Exhaust pipe removal

Bluejeansthe5th

Active Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2021
Messages
36
Reaction score
15
Location
Newport News, Va.
I am going to need to drop the exhaust crossover pipe on my 87 fifth. 94K and sure looks original to me. The cats sure seem to be in the way, especially on the right side. I have soaked the bolts and nuts with Blaster as well as I can. They are not easily accessible, at least to me. I hope someone has done this and can give me some tips. I have found this site to be great for education on my car. Thanks in advance.
 

Mikes5thAve

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Messages
1,375
Reaction score
539
Location
Canada
They are a pain to get to. I remember going thru one of removable covers on the inner fender to get to at least one of them.
 

BudW

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 4, 2012
Messages
5,121
Reaction score
1,485
Location
Oklahoma City
The Y-pipe without the front cats attached, is also "fun" to remove. The cats just make it more of a challenge.
Don't reuse the fasteners. That said, sense they won't be reused, feel free to remove while providing the least amount of damage elsewhere...

I might be wrong, but I remember removing the exhaust manifold on one side just to get more clearance for my Sawzall on the other side.
BudW
 

Camtron

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2019
Messages
1,814
Reaction score
1,376
Location
US
I used a die grinder/cutoff wheel to cut the flange bolts when I did my header swap. May be easier to crank down on the nuts and try to snap the bolts with a good ratchet, extension and socket/wobble socket.
Was a pretty shitty evening in the garage, wouldn’t want to do it again, lol.
 

Ele115

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2019
Messages
635
Reaction score
242
Location
Tampa FL
Deepwell 6 point socket and some extensions and a wobble. Break them off, it's easy.
 

Mikes5thAve

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Messages
1,375
Reaction score
539
Location
Canada
At least they're bolts and not studs like other makes. Mine were fine to reuse but it hasn't been apart in 20 years now. Actually last time was when someone else worked on it to replace the exhaust and I don't know if those bolts got reused again or replaced.
 

BudW

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 4, 2012
Messages
5,121
Reaction score
1,485
Location
Oklahoma City
The exhaust manifold to exhaust pipe (or Y-pipe) uses grade 5 bolts and they were not meant to be reused.
Not Grade 8 or ARP fasteners.
Not the gradeless Chinese crap either.

Too much heat and rust will get to those fasteners.
 

Bluejeansthe5th

Active Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2021
Messages
36
Reaction score
15
Location
Newport News, Va.
At least they're bolts and not studs like other makes. Mine were fine to reuse but it hasn't been apart in 20 years now. Actually last time was when someone else worked on it to replace the exhaust and I don't know if those bolts got reused again or replaced.
The FSM shows one as a stud, from the illustration, looks like it might be screwed in to the top of the bottom flange, then the top flange is connected by a nut.. I am hoping to not have to drill out a broken off stub in the flanges. I guess I will be at this Monday and look carefully at how the pipes are attached to the manifold. As I remember there is space to cut the bolts, if you can get cutting devices in there. That is if I can even get close to look... I appreciate all the responses.
 

Mikes5thAve

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Messages
1,375
Reaction score
539
Location
Canada
The ones I have were bolts.
They had surface rust from heat but were in good shape otherwise so they got reused.
Studs are always fun (not) when they break or strip and have to spend more time getting the manifold off because there's usually not enough room to get anything in there to remove the busted part.
 

BudW

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 4, 2012
Messages
5,121
Reaction score
1,485
Location
Oklahoma City
I have removed two Y-pipes in the last decade. One was an Y-pipe from a '80 Aspen wagon (with single rear cat). Those manifold to pipe fasteners were rusty and stripped without much effort.
I finally had to break out the Sawzall and still did some damage:
20210919_152941.jpg

No, this cat free Y-pipe is not for sale. It is going into my '86 Fifth Ave.
I also had a Dremel with a rotary cutting blade to use.

Deepwell 6 point socket and some extensions and a wobble. Break them off, it's easy.
He was talking about tightening them to break 'em off. I guess a couple of additional words would have helped. Some times this works, sometimes it doesn't.

The Y-pipe I removed before that was from an '84 Gran Fury police car. I removed the engine/transmission/K-frame/suspension as one assembly from the car. Even with the engine removed from car (and from K-frame, at this point), I still couldn't remove the rusty fasteners (they had also rounded off). I wanted to save the flanges, so I ended up cutting the Y-pipe off above the cats, then cut the fasteners off (also using a Sawzall).
20210919_153104.jpg

I used the flanges on a Y-pipe I had made up at a local muffler shop (and sense sold to @XfbodyX).

Good luck.
Hopefully you have better luck than I've had.
BudW
 

Bluejeansthe5th

Active Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2021
Messages
36
Reaction score
15
Location
Newport News, Va.
What year is your Fifth Ave?
1987 It does look like the stud is screwed into the bottom flange. At least if the shank breaks, removing, or drilling out the remainder in the flange might be easier than from a manifold. I shudder at the thought of removing an exhaust manifold from a 34 year old car. (After all I have read about this pipe removal, I'm shuddering.) That pic of the pipe from the 84 GF, sure looks like the one on my car. The pic in the 83 parts manual I have online also resembles what is on my 87. I guess they could change the pipes/cats due to changing emissions requirements over the years, but that would not appear to be the case.
 

BudW

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 4, 2012
Messages
5,121
Reaction score
1,485
Location
Oklahoma City
The only studs used is between exhaust manifold and cylinder head.
This is from my '87 parts manual:
87 PM page 11-714a.png

87 PM page 11-714h.png


The bolts are nothing special.
One side nut has a built on bracket on it to keep it from spinning (much). The retainer is used to keep the bolt from spinning (much).

Dorman made a Magnum exhaust bolt kit that came with 4 nuts, 4 bolts (both were gold colored grade-8 fasteners) and 4 gold colored retainers. The fasteners are common hardware store items. The retainers are what you need to get your hands on. I think the Dorman kits have been discontinued (maybe, not looked).
I know someone makes the retainers.
The retainer will work for either bolts or nuts.

I found the 6031959 p/n on eBay but, gasp, they want a lot!
Genuine Mopar Nut-Hex Flange Lock 6031959 | eBay
Genuine MOPAR Nut-Hex Flange Lock 6031959 | eBay

BudW
 

Bluejeansthe5th

Active Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2021
Messages
36
Reaction score
15
Location
Newport News, Va.
The only studs used is between exhaust manifold and cylinder head.
This is from my '87 parts manual:
View attachment 45082
View attachment 45083

The bolts are nothing special.
One side nut has a built on bracket on it to keep it from spinning (much). The retainer is used to keep the bolt from spinning (much).

Dorman made a Magnum exhaust bolt kit that came with 4 nuts, 4 bolts (both were gold colored grade-8 fasteners) and 4 gold colored retainers. The fasteners are common hardware store items. The retainers are what you need to get your hands on. I think the Dorman kits have been discontinued (maybe, not looked).
I know someone makes the retainers.
The retainer will work for either bolts or nuts.

I found the 6031959 p/n on eBay but, gasp, they want a lot!
Genuine Mopar Nut-Hex Flange Lock 6031959 | eBay
Genuine MOPAR Nut-Hex Flange Lock 6031959 | eBay

BudW
The fact of the retainers on the top of the flanges, means I have to unbolt that side from the bottom? The item I was referring to was #10. I don't have an 87 parts manual, the 83 manual refers to this part as Stud, shoulder. I have shot Blaster on all the components as best I could, twice several days ago. I don't know if that will help. Probably do it again and let it drip off again tomorrow. I was thinking about stainless steel bolts and nuts to prevent rust. I hope I don't have to do this again...
Thanks for your help.
 

Mikes5thAve

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Messages
1,375
Reaction score
539
Location
Canada
Unbolt it from whichever way you can get the tools on. Usually those fasteners help putting it together but by the time things have to come apart they're either rusty enough or seized enough that they'll break and spin.
 

Mikes5thAve

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Messages
1,375
Reaction score
539
Location
Canada
Well that would make removal and installation a bit easier only having to hold one end. And at least it's on the flange and not the manifold.
 

Bluejeansthe5th

Active Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2021
Messages
36
Reaction score
15
Location
Newport News, Va.
View attachment 45084
Sure enough there is a stud there. Sorry, I missed it.
Please know that I appreciate the help you have been, minor issue of missing the stud. I'm not sure if the stud makes it easier or more difficult. I have been under the car a couple of hours this morning. I have been wrenching on cars as an avocation for 50 years. It sure feels like this car is the most challenging one I have every worked on. It just seems to fight you or put something in the way at every turn. The one bolt that is the least bit clear the outside left one, I have tried to put several 6 point sockets on. 1/2, too small; 9/16 slips easily; 14mm too small; 15 mm slips. I even tried a Gator socket, maybe because it is not perfectly square on the nut, it won't catch. I've used that socket on very seized nuts and bolts in the past with success. In addition, the left cat also seems to be in the way of the top starter nut. I haven't even begun on the right side of the Y- pipe. I ask this question in all seriousness; to any long term technician: Was it the custom to tell customers that needed to have the Y-pipe removed that it had to be destroyed in the process and they would have to buy a replacement? I know the Y-pipe is not longer available and wonder about how to cut the bolts off. I note the easy of access to the exhaust manifold bolts and wonder if that is easier. I dare not tell my best friend Ford oriented wrencher that I need to remove the manifolds to get the y-pipe unbolted.
 

Mikes5thAve

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Messages
1,375
Reaction score
539
Location
Canada
No, the y pipe never had to get destroyed.I will say that's one of the more annoying jobs on the car. I had to stop several times out of frustration.
Don't feel too bad on the Ford guy. Some Ford products have you removing the head to remove the exhaust manifolds!! And then there's there large number of true non removable parts, the non standardized parts that change multiple times etc... And I can complain because I own the things and come from a Ford family..
 
Back
Top