Making some upgrades and changes

F Body General Discussion

  1. slant6billy

    slant6billy Well-Known Member

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    Do I put the AC back on?

    Would make cruisin much better.

    Do I put 5.13 gears in the rear?

    It would make it real fun at green lights

    My 16 year old daughter wants it repainted purple gumball and drives in 10 months.....


    Decisions ... Decisions IMG_3907.JPG
     
  2. Duke5A

    Duke5A Well-Known Member

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    Looks awesome!

    What's powering the car? trans? rear end? Intend usage?
     
  3. MBDale

    MBDale Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know about 5:13’s. 3:55’s would do.
     
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  4. slant6billy

    slant6billy Well-Known Member

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    Mysterious small block - 85 AHB 318 bottom with a 30 over. The top is 70 or 71 top end from a cuda 340. I did not build it. 904 trans. Rear is a 67 GTX 8 3/4 right now with a 2.94 sure grip 741 case. I have a 742 with 4.10, but with 30 inch tall tires, more gear would be fun. Motor likes screaming rpms in the 6 to 7 grand range.
     
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  5. volare 77

    volare 77 Well-Known Member

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    I have 4.56 gears with a 360. It is great from stop light to stop light but not so good on the highway. I probably will eventually go with a 3.91.
     
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  6. Oldiron440

    Oldiron440 Well-Known Member

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    4.10 gears are all that's needed for a streetcar, I've got 4.88s in my Volare and there good for a race only but on the street with 30" tires your into the power valve at 40 miles per hour. Fuel mileage is very poor. I will be going to 4.10 or 4.30s, the 4.10s I have.
     
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  7. BudW

    BudW Moderator Staff Member

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    I think the 5.13’s will get old really quick, if you drive the car often. I’d recommend trying 3.91 or 4.10’s first and see what you think. At least gears are not as bad to change out in an 8¾” as other differentials are.

    I have 5 different 8¾” center sections in my garage, each with a different ratio, that I collected in the early ‘80’s (when they were a dime a dozen) for experimentation in my ’67 Plymouth Satellite (which had a nice running 340).
    Actually, I'd start with a 3.55's, but if you are already thinking of 5.13's then trying a set of 3.91 or 4.10’s might not be a bad idea.


    The A/C has a few more things involved.
    The cast iron RV2 compressor (aka: the boat anchor) is bullet proof but also weighs a ton.
    79 Lebaron a.jpg
    The aluminum C171 (or aftermarket Sanyo) is lighter and takes a bit less horsepower to rotate (when on).
    89 Fifth Ave.jpg

    73 Charger 318.png
    This is a '73 Body with a Sanyo (aftermarket) kit installed. This is a popular kit, if a person doesn't want to look for OE or original parts.

    Either system does add weight to a car as well as rotational mass (pulleys, clutch, belts, etc.) so adding A/C might not be good if racing the car.
    For cruising, then (again), it depends. I don’t like sweating so, it is worth the effort to convert, in my case, my ’77 factory no-A/C wagon to A/C.

    I will say it is a lot easier to convert a A/C car to non-A/C, than the other way around.

    Other considerations are there will be more heat at/by/through the radiator – so an upgraded cooling system is highly recommended. In my case, replacing the 18” (or 20 or 22") radiator to the larger 26” version (if you don't already have the 26" radiator to begin with. My current 18” radiator can’t even keep my car from pegging the temp gauge in 100’+ F (38’+ C) as it is.

    ’76-79 F and M body A/C dash systems (evaporator cases/firewalls) are considerably different from the ’80-89 FMJ dash systems. If a person is considering converting a ’76-79 factory non-A/C car over, I would use the ’80-89’s Evaporator system.

    What age is drivers permit/drivers license there?
    In Oklahoma, kids can drive at 16 and get permits at 15½ (drive with a licensed driver in pass seat). My twins are now at 12½ . . .
    BudW
     
  8. slant6billy

    slant6billy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I'd like the later style Sanden or Sanyo. Car was an AC car, so just putting parts back on, with the later style upgrade.

    The Commie state of NJ is 17 for license, but with restrictions. My oldest just got hers at 17 and 8 months due to backlog and we waited. She uses my Wife's late sister's Civic as her car. My middle daughter has more of a retro style and would dig driving a Plymouth Volare.
     
  9. BudW

    BudW Moderator Staff Member

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    What about the
    and different gears aspect, for her?

    Don't you have a couple (or more) F's?
     
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  10. Aspen500

    Aspen500 Well-Known Member

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    Bouchillon makes all sorts of conversion brackets (RV2 to Sanden, etc). Got all my brackets from them, along with the hose fittings, compressor and bulk hose. Brackets fit perfectly. Mocked up the lines and had Glen-Ray (a local radiator shop) do the bubble crimps and silver soldering to meld the new with the old.
    DSCF0007.JPG
    DSCF0008.JPG
     
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  11. old yellow 78

    old yellow 78 Well-Known Member

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    Aspen500, your engine bay is so immaculate that I would hesitate to drive it! Super nice!;)
     
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  12. Aspen500

    Aspen500 Well-Known Member

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    I used to hesitate to drive it but am slowly overcoming it and don't worry about every piece of sand on the road anymore. Once a car gets a few rock chips (i.e. "patina") on the rockers and undercarriage, you tend to not worry so much. Still will never see the rain though.
     
