Cranks . no start - Lean burn fifth avenue

[Justwondering]

I took the Chrysler out today after months of sitting ignored.
Took a couple of tries at home, but it started and rough idled a bit.

Its 1/4 mile to the main road.. died twice on the way, but started back up each time.

Drove 30 miles.
Stopped, did an errand. Got in, started back up.
Drove 3 miles, stopped, another errand. Got in, started back up.
Drove 3 miles back, stopped, another errand (car was parked on small incline going downhill at front of Oreillys).. took 4 tries, but it started.
Drove 20 miles, let it set about an hour. Crank and crank and crank... no start. Doesn't smell like any gas after I take the housing off the air filter. Is parked on a small incline going uphill at the carport.

Put it in neutral and let it roll back to the roadbed where it is reasonably flat.
Cranks but won't start. Still don't smell any gas.

Its 2 pm, hot (93), humid (46%), sun is blazing making the metal on the car hot.

I'm taking the groceries and putting them in the dakota so I can get it home and will come back the evening to mess with the car. Getting my manual and doing some reading til then.

Meanwhile ... Darth Car suggested fuel pump so I called Oreillys and they can have one by 6 pm. Means I have time to get the groceries home, dinner made, and drive back to town to pick up the part, back to the farm with my tools to install. Life is never dull.

I did get to drive 75 mph all the way to town earlier -- pretty snazzy.

 

[Justwondering]

Progress was made.
4 hour delay waiting for part to move from one town in the boonies to the closer town in the boonies.
Drove in to pick up the new fuel pump.

The manual has a total of 1/2 page and 1 pitiful drawing of the situation. Absolutely nothing other than 'once you remove the pump'... oh lovely.

I was trying to get things done so I could bring the car home so no pictures today... BUT there will be pictures tomorrow.

Basically there are 2 bolts and two hose lines that keep this puppy in place. The alternator is between you and the bolts.. ergo.. one must remove the alternator. Or in my case temporarily relocate it.

After the alternator is out of the way, you realize there is no easy way to do this with box wrenches. Since I'm at the farm and not at home, I have none of my tools. All I had were box wrenches and 1 socket wrench with no extension. And lots and lots of sweat. lol

One of the hose lines is rubber and held on with a screw clamp. The other hose is a hardline held one with a screw end.

ROOKIE MISTAKE: don't keep the rubber hose. Put a new piece in. I reused the old one because I guess I had a blond bimbo moment today at the parts store. And yes, after everything was back together.. it leaked.

I had to prime the carb with gas, but it started up. Of course, it then spewed gas out the cracked hose.

But there is hope.

Doctor visit in the morning so tomorrow afternoon I can take another shot at this beautiful bonding time with my fifth avenue and get those lovely shots to post.

Something so simple, mechanical fuel pump... two bolts... two clamps and yet absolutely no insight on how to finagle it out and the new one in. I guess they figured there was no reason to write it up in the manual cause we are all born with the detailed knowledge of mechanical fuel pumps....doh!

 

[Aspen500]

That's just service manuals in general. No different today. I run into that all the time at work. It'll say (for example) "remove trim panel". OK,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,how? Is it held with clips, hidden fasteners, what? Frustrating. My favorite is like "remove 4 bolts and remove alternator from vehicle". First of all, you can hardly SEE the alternator and how the f*** do you get at those 4 bolts to remove them? Grrrrrrrrrrrr.

 

[Justwondering]

Is it obvious I've never spent much time reading service manuals? lol

 

[BudW]

Removing the alternator makes the job so much easier – um, if you want to call it an easy job.

Two hoses/lines: Before disconnecting the hoses/lines, I recommend getting a pair of 5/16” bolts or two sticks about 5/16” in diameter.

Once one hose is disconnected, insert the bolt (or stick, or whatever) into the hose to keep fuel loss to a minimum. Once other hose is disconnected, do the same.
This will not prevent fuel loss, but at least keeps it to a minimum.

Remove both bolts – which I think are 9/16” heads (going by memory – which I could be wrong).

The fuel pump should change position a bit once second bolt has been removed, maybe.
If not, then take the socket wrench end and tap on old pump (up/down or side to side – direction doesn’t matter much) to break the gasket loose. Once gasket is loose, then old pump should pull straight out.

Be sure to clean gasket surface off good – for this can be a common oil leak location – if oil gasket is not completely removed – but avoid scratching or gouging the timing cover, doing so.

The next step, I recommend inserting a bolt into new pump and placing gasket on pump/bolt. Which bolt doesn’t matter, but I generally install the rear bolt, first.

After bolt is screwed in a couple of turns, then install the second bolt – but make sure gasket is on bolt correctly. Make sure both bolts are finger tight/loose before tightening them. I’ve seen my share of broken fuel pump ears from tightening one bolt when other bolt is way loose.

After bolt bolts are tight, reattach hoses.

Sense alternator is off, this would be a great time to replace the fuel filter – but I believe you did so, about this time last year.

