BB in an F or M body.

Engine Swaps

  1. Remow2112

    Remow2112 Active Member

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    I am working on a write up of dropping a b deck big block in F or M bodies. I just dropped a 400 in my 77 Volare. I did it using factory spool BB motor mounts.

    When I build my BB stroker I think I will buy the conversion mounts. But for those that want to save every penny. This is the way to do it. I hope to get it done this weekend.

    Dan...
     
    David Clark likes this.
  2. MiradaMegacab

    MiradaMegacab Well-Known Member

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    Thats great. Good luck on your build. Keep us posted!!
     
  3. bremereric

    bremereric FMJ Body Moderator

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    A RB 440 is wider and taller...use Schumacher's motor mounts and look here this guy has already done it....

    10121095_2011213192439.jpg

    10121095_2011213192713.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2011
  4. MiradaMegacab

    MiradaMegacab Well-Known Member

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    ReMow...How's your project going?
     
  5. ramenth

    ramenth Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to know, too.
     
  6. Shorty Thompson

    Shorty Thompson Well-Known Member

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    You doing a raised block , or a lo-block ?
     
  7. MiradaMegacab

    MiradaMegacab Well-Known Member

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    Years ago, somewhere around 1992 Mopar Action Magazine had an article on a wagon with a big block installed using the factory spool mounts. I think the owners name was Bill Klop. I sort of remember an article called, "Trash That Lean Burn" in the same issue.
     
  8. bremereric

    bremereric FMJ Body Moderator

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    Yes there is a DC k-frame modification that shows you how to move back one of the k-frame engine mounts to use the factory spool mounts..I will see if I can find it...
     
  9. bremereric

    bremereric FMJ Body Moderator

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    This is for an A body k-frame but I think you can make it work on our k-frames

    [SIZE=+3]Make Your Own DC-K Frame[/SIZE]
    Jim Lusk originally wrote an article in the 80's describing the modifications needed to copy the old Direct Connection K-member. He was kind enough to send along the pics and info for all of us to use. Hope you all find it useful in building your own street beater. Oh...please be patient, as there are ALOT of pics here.
    dck01.jpg

    dck02.jpg dck03.jpg
    These first photos show the unmolested 73-up A-body K-frame before any cutting.
    dck06.jpg dck23.jpg

    Above is the passenger side bracket after being moved back 13/16"

    Below, is the driver side bracket moved back 1 3/16"
    Arrows point to material that must be removed from the steering bracket for clearance.
    dck07.jpg dck08.jpg
    With the mount in place, you can see why the steering box bracket needs to be trimmed.
    dck11.jpg
    dck12.jpg dck15.jpg
    Passenger side fits nicely now.
    The actual motor mounts that fit this application are most common in the 74-78 C-bodies.
    The required mounts and part numbers are shown below. dck74_78%20C-body%2001.jpg dck74_78%20c-body%2002.jpg dckDriver%20side.jpg dckPassenger%20side.jpg
    dck05.jpg
    dck09.jpg
    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]And finally, heres the whole thing together.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]So there ya have it. One big block ready to rip :)[/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]I hope these pics take some of the fear and mystery out of this project. Its a cheap and fairly easy solution, bound to expand the Big Block A-body family :) [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]If you have any questions, Jim is a frequent visitor to the message board. I'm sure he'd be happy to help someone get their ride rolling.[/SIZE][/FONT]​
    [​IMG]
     
  10. 1976RR

    1976RR Well-Known Member

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    "use Schumacher's motor mounts and look here this guy has already done it.... "
    Eric if you use the Schumacher mounts ..... is there any welding involved ? Also to all members also, we are talking a bigblock 440 engine can be installed with these mounts ..... Also does TTI make a header for a 440 in F body .... Also is there an 8 quart oil pan that can be used on the 440 with NO mods to K frame ... One last question ... does the brake booster interefere with the valve cover and is there a smaller diameter booster that will work ?
    Thanks
     
  11. crayzcuda

    crayzcuda Well-Known Member

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    440 2x4.jpg
    440 stock mounts,stock mount location, 2" tube Hedman headers,mounts moved forward on block only ,3/4 and 1".Its easy and cheap.

    440 2x4.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2011
  12. Shorty Thompson

    Shorty Thompson Well-Known Member

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    Yeah ,,,, there is an oil pan , and I think I got 1 on the back porch too . Used but in good shape . PM me if your interested . Btw , it's a moroso pan .
     
