And the restoration begins,

[R/T Mirada]

Begining to sound more and more like a timing chain issue to me. I did find nylon timing gear teeth in the sump pickup, But the timing cover was clean when I bought it ( the only clean part on the whole engine) and I was hoping the PO had changed it reciently.
If it is the chain that will mean that the only 2 mopar I had ever owned both 318 had done this.
Still got to get oil pressure first

 

[NoCar340]

Pull the distributor cap... is the rotor turning? Even with a sloppy chain, it should start. The chain is pulled tight on one side during cranking. As long as you have ballpark timing, it should fire and run the pump. This was a running engine, so there's no reason to think it shouldn't still run.

But, do this: pull the #1 spark plug, then roll the engine over with the starter using a "bump switch" while holding your thumb over the spark-plug hole. When you start to feel pressure on your thumb from the cylinder (I don't care how tired it is, you'll feel it unless you're missing a piston ), quit cranking before the timing mark aligns with the tab. Manually turn the crank with a large ratchet, clockwise only (to maintain tension on the chain), to align the timing mark with 0° on the tab. Reinstall the spark plug, then check your rotor position in the distributor. Rearrange wires if necessary, obviously maintaining the firing order, so that the rotor is pointing exactly at the #1 spark plug wire's terminal. Yes, you'll have to twist the distributor a little bit, and don't forget to tighten it when you've got it aligned. It WILL fire the #1 spark plug at the correct time during cranking. Once it's running, set your timing as close as you can to factory spec with a timing light, or use the Big Fat Friend method for a little better performance. With a sloppy chain, though, it's still going to run a little funky.

For the record, I understand budgetary constraints and all that, but RockAuto sells a Cloyes C3028 dual-row roller timing set for this thing for $27.79 + shipping. The less-durable silent type is only $16.25, and a timing-cover gasket set is around $11 (Victor JV806). Either timing set is a drop-in; there's nothing special about the roller unit that requires different parts. To me, that's cheap peace of mind as well as accurate timing.

 

[NoCar340]

If it doesn't start after the above process, and you've got nice, white/blue spark at the plug, you have a fuel issue. If the spark is yellow or orange, make sure your battery is fully charged and all your ignition connections are clean and corrosion-free.

 

[My imp]

Did it try to fire? Backfire? From the picture, it looks like you pulled the distributor, & possibly install it 180 degrees out? Even if you lined it up @ TDC, it may not have been on the compression stroke.

 

[NoCar340]

If it does fire 180° out, be prepared for some fireworks... hence the reason I said to feel for compression when setting the distributor v. TDC.

 

[R/T Mirada]

I know about the 180 degree mistake, and I am on the compression stroke at top dead center.The air coming out of #1 Plug hole seemed a bit off while searching for TDC
I noticed that the distributor was pointing at the master cylinder, I am fairly sure it was pointing at #1 cylinder before I pulled the engine out. The engine was bounced around qiute a bit in the back of the truck and I did have it upside down while I was pulling the rod and mains checking for excesssive wear on the bearings, turning the crank back and forth to access the rod bearings.
There is no backfiring, popping or any signs of life while spinning it.

I am leaning toward a worn out timing chain jumping a tooth

But I have been wrong before, I will get it running again, as for how many times I will be wrong I guess I will find out

 

[My imp]

The air will start as soon as the piston starts it travel upwards. Check for loose chain by removing dist. cap & moving engine clockwise a few degrees to remove slack in chain. Turn engine counterclockwise while observing rotor. There should only be a few degrees before the rotor starts to turn. To check for a jumped tooth, you need to pull the drivers valve cover. You need to turn engine clockwise while observing when the rocker arms move. The FSM will tell you when which specific valve will open & close in relation to crank position.

 

[NoCar340]

If the chain had jumped a tooth in either direction, once again, it would still run. Poorly, but it would run. Worst-case scenario, if it jumped a tooth at the cam gear, you'd be off about 15.7° on your cam/ignition timing. If it jumped at the camshaft, it's only half that--about 7.8° degrees. Not even close to being enough to keep it from starting & running.

Jumping teeth, even on a truly-sloppy silent chain, is not an easy feat to accomplish, either. I had a 400 Pontiac with about an inch of play in either direction on the lee side of the chain. It was also missing 4 teeth on the crank gear and 7 on the cam gear. Freakin' nylon gears. The spark timing and cam events were all over the place. Snap, Crackle, Pop and their less-famous brother Fart were doing their things out both the carb and the tailpipes--but damned if the thing would quit.

Follow the procedure I listed above. If it doesn't fire at that point, you've got some other problem, most likely related to fuel.

