Ignition lock and key froze in on position

Chassis, Suspension and wheels

  1. volare 77

    volare 77 Well-Known Member

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  2. 80mirada

    80mirada Well-Known Member

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    There is a tab that sticks through a slit in the column that keeps the ignition lock in place. 20180513_132904.jpg
    It is a rectangle protrusion on the side of the cylinder, the pick is pointing at.
     
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  3. Justwondering

    Justwondering Well-Known Member

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    I hope I never need this info... but if I do --- totally awesome!
     
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  4. 80mirada

    80mirada Well-Known Member

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    Insert the key and turn to the run position and press the tab in and simply pull out the lock cylinder.
    20180513_132234.jpg
    The pick is pointing to the tab in its slot. I usually use a pick or a small straight blade screw driver. Sometimes the tab can be forced it with a sharp blow to the back of the screwdriver.
     
  5. 80mirada

    80mirada Well-Known Member

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    This column was missing the key when I got it. A 16oz rubber mallet and a straight screwdriver convinced the lock cylinder to cooperate.
     
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  6. 80mirada

    80mirada Well-Known Member

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    20180513_135116.jpg
    Lock plate compressor tools, wide and narrow
    20180513_135411.jpg
    Bolt type harmonic damper/steering wheel puller.

    Each of these tools are available at your local auto parts store, some farm fleet stores, Harbor Freight, or Northern Tool.
     
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  7. 4speedjim

    4speedjim Well-Known Member

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    I went to HF and found the compressor. And pulley puller. They actually have a steering column kit. Fits most cars. Yep, Neither threads on my shaft, the 9/16ths and 14mm in the kit are to large. It must be 1/2"-13 threaded. *sigh* I was thinking since its a GM column, "fits most" ought to work. But I was wrong. Damn. I have the wheel and cover removed and am staring at the lock plate. Do I have an option or must I go back into town and rent or buy another kit that's the correct size? Can I pry it out somehow like in the video maybe push the lock cam back to expose the lock ring? I fear I will break them plastic pins. Or is reasonable pressure safe? Or am I far enough in I might be able to push that lock pin in and R&R the ign. lock? Its in the run position, key is in the lock.
    *** It is the correct kit! - Operator Error - 9/16th is correct. You just have to be smarter than the tool.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
  8. BudW

    BudW Moderator Staff Member

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    I have removed/installed plenty of those “snap rings”.
    There is a short but hefty spring under the lock plate that prevents the snap ring from coming out by itself (or without using the tool) for anti-theft reasons. You must push in on the plate a short distance to remove the ring.
    What I usually do is push plate down a short distance, use a pair of “next size bigger than small” flat blade screwdrivers and pry the snap ring (prying against the lock plate) up to just past the snap ring groove. Remove screwdrivers, remove lock plate compressor – which will push the snap ring up for you, then remove.

    The trick is on reinstall, is the order of parts. I often forget to put snap ring on BEFORE the tool. You can get an open-end wrench (Metric – but forgot size) to assist pushing the snap ring down most of the way down. Then take flat blade screwdriver to palm tap snap ring back into place. Then remove the tool.


    The lock plate tool – I have seen two different sizes, SAE and Metric – and most kits come with both sizes.
    The J-body columns are made by Saginaw (GM) – so I suspect something funny is going on there. A person could make their own tool and use existing steering wheel nut – if you had some time and materials to make a shorter version of this tool.
    I guess it is possible to have three different size tools, one for Chrysler (shrugs shoulders).


    Key locks – automotive, lawn equipment, house doors, filing cabinets, etc. – were not meant to have any liquid substance inserted into them!
    If a lock cylinder needs some lubricant – the only thing to use is graphite powder (which is a very fine powder). The same substance is also used to lubricate speedometer cables or other cables. Any kind of oily substance is – NOT RECOMMENDED.

    The last time I went to my parts store, they no longer carried it (to lubricate my speedometer cable) – so I had to purchase some online. The powder is so fine that if you spill any, it is hard to clean up. Not sticky at all – matter of fact, it is like Teflon, it doesn’t stick to anything - including paper towels. Even tape has a hard time picking it up.
    BudW
     
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  9. 4speedjim

    4speedjim Well-Known Member

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    Ya my remover is marked 9/16 and 14mm. The nut is 13/16 They are too big to thread on my shaft or wrong thread or both. I really didn't want to make a tool, which is why I bought a kit. *sigh* But I guess. I was hoping to spend the time fixing the car not making a once for a lifetime tool. It I can find a same tread nut Id weld it on the end of one of the rods. I think that could work? Frustrating
     
  10. 4speedjim

    4speedjim Well-Known Member

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    Could I use this method to R&R my lock, seeing how I can't at the moment, compress the spring holding the cam plate against the lock ring to get any deeper into the column? The lock and key are stuck in the run position with the key in ignition.
     
