to the engine change. This time around I'm writing stuff down and keeping it in two places. I may want to do one more with a hot 440 and injection. Or I could be a total redneck and put a 318 Detroit and two 9 inch smokestacks, but I have a cyanide capsule for just in case I am that far gone.
     
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  2. XfbodyX

    XfbodyX Well-Known Member

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    There is really no reason why you cant use your oem rad and shroud if its a good functioning unit, my 440 f car as well as other I know of use a oem rad in good working order with no problems.
     
  3. Aspen500

    Aspen500 Well-Known Member

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    I've got a 360 F-body radiator (26") in my car that the local rad shop installed a 3 row core. With a shroud and thermostatic clutch fan, I've never seen the temp pointer go past the center on the stock gauge. That's on a 90 degree day, with the A/C on MAX going up a long, very steep hill on the way home from work. 500" stroker BB, btw.
    Also, it has a high volume Milidon water pump and hi-flow t-stat. I'm pretty sure the t-stat is a 180 unit, just don't remember exactly what I put in. Could have been a 192 also.
     
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  4. Oldiron440

    Oldiron440 Well-Known Member

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    I just used the HD cooling 360 radiator in my Volare and it kept my big blocks cool. I used a rt side water pump housing on the 440 and a hose reducer on the lower hose.
    I had my bodyshop at the time so I used one of my radiator suppliers for the radiator shroud was used.
    The only drawback is the radiator is heavy.
     
  5. Ele115

    Ele115 Well-Known Member

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    The big thing, as always the fit on the port side. Good Lord! You have to want power steering really badly.
     
  6. Aspen500

    Aspen500 Well-Known Member

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    Should have mentioned, like Oldiron, I have a right side exit pump housing also, so the hose comes out on the same side as the radiator nipple. Because of the way the k-frame is made, a drivers side lower hose nipple on the radiator doesn't really work. The housing came from 440Source, one of their later ones after they got the passages unrestricted. Heard the early ones had flow problems.
    In my cars previous life, it had a cast iron left outlet housing and I ran the hose all the way across to the passenger side. It worked but was not ideal. Never had any problems with the power steering though.

    2001079.jpg
    DSC00356.JPG DSC00357.JPG
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2019
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  7. Oldiron440

    Oldiron440 Well-Known Member

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    Chrysler went to the RT side housing on all BB sometime in the mid 70s then used the same radiator for both big and small blocks. The 440 in the avatar has a cast iron housing.
     
  8. Duke5A

    Duke5A Well-Known Member

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    Availability of quality OEM style radiators is just about non-existent. You'll probably have a much easier time looking through Champion's catalog for a universal 26" that will fit.

    If you can stick with a driver's side outlet pump housing. I have a passenger one on mine and no good way to mount or even fabricate a nice timing pointer. Most likely going to go back to a standard aluminum housing and come up with something for plumbing the lower radiator hose.

    Electric fans are nice and you most certainly don't need to go aftermarket. Most aftermarket offerings are stupid expensive for less than advertised air flow. Look around for OEM. I'm using a twin setup pulled from a V6 Ford Contour I got for $25. Fits a 26" radiator nicely. Splurge on a nice two speed controller like the one from Dakota Digital.

    Cheers.
     
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  9. Aspen500

    Aspen500 Well-Known Member

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    You're right about the timing pointer deal. I ended up painting a line on the pump housing at TDC. The pointer is under there but you can't see it.
    I suppose another way would be remark the balancer and put a pointer on the other side.
     
  10. Oldiron440

    Oldiron440 Well-Known Member

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    Milodon has a pointer that works with the passenger side water pump housing.
     
  11. BudW

    BudW Moderator Staff Member

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    The Chrysler big blocks all had driver side lower radiator hose from ’59 to ’71. 1972-79 big blocks (car or truck) had passenger side lower radiator hose.

    Chrysler small blocks had driver side lower radiator hose from ‘60(something) to ’69. 1970 to Magnum small blocks all had passenger side lower radiator hose. The Magnum water pumps are different and not paid any attention to those, yet.

    All /6 radiators (’60-86) have lower neck on passenger side of car (that I know if).

    The upper necks differ through the years and (I think) mostly matter if car was made with A/C or not.

    Most of all Chrysler products (cars and trucks) had a wide and narrow radiator. Narrow was for no A/C cars (note: you can get a wide radiator on no A/C cars if had towing package or max-cooling package) and wide, for everything else.

    When talking about wide radiators, a few C-body and ’70’s pickups had a 28” wide core (with max-cooling and/or towing option). Most everything else (including the other C-bodies or pickups) had a 26” wide radiator.
    For FMJ’s, the narrow radiator was either 18”, 19”, 20” or 22” (depending on the year). If you can find a good 28” wide core, grab it (see notes, below).
    The radiator on my no A/C ’77 wagon 318 is 18” wide.
    20170829_130237 r.jpg

    In my garage (none for sale) I have four radiators (and an extra set if 26” FMJ tank straps):
    ’69 C-body 440 A/T A/C 26”x18” 3-core Right upper/Left Lower neck (A)
    ’74 pickup 440 A/T A/C 26”x20” 4-core Right upper/Right lower neck (B)
    M-body (4140652) 26”x18” 1-core Left upper/Right lower neck, 2x (C)

    The one marked (A) would be idea for @Aspen500 so he could use a normal upper radiator hose (wait, was I not to say that out-loud . . . sorry).

    The one marked (B) I plan on using on one of my big blocks. I’m going to remove the metal side tank straps and solder on a set of my FMJ straps. It should work like it was made there.
    Not sure what I’m using for the second big block, yet (hadn’t gotten that far along, yet).