It will take some cranking to get fuel lines refilled.

Taking my time, it takes me about an hour to an hour and a half for to complete, if not in a shop (ie: outside).
If parked at a downhill angle (fuel tank up), then it is possible to drain your fuel tank if you don't plug the fuel hose going to tank.
BudW

 

[Justwondering]

Thank you Bud...

 

[Justwondering]

Now it will run if I pour gas in the carb but quits when the gas is gone

I don't think I have any leaks

I did replace the hose Short one off the pump to the gas line.

Maybe it's air in the line now

 

[Justwondering]

Couldn't stand it anymore.
Had to come home and get my tools and more fuel line in case its that short line at the sending unit that AJ speaks of so fondly.

And a charger to get the battery back up since I've run it down too far with all this testing.

And today was my day to mow. Ah well... guess I do that tomorrow with its 15 degrees warmer. bleh

 

[Justwondering]

Oh Lord...
Got absolutely nothing done on the Chrysler.

As I'm driving down to the farm, there's gray smoke on the horizon.
Yes, in fact there is a 50 foot pecan tree on fire and burning.
And yes, in fact, its on my brother's property.

Apparently, it was hit by lightning last week in the storms and has been smoldering for a week about 20 foot up in the tree at two large limbs. This thing is over 20 inches in diameter at the base.

Today, one of the large limbs broke off and fell across the main road to the cemetery and gave plenty of air to the smoldering area which caused it to catch on fire.

Took about 10 minutes and three phone calls to three different fire departments and finally one of the volunteer fire departments showed up. Seems they've been called out every day for the past 5 days. Oh good grief..

So I got my chain saw out and started on the tree. Two guys showed up with a water truck to put the fire out and offered to cut the limbs. Said okay, and I started dragging limbs so I could clear out the road before the weekend and any funerals.

Hour and a half later it became obvious there wasn't enough time before I lost daylight, so I'll try again tomorrow.

I cannot believe the end of this day... just very remarkable.

 

[Justwondering]

Poured 4 ounces of gas in the carb and got it to move about 70 feet. Then it stopped. Bowl was dry.

Managed to squeeze under the left rear end and if I have to drop the tank to replace that small fuel hose then I will have to send it to the shop.

good news is I got it away from the propane tank. Being five foot from a 300 gallon propane tank and dealing with fuel issues is not for me.

 

[Justwondering]

Got the car hauler trailer in the truck and it's got a flat. Not shocked. Not amazed.

Plan is to put the car on the trailer and move it to my place and test things like in this post
New Manual Fuel Pump And No Gas
Then figure out my next step next week.

 

[Justwondering]

So the air compressor in the barn sounds like someone is inside it hammering with a sledge hammer.
Even if I could get to the oiler (too much clutter in the way), I turned it on for 4 minutes and no air would come out the line.
Turned it off and shazamm.... there is an obvious air leak at the compressor.

Sigh.

Meanwhile, I go out and shred the front field for two hours til it gets way too hot.

I'm thinking my hose lines are too large. I went with what the counter guy told me but it sure seems like 3/8 is too large.
I went to town and bought 5/16 and 1/2 inch line.

What should I be putting on this jalopy?

 

[Aspen500]

The fuel hose is 5/16".

You sure do lead an exciting life! Makes mine seem awfully darn boring.

 

[Justwondering]

okay here we go...
IT'S ALIVE!

Basically, there were 3 problems:
1. Wrong size fuel line (do not use 3/8). Use 5/16 and all is good. Under the hood of this car there are two different sizes of fuel lines. I looked at the one above the fuel pump and used that size. Wrong! too large.

2. My hand strength is for crap. Perhaps I shouldn't be using screw clamps. I replaced the clamps with same type, just new. Apparently I did not get the clamps tight enough. However, once I put my mine too it and used a different tool I could tell they were able to tighten more. Stopped the back drip.
I did tighten the metal to metal line connection as well, just about 1/4 turn for insurance.

3. The battery charger at the farm is pit-eh-ful. I messed with it so much yesterday that I ran the battery down. After 3 hours (yes 3) and only slightly more than a 50% charge, I was able to start the car. Jeeze.. Better quality battery charger is in my future.

Fifth Avenue is going down to the mechanic tomorrow so he can review my work and let me know what I could do better or differently.

Thank goodness I'm nearly past this problem-o.

Aspen500 -- I owe you big time.

 

[BudW]

There are three different “fuel” hoses used (by tank, by engine and the hidden hoses by firewall).

Main fuel hose 5/16” (used in 4 different areas – the ones mentioned above and at fuel filter).
Return fuel hose 1/4”.
Fuel vapor hose 3/16”

BudW

 

[Justwondering]

I have two hoses that are 3/8ths which is why I bought the 3/8ths hose initially.
lol...
Never trust the prior owner's mechanic.

Thanks for the info Bud.

 

[BudW]

It takes a LOT of clamp tightening to squeeze a 3/8” hose down to a 5/16” tube without leakage.
Doable - but difficult.
BudW