  11. 80mirada

    80mirada Well-Known Member

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    The lock plate is in the way. I had to use the mallet and screwdriver to release the locking tab that holds the cylinder in because I didn't have the key to turn it. The thread on the shaft should be 9/16-14 I think.
     
  12. 4speedjim

    4speedjim Well-Known Member

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    Last night I started thinking about it. I agree the 9/16ths should work. I was thinking maybe the threads are too far up in the tool/ the cam plate is too far out for the threads to engage. So I'm going to see if grinding a bit off the end and maybe I can get ahold of the threads. After I get the cam plate moved back I can remove the tool the get at the lock ring?
     
  13. 80mirada

    80mirada Well-Known Member

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    There could be a manufacturing defect at the opening on the tool
     
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  14. 4speedjim

    4speedjim Well-Known Member

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    The threads were bent over, like the column hit the floor? I went out this morning with fresh eyes, daylight and belly full of coffee. Filed the folded thread off and Spun the nut off and on the shaft a few times and the 9/16th Tool went right down the threads! My lock ring is 360* around. Barely could get a thin screw driver blade between, or see the split. Hours wrestling with that chasing the gap round and round the shaft. lol Dental pick and an awl got it. SO I have the signal pack pulled out over the shaft, and the high beam arm or detent (I think) slid down the column, damn.
    I'm now looking for the slot to release the lock. Key is in ignition and its in the run position. Can I get the hump with the ignition in the run position? There is no button like on sum right? I need to find that lock hump?
    Thank God and you for all of your help! Id of never tried this if it wasn't for everyone here so willing to help me. I'm on the home stretch, but not done with questions I am sure.
     
  15. Oldiron440

    Oldiron440 Well-Known Member

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    I have 1976 mopar repair manual, what year are you working on?
     
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  16. 4speedjim

    4speedjim Well-Known Member

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    Its an '81. Thanks OldIron! It was just a few taps with my palm with the screwdriver through the thin slit where the lock resides and it popped out. No button. Post #24, 80Mirada was kind enough tare his apart to photograph. Thank again! So I cant get the key out of the new cylinder. Can I shove it in the hole with the key in the ignition? Is there anything I need to know before I stick the lock in and hopefully begin reassembly?
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
  17. BudW

    BudW Moderator Staff Member

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    The ’79 down steering columns (and lock cylinders) are different from ’80 up versions are (Chrysler design vs. Saginaw (GM) design).
    A lot of aspects work the same - but nothing interchanges between the ’79 down and ’80 up columns. A ’79 down FSM is not a good one to use for the ’80 up column.


    The “button” (if you want to call it that) is not what I would call or consider a button. More like a metal tab that can push down (to remove) if key is at correct position.

    With the lock cylinder removed from car and key is still stuck – don’t mess with it for it is already beyond hope. Just go purchase a new lock cylinder. Then take the new keys (or key tag) with your door lock cylinders to get new door lock cylinders coded to match the new keys.

    Door lock cylinders are cheaper (and way easier) to recode than the ignition lock cylinder is.
    It does require more work on your part, though – but benefits do doing what I mention above far outweigh recoding the ignition lock cylinder.
    A person can reuse your old door lock cylinders (if recoded).
    Note: it is risky to recode an ignition lock cylinder (a locksmith or yourself) to begin with – for there is a high chance of ruining the part.
    BudW
     
  18. 4speedjim

    4speedjim Well-Known Member

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    I bought a complete new OE lock set for the Cordoba when I got the car. The set was around $35-$40 delivered. Ignition, 2 doors, glove box and a trunk lock with the tags. I couldn't pass them up. I didn't like the aftermarket keys that came with the car and they were to worn to copy or decode. I did the trunk last year with the help of many here at FFMJBO.
    It must be the older locks that have a round button you use a nail to release. This has the long narrow slit "tab" for lack of a better description that requires a flat blade screwdriver. So my question is...
    Can I install the NEW ignition lock with the key in the lock? I cant pull the key out while its in my hand. I think I'm suppose to remove the key before I install the lock? I'm not sure why I cant? Will it not lock itself in the column? Anybody know? Ive never been in a column before so please excuse my ignorance and dumb questions. I just want to be sure I do this right.
     
  19. 80mirada

    80mirada Well-Known Member

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    It will pop right in, the lock cylinder is supposed to be in the run position, which require the key. The column I showed in the pictures has no key, and is from an 84 Gran Fury
     
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  20. 4speedjim

    4speedjim Well-Known Member

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    I have the lock installed and it works! (well it turns) Now reassembly.
    We had a quarter paint filly tonight! Beautiful, lots of sorrel, lots of white and legs that go on forever. I walked in the barn to do chores and check on the mare. The filly was falling to the floor. Wife named her Rain... yup! It was raining. Imaginative. (eyes roll) I prefer to give it some time, learn the animal first. Then name it. So I'll get to the car in the morning. Thank you all for the guidance.
    Id never have attempted this without your excellent advice pictures and help!
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018