    Aluminum radiators will transfer heat more efficiently than brass ones will, which is a big plus for the aftermarket radiators. I just don’t like the look of aluminum radiators. A painted black corrugated radiator is what I want.
    I refer to corrugated as this look:
    26 Radiator.jpg

    It is sad (to me) that most of all the new FMJ radiators available today use plastic tanks. Thanks, but I’ll pass.


    Note: if you are going big block, don’t use the narrow radiator.

    Note: most body types (A, B, C, F etc.) use different tank straps – which also changes depending on year made.
    A simple solder job by a radiator shop can change them out in about 15 minutes. Don’t worry about the old tank straps – as long as you have a set from an FMJ 26” radiator. All 26” FMJ (and ’82 to ’93 pickup) side straps are the same).

    Note: if you are lucky enough to find a good 28” radiator, FMJ side straps will work as well – but you will need to drill new mounting holes 1” (25 mm) inboard on both straps. It will be a tight fit but will work.

    Note: All Chrysler transmission cooler lines screwed onto the tank from ‘60 to 1979. The ’80 and up transmission coolers used a short piece of rubber hose (high pressure 5/16” fuel hose works well).
    Many (but not all) radiators have a screw-on fitting (on the tank) that allows a person to change from a hose to screw-on line fitting. If the radiator has a "fixed" hose fitting, a person can get short pieces of hose and clamp it onto your existing screw-on lines, but it might take a bit to get the hose past the flare.

    Note: the metal transmission cooler lines (with hoses - '80-89) are less apt to crack (from vibration) – but the hoses will start to leak over time.
    The all-metal transmission cooler lines ('76-79) are mostly trouble free - but might crack over time (from vibration) leaving a massive fluid leak. This is rare but does happen.

    Non-lockup transmission ('76 to mid-year '78) cooler lines run around 30 PSI.
    Lockup transmissions (mid-year ’78 to ’89) cooler lines run at 90-100 PSI.

    BudW
     
  12. BudW

    BudW Moderator Staff Member

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    If you are using a big block passenger side water pump housing (’72-79), use the timing cover that is made for it (or a bolt on aftermarket pointer).

    You are correct about the radiators fitting both small blocks (to a point).
    The ’60-69 Small block and ’60-71 big block radiators both had driver side lower necks. Now the upper necks depended on if car had A/C or not.
    The ’70-91 small blocks and ’72-79 big blocks both had passenger side lower necks. Again, the upper necks depended on if car had A/C or not.

    A radiator shop can move the position of necks on an existing brass radiator tank - but in most cases, it looks tacky afterwards.

    Most upper and lower tanks can be swapped out with another radiator – which can fix a lot of issues, but you need another radiator (with correct neck position) for that to work.
    BudW
     
  13. Ele115

    Ele115 Well-Known Member

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    Looking like 383 Barracuda radiator may not work. I may see if the guy that made the one for my Gaz can do it. I want a brass one really bad.
     
  14. BudW

    BudW Moderator Staff Member

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    What year barracuda?
    BudW
     
  15. Ele115

    Ele115 Well-Known Member

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    My 70 Radiator looks like close but not close enough. 70 Mustang 429 radiator looks closer. Looks pretty good to me as long as it doesn't hang down below the bottom. It's brass. I'll have to play with the trans cooler lines again to put this one in tomorrow. They go in at a different spot
     
  16. BudW

    BudW Moderator Staff Member

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    I’ve seen Ford radiators in Mopars and vice-versa. Most GM products go the other direction, though.

    If the same width and if you have some FMJ brackets, then I don’t see any reason it wouldn’t fit/work.
    BudW
     
  17. XfbodyX

    XfbodyX Well-Known Member

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    If your front frame rails are like an F, even the biggest mopar rad will fit and look nice. I cant find the pic I posted on here but ive one F with a 73 440 RR wwith AC max air cooling rad in it and you would have to look close to tell its not oem. It does go from frame rail to frame rail but yet with the oem shroud looks oem from front and back even with a smaller core support opening, coolant volume helps too.

    They do make some nice al rads with the tops that mimic the old brass tops and can be painted.

    If you have not found one yet, these are on ebay and they make a wide selection with the "old" look to them, I use a couple and its hard to beat the cooling of an al. unit.

    2700.jpg
     
  18. volare 77

    volare 77 Well-Known Member

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    The main reason I never bought the aluminum rad is because they all look so ugly in a mostly stock engine compartment. I`m glad they are selling those that look more like OEM.
     
  19. BudW

    BudW Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree 100%.
    Aluminum does a better job with heat transfer (than brass) but, to me, the "aluminum" look is just off in another ball field.

    Unrelated, have you thought about a passenger side water pump housing?
    440 Source makes an aluminum version Water pump housing Aluminum - Passenger Side Lower Hose-440 Source and it will open up the number of possible radiators. It will already be tight enough with the driver’s side outlet with the oil filter right there.
    2001079 440Source.jpg
    I will say their older passenger side water pump housings did have problems, but it appears all is good, now. Personally, I’ve already purchased as much aluminum engine parts to keep the weight down (water pump and housing (passenger side outlet), intake and cylinder heads).

    This is their drivers side outlet version (but a few people are also making them): Water pump housing Aluminum - Drivers Side Lower Hose-440 Source .
    2001038 440Source.jpg

    Note: I'm not trying to push their products … but I did purchase their water pump housings and cylinder heads. My intakes are Edelbrock 2186's.

    @XfbodyX can you provide a link for the above radiator, please?
    BudW
     
  20. Oldiron440

    Oldiron440 Well-Known Member

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    I believe Speedway has a passenger side water pump housing also.