5 on 5 wheel experiment

kkritsilas

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I couldn't tell, as it was only a picture, but people are actually doing this. See:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtPsrgL4L_g

While this is labelled dangerous, it would be better labelled "how to polish your wheels, lose fingers or a hand, and ruin your life". All it takes is for one of those buffind pads he is using to catch on the bolt heads of the wheel, and his new name will be Two Fingers Louie, or 'Ole One Arm.

This video has two clowns working on the wheel at the same time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvRWV28BhLs

Best that can be hoped for here is that something happens to knock these two guys heads together and put some sort of common sense into them (without ripping off any body parts).

Polishing out the wheels will be an effort, and while I am all for minimizing unneeded effort, these videos show exactly what NOT to do.
 

kkritsilas

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Update to the 5 on 5 wheel experiment:

I took a chance and sanded out the thin spokes with 400 grit. They came out great, without too much effort. One of the thin spokes had a curved scratch/shallow groove beneath the paint. Had to use some 320 and some effort to sand that out. Then sanded the wheel with 600 grit. Looks like this now:

IMG_0369.jpg


Some notes:

1. The crushed glass blasting has removed the machining marks. I saw then them I first started hand sanding the thin spokes, but did not see them in the areas that I had crushed glass blasted.
2. There are some paint globs from the factory wheel painting process. The blasting process could not remove the globs. I had to scrape the globs off with a knife. on this one wheel, I only had one, but I think that there could be some, or none, on the other wheels I have
3. underneath the paint, there are areas that have surface defects, in the form of pinholes. The pinholes were filled in by the wheel paint, and only became visible when I started sanding with the 600 grit sandpaper.
4. The shapes in the wheels are a lot more ocmplex than they appear. I orginally started with a sanding block, but quickly found that the rigidity of the sanding block did not allow me to get to the entire surface. I went back to handheld paper, and got better results.
5. Getting the aluminum dust takes effort, usually needing multiple wash cycles with water containing dish soap. I like to clean the wheels after every pass, in order to be able to clearly judge progress, and 2-3 wash cycles between grits.

Going forward, I will be continuing the sanding process, eventually getting to the 3000 or 4000 grit point before I stop the sanding process. I would love to try to use polishing compounds, but don't know how (I have never done even this before), and I am a lot more comfortable with just sanding. After the sanding is done, I will be painting the dark grey (undanded) areas with either matte, or semi-matte black.

IMG_0369.jpg
 

kkritsilas

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Snine is not where I want it, but I did see a major improvement going to 600 grit from 400. I still have a couple of defects that I want to clean up before I move on to 1000 grit.

I just had a thought that if somebody was interested in a more "sating" or "low gloss" finish on the wheels, they could stay at 400 or 600 grit. To each their own.

Forogt to knote that the sandpaper tens to wear out pretty quick. I will be trying out Micro-Mesh from 1000 grit and up.

Also, sorry for the delay, I spent a month in Montreal visiting with my mom, so couldn't work on this much.
 

jasperjacko

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Aint it fun? You're right about the contours, there is that little "bead" at the outer edge of the rim that you will sand off if you use a block.
 

kkritsilas

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Yeah, there's all sorts of interesting contours that are not obvious when you look at the wheel with the factory paint on or from a distance. The factory (the wheel manufacturer, probably not Ma Chrysler) probably didn't care much about getting the bare metal perfect, just ballpark correct, and hit it with the very thick wheel paint; they knew that it would cover a lot of defects. The curved scratch/groove on one of the thin spokes that I mentioned above is another example. Didn't even see it when the wheel still had its paint; looks really bad with the paint removed, though.

On the hand, this is a really, really good looking wheel when it has a polished finish. They are nice looking wheels when painted, they will look pretty spectacular when polished out and with the black paint. Better than many after market wheels, in my opinion.
 

kkritsilas

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Thought I would complete the documentation of the experiment,as I have now figured this out (I believe).

From the previous pictures, I took it to 1000 grit wet/dry sandpaper. I then received my sanding pads from Micro-Surface, and continued going progressively finer. I went from Micro-Mesh 3600 to 12000 (don't get excited, 3600 is the equivalent of 1350 grit, and 12000 is somewhere around 3000 grit). I didn't take any pictures, because the differences would not have been visible in digital pictures.

I will go through the last part of my process, completed this afternoon after work:

Wheel looked like this, sanded out to Micromesh 12000, sprayed with Flitz Aluminum Pre Clean:

IMG_0429.jpg


After polishing out with Flitz Metal Polish and their Large Buff Ball (Power Ball equivalent, but made of strips of Microfiber felt vs. foam):

IMG_0437.jpg


That is a little bit harder to see because the background is different, so using the same background as the previous pictures:

IMG_0441.jpg


Some close ups:

IMG_0438.jpg
IMG_0439.jpg
IMG_0440.jpg
IMG_0442.jpg


(edited to add the final picture to show the level of clarity/gloss; reflection of my hand)

To document this from end to end:

1. Abrasive blast with 60/30 crushed glass. This also removed the machining marks.
2. Sand with Wet/Dry sandpaper starting at 400 grit to 1000 grit.
3. Using Micromesh, continue to sand from #3600 to #12000.*
4. Spray on Flitz Aluminum Pre-Clean and wash off with water. Dry off any water.
5. Using the Flitz Metal Polish, go over all surfaces that are bare metal. Final wipe off of any polish residues.

*I am not sure the Micro-Mesh pads are the best way to go. It may be better to go with the Micro-Mesh sheets. Probably better value for the money.

I am also not sure if the Micro-Mesh step is even necessary. I may try going straight from the 1000 grit sandpaper to the Flitz polish.