  13. BudW

    BudW Moderator Staff Member

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    A/C hoses are not that difficult to get made. I know the local NAPA (here) sells all the different ends Chrysler uses/used, so even making custom lengths isn’t too hard or too bad on the pocketbook.

    It might be cheaper (possibly) to find/obtain used engine brackets for the Chrysler aluminum C-171 compressor. The C-171 is a decent compressor and its only problem that I see, is front crank seal leakage – which occurs if A/C is not used every few months or so. Those ceramic seals won’t leak if A/C is turned on at least a minute every few months or so. The worse thing for A/C compressors is to let one sit for months/years without any usage.
    150793510280_1.jpg

    If looking for used pulleys/brackets for the C-171, there is two different versions.
    One is the ’78-87 version, that uses the older style alternator.
    r111683a_ang_wdp.PNG
    And the ’88-92 (pre-Magnum) that uses the newer style alternator.
    Denso.jpg
    The new style will put out more amperage (if existing wiring allows for it – don’t burn your car down due to over-amping the wiring) and it has an easier way to tighten the drive belts. Pickups and vans might be the easiest ones to find brackets for.

    There is also the ’78-87 bracket set that uses the 100-amp alternator, but that is bulky, heavy and not needed for a car like yours.
    r211684a_ang_wdp.PNG

    I do recommend getting both the pulleys, brackets (including alternator bracket(s)) and all bolts – just so you are not missing anything.

    The alternator pulley will need a double-belt pulley. If your alternator currently has a double-belt pulley, then you are set. If not, either get a pulley (and pulley puller/installer) or an alternator with a double-belt pulley.

    Drain the coolant before messing with the compressor bracket (water pump) bolts, or you will have a mess on your hands, as well as getting coolant into the engine oil (which is not good). Putting a dab of anti-seize compound on the (long) water pump bolts might be a great idea.

    The ’80-89 FMJ hose that connects the drier/expansion valve/compressor is different than the ’78-79 FM versions. The ’78-79 version looks like Aspen500’s car where the expansion valve is level to ground. The ’80-89 FMJ expansion valve is tilted and hoses just don’t like being contorted to fit (they will fit, but some name calling might slip out, by accident – that kids might overhear).

    DSCF0007m.jpg
    white circle is the expansion valve.

    20160829_140132a.jpg
    This is from my ’86 Fifth Ave. The angle is not good to explain things, but to help out, the voltage regulator is level and in same position (and angle) as Aspen500’s voltage regulator is. The arrows point to the ignition coil.

    The aftermarket A/C condensers are tiny compared to the original parts. I bought one a few years back and the original one had 3 times the tubes in it and is twice as thick. More tubes = more time for heat transfer which = better A/C cooling. Nothing wrong with the (tiny) aftermarket ones, but if you can find an original (new or used) I would highly recommend using it. I have a couple of nice used ones tucked away in my garage for safekeeping.

    I also recommend using R-134a refrigerant instead of R-12 (if you can even find any). Make sure your lines, condenser, evaporator cores are flushed out good (including getting rid of those cobwebs and bugs…). A new or reman compressor typically comes without oil, so easy to use the correct oil (R-12 oil is different from R-134a oil is – and both are not compatible with each other).

    Getting correct parts gathered will take longer than the actual install will take. If you get parts and is not sure about something, shoot me a picture. I don’t even mind giving you my phone # so you can call or even text a picture first – if you find a potential parts car.
    BudW
     
  14. BudW

    BudW Moderator Staff Member

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    One last thing is the C-171 compressor uses a small block intake manifold that has the offset (to drivers side) thermostat. The RV-2 compressor is not as deep as the C-171 style is. The C-171 sits a bit off-center of intake and the rear compressor mount sits in same location as the older (center located) thermostat intakes.
    I have seen people not install the rear compressor to intake bracket and still use the older intake, but you can feel the compressor is, um, not attached firmly after install. If not sure which intake you have, you can take a picture of it and it can tell you.

    These pictures are not great, but if you look at thermostat hole in relation to the bypass hose hole, it helps.
    This intake has a boss midway between thermostat and passenger side of intake for the rear compressor bracket.
    2176 Performer.jpg
    Performer 2176. '78 and newer OE intakes are similar.

    This intake has no boss nor will the bracket come close to fitting.
    Edelbrock Performer RPM 7176.PNG
    Performer RPM 7176. '77 and older OE intakes are similar.
    BudW
     
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  15. Oldiron440

    Oldiron440 Well-Known Member

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    Aspen 500 what headers are those?
     
  16. Aspen500

    