  13. bremereric

    bremereric FMJ Body Moderator

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    No welding with Shumacher mounts...cheap 440 source 8 qt pan...and yes if you have the big brake booster and you may try a smaller diameter brake booster from prior years...notice crazycuda's manual brakes...have not seen the details but notching of k-member may be needed for the oil pump...probably if you are running the high volume pump
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2011
  14. crayzcuda

    crayzcuda Well-Known Member

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    Tranny mounts line up in the stock location without any modifications. Drive shaft is from an A body with 727 trans and 8 1/4 / 8 3/4 rear. Early A body power brake booster should clear valve cover.

    oil pan.jpg

    pass side.jpg

    oil pump.jpg

    d side.jpg

    oil and mount.jpg
     
  15. 1976RR

    1976RR Well-Known Member

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    Just tossing it around on BB .......... cheaper to get 600 hp out of BB then a SB .......thanks for photos Crazycuda..... i am assuming your F body is same color as mine ..... is that the stock color ?
     
  16. Shorty Thompson

    Shorty Thompson Well-Known Member

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    You must be kidding , right ?
     
  17. red80roadrunner

    red80roadrunner Active Member

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    crayzcuda: what did you use to move the mounts on the block? a steel spacer or? really looking for info, im dropping a 440 into a mirada in next few weeks and would like to know how to move them along from normal cast iron block to mount ears.do you have any more pics of tis area or a template you used, I like the its easy and cheap quote thats the way im looking to do it also, did you run a left side torque chain or brace?I see where you trimmed the left mount along the rubber and steel to clear the large pressure relief head at rear of oil pump what else had to be trimmed or removed? I see the normal bolting of mounts is on rear of the cast tabs on the block so im thinking a couple of washers and mount then to the front side and being the tabs are 1/2 to 3/4 inch thick it would be almost the proper amount on pass side and a couple grade 8 washers and good bolts and drivers side would be the 1 inch you mentioned moving it foreward? am I close or wayy out to lunch?
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2011
  18. crayzcuda

    crayzcuda Well-Known Member

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    red80roadrunner: I did my swap because I was told it couldn't be done and it turned out easier than I thought. My swap was done quite some time ago when the Schumacher mounts were not so readily available and I didn't want to pay big dollars for headers either.

    How I got the mounts aligned was to put a straight edge across the back of the small block where the tranny mounts to the block and measured to the front side of the motor mount where it slides in to cross member. This dimension you will need on both sides.

    It will be 3/4 of an inch different on the passenger side and 1" difference on driver's side from the big block measurement from the back of the block. Now if you measure the motor mount ear at the top front, you will see it is almost an inch. To mount the motor mount on the front of the mounting ears, you will have to grind some cast flash off. You should be able to mount the top bolt in this area to get your measurements. If I remember correctly, I had to grind about 1/8 th on the passenger side to move it back and put a washer in on the drivers side to get the motor mounts to sit the same distance as the small block when bolting the big block motor mounts to the front side of the motor mount ears. Use washers or metal spacers to fill in the gaps on the rest.

    This will make more sense when the mounts are bolted on and you can see them in front of you. Driver side motor mount will need some grinding in the oil pump location and rear oil pump spring bolt will have to be ground down (see photos). Best to fit motor mount and pump before installing engine. You will have to cut cross member mount out side front down to clear pump (see photo). I used torque strap to hold motor down so it would not pull header into steering link. This will only be an issue with Hedman #75060 headers on an RB engine. Some people have had luck with 78030 Hedman headers but I have never tried these. I used the #75060 header because they come in 11 pieces and were very easy to fit. They did fit tight on the firewall and inner fender on passenger side of an F body though. Hope this helps, if you need more info let me know.
    I would not do the swap with the Rubber crossmember bushings in, must upgrade to the cast or polyurethane bushings.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2011
  19. crayzcuda

    crayzcuda Well-Known Member

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    It's always cheaper to go Big block. And yes. it came factory PB5 paint color with K7B stripe and an E57 motor which I still have, but it would just look too small in the engine compartment now.
     
  20. Remow2112

    Remow2112 Active Member

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    Sorry I am late to respond. Way too busy with other stuff. I finished getting the 400 in my Volare. It wasn't as bad as I thought and not as easy either. I have written up a little article on what you need and how to do it.

    I have posted on a couple of boards. I kind of left this thread alone because there seemed to be some resistance to using factory parts vs buying a Schumacher kit.

    So for the record :) I have a 76 400 bored .060 pistons sitting a mile down the hole. A set of mildly bowl worked 452 heads. a summit racing 6401 cam with a TM6 intake. The intake will be changed to a Holley SD in the near future and I picked up a set of Edelbrock heads with Crane gold roller rockers about a month ago. So those will go on when I get ambitious.

    The tranny is a rebuilt 727 using stock clutches and heavy duty bands. It has a Cheetah reverse manual valve body and a 3500 stall converter. 8 3/4 out back with clutch posi and 3.91 gears.

    Had it to the track twice first time I was running a new set of MT et streets and I could not keep the car straight once I broke about 90 mph. So that night was lost. Next time we went out my fan clutch died and the car started over heating and had a massive backfire with a little carb fire. That was fun!

    Planning on hitting the track this coming Friday. Trying some different tires and I am very excited!

    Dan...