I don't know if the Flitz polish stuff is the best stuff out there or not. I'm not saying that it is, its just the stuff that I had. I'm sure that a lot of other products on the market would do a good job, possibly even better than the the Flitz stuff. I'm just happy with the results that I got.

IMG_0429.jpg


IMG_0437.jpg


IMG_0441.jpg


IMG_0438.jpg


IMG_0439.jpg


IMG_0440.jpg


IMG_0442.jpg
 
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kkritsilas

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It took me about 7.5 hours in all. Figure a set of wheels, 30 hours or so. But a shop would probably use power tools rather than hand sanding, like I did. They might be able to get them done in 2-3 hours. Probably under 2 hours if they have people with experience doing it, a better blast gun setup (no need to stop and refill, or higher volume guns, along with the compressors to back them up, for example). For 4 wheels, say total of 6-8 hours, multiplied by the shop rate, whatever it may be.
 
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volareandgtcat

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Looks super, but a labour of love.
Worth it though.
Due to labour, I wonder what a shop would charge?

I am about to begin this journey and want to thank for posting and Doc for pointing me here, so as to see what I'm in for ... lol .. I was better off ignorant of what's in store.
Clean and polish I was quoted $100-$175/wheel and things go up from there depending on condition and what you want done. I also have those rims and they haven't seen them so the quote was sight unseen. Another ad was $400 for a clean and polish for the set.
Those rims look awesome and your hard work really shows, my only saving grace is I'm not that particular ..lol.
 

kkritsilas

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volareandgtcat:

Glad to you found the ideas useful. I will be shortcutting the process somewhat, only doing the abrasive blasting, then hand sanding from 320 grit to 1000 grit, then going to polish. None of the materials are critical as far as I am aware. Only keep in mind that the abrasive blasting should be done with 60/30 crushed glass, or even better 70/40. It does not have to start with abrasive blasting, you could do it by hand sanding, but the clear coat/wheel paint is extremely tough (with a peronal belief that the machining marks/grooves help the paint gain a very solid tooth onto the surface). so if you do sand, there will be significantly more time required.

Like I have said in the other wheel polishing posting, the amount of hand labour involved would never be recovered if you were to try to sell these wheels. If I were to sell the wheels, I would want a minimum of $1200, and I won't get that anywhere. I polished the wheels out in order to get a good looking factory pattern wheel. When I get home from work, I usually watch a pair of Big Bang Theory reruns. It is then, with the show going on, that I sand the wheels. If I were not sanding the wheels out, I would just be watching the show.

BTW, the wheels are polished out, but they are far from completed. I will be painting the painted parts of wheel black. I haven't decided if they will be gloss, satin, or matte black yet, but leaning towards satin.
 

NoCar340

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Those look fantastic, Kostas! I did something similar on my '80 Aspen with an aftermarket wheel; after doing one I thought "this is insane" and never did the other three. Just drove around with one polished wheel. Hey, I was 21 and that beer wasn't gonna drink itself...

There's an industrial polishing shop about 70 miles from here that allows their employees to do this stuff as side jobs during their lunch breaks. Generally speaking, those guys will charge you $100-$150 to do a set of wheels, and the finish is nothing short of perfect. Of course, those guys do this every day and have all the right equipment and supplies. I know several guys that have had them done there over the past 30 years.
Even though I have that option available, I plan on doing the Conquest SHP wheels for my Imperial here at home. I'll be using a different method, though, which will hopefully be a little less labor-intensive. Just another one of the 9,000 winter projects I have lined up in front of me that may or may not get done... :oops:
 

kkritsilas

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i am doing it all by hand, because I don't have a lot of experience with power tools on something this delicate. The 5 on 5s are actually not too bad, the Imperial snowflakes are a lot more time consuming, as I wanted to retain the factory grey paint intact. I can use the crushed glass abrasive blasting on the 5 on 5s, but can only do the snowflakes by hand. The "edges" of the snowflakes are very narrow and quite intricate, so between that and my lack of experience with power sanding/grinding tools, I end up sanding off the clear coat and the machining marks by hand. The clear coat. like the clear coat/colour coat on the 5 on 5s is really tough. The crushed glass blasting just gets rid of that on the 5 on 5s quickly.

The wheels that I have workd on so far are forged; I have been told that forged wheels polish up a lit nicer than cast wheels do.
 

NoCar340

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The wheels that I have workd on so far are forged; I have been told that forged wheels polish up a lit nicer than cast wheels do.
That stands to reason, being that the forging process results in a much-denser grain structure and consequentily a stronger, but heavier, final product. Either way, polished aluminum has a sheen all its own that I much prefer to chrome plating, and I love the look you've achieved thus far.
 

kkritsilas

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That stands to reason, being that the forging process results in a much-denser grain structure and consequentily a stronger, but heavier, final product. Either way, polished aluminum has a sheen all its own that I much prefer to chrome plating, and I love the look you've achieved thus far.

The snowflake wheel polishing post is here:

http://www.forfmjbodiesonly.com/classicmopar/threads/more-adventures-in-polishing-out-wheels.4271/

Pretty much the same level of shine. The snowflakes may even look better than the 5 on 5s, at least until I get the 5 on 5s painted. The snowflake is a remarkably good looking wheel for less sporty/more conservative cars (it is intended for my 1980 Cordoba). I like the sporty look of the 5 on 5s for the Miradas.
 

kkritsilas

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The middle 5 on 5 picture is pretty much what I am trying to get to, aside from the red painted thin spokes; I will just leave mine polished out, and the areas around the lug nuts will also be painted black.

The first picture is a first generation Cordoba/Dodge Magnum wheel. I don't know if I like them; polished out, they would probably be real eye catching due to the sheer amount of polished surface area, but they do not have much detail, and they look sort of "heavy".

The R body 20 spoke wheel I have honestly never seen. either in pictures or in real life.
 
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