 

[R/T Mirada]

Well, I went back to the basics on the Mirada, primed the (new) oil pump and got pressure, off to a good start. Checked the fuel pump Its pumping, I'm on a roll. Checked Spark after hooking up the distributor connector I've got spark! (AIR FUEL & Fire) cranked the starter and nothing.
Okay time for the timing cover to come off

Check out the slack in that chain

It wasn't off one or two teeth it was off ELEVEN Teeth I must have the world record for timing chain jumps

I purchased a new stock timing chain set and installed it praying the pistons didn't eat the valves and tried cranking it over. It immediately began to sound like normal until it started to fire, or rather backfire out the exhaust and intake. Too disgusted to do anything else I packed up and went home. I will go back Friday and do a compression test and maybe another leak down test. But I am almost certain the valves are bent.

two steps forward, twenty-five back

Now that I have dwelling on my problems, I know I had the distributor lined up for #1 TDC on the compression stroke before I changed the timing chain and gears, now that the cam timing is where it's suppose to be. I didn't pull the cap and check where the rotor was pointing. So there is a little hope that the ignition timing may be the problem. I'll find out friday, fingers crossed.

 

[NoCar340]

That actually doesn't look all that bad, slack-wise. I've taken apart worse that ran... I'm surprised it jumped.

If it's popping through the carb and exhaust, there's no doubt your timing's off by a mile. Don't even attempt to start it again until you thumb-test for compression to set up #1 TDC firing. Normally if you're 180° out you'll only get a poop-your-pants, really-loud backfire, but a friend's '63 Polara 383 blew the backs off both brand-new mufflers and ate his eyebrows, moustache, and enough scalp to nearly cause a Hair Club for Men membership. I'm thinking you'll probably have to realign your intermediate shaft; just use a big screwdriver to back it off the cam gear enough that you can twist it to get the distributor slot oriented correctly (remember, it's going to turn about 1/4 turn re-engaging the cam gear). Obviously, you could just reconfigure your wiring at the cap, but doing it the right way eliminates potential for crossfire or having a wire or two come up a bit short.

You're almost there, man... keep pluggin' away!

 

[R/T Mirada]

That's pretty much what I plan to do when the hobby shop opens up on Tuesday. Just praying no valves were injured in the making of this production.

 

[NoCar340]

I don't think you were far enough off on the cam timing, to be honest. You'll know when you thumb-test it... if the motor turns over twice with no pressure against your thumb, well, can I interest you in a set of complete 360 heads?

 

[R/T Mirada]

Well, the Dodge is up and running fairly well, for a very tired engine. Got a bit of a lope at idle because of low compression in #2 cylinder , looks like an exhaust valve that is going away. I just pretend its got a radical cam. It's still getting about 15mpg.
The next item on my list was the brakes because of the pulsing from warped rotors. Took the rotors in to have them turned only to find they were worn beyond limits, that explains the warping.
If I have to buy new rotors I might as well upgrade so now I have 11.75 rotors. I went to D.V.A.P. Desert Valley Auto parts to find the required brackets for the 11.75 swap but could not find the brackets that would allow me to reuse the existing calipers so I ended up getting the pin type brackets off of a 1977 400cid Cordoba and ended up replacing the calipers also.

The dash is still out of the car since I am still taking my time sorting out heater core, evaporator and vacuum line issues, to make the car more drivable I have created a skeleton framework to hold the instrument cluster and controls in place and have a dash facade to reduce the "Crappyness Factor" It also helps to keep the wiring away from the pedals.

I figure this way I can get everything hooked up and working and then when I do install the dash board I will remember where everything goes. Well that's the plan anyways
I just re-installed the radio yesterday, I never really used it before and the settings were still set from the previous owner I had to down load directions to reset the controls from super boom box to more reasonable "grown up" levels. Next weekend I will continue to work on the top door edge molding

Early prototype

I bought some plywood thinking that that would be more warp resistant but it wasn't, and it splintered more easily so back to pine. As lame as the prototype may look it feels good to rest my arm on it.

Is it just me or is the door lock knob in an awkward location

Oh Well at-least I am out driving my Mirada. I am liking that 18 gallon tank until I have to refill it

 

[jasperjacko]

I'm surprised those calipers don't rub the wheels. Keep plugin'

 

[R/T Mirada]

Oh yea, they're close. I used the link provided by Roadrunninmark under the post "Best Break" Set up
from a Mopar Action disc brake swap article.


http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/archive/disc-main.html

the tired engine can't come close to needing the braking power of the stock system yet alone the upgraded brakes, but maybe, someday ?

I also had all four tires balanced just for good measure.

 

[Mr.Lopar]

the pics of your dash remind me of roadkill

 

[NoCar340]

The pin-type calipers were a score. They're a lot less likely to stick than the sliders, so not finding what you wanted resulted in you getting better parts. Chalk up a victory to "bad luck". :icon_biggrin:

 

[R/T Mirada]

Thanks, I noticed when I pulled of the old calipers that only 1 of the 4 pads had any real wear on it, I guess that was where it must have been sticking. Having brakes that stop smoothly is a nice change and lays the ground work for future upgrades.

 

[My imp]

Slider type are close also. I talked about the clearance between the bolts & the wheel if stick on balance weights were used. If not careful of placement, it wouldn't make 1 revolution! There's a company re-popping the slider type bracket. Kinda pricey at $95.00, but they don't come with 30+ years of wear. Donnie White had a few sets, but no pin type when I bought mine last year. But things. Hange.

 

[kkritsilas]

Dr. Diff has the large rotor brackets for slider type calipers. $90/pair on their web site, $95/pair for the same from eBay.

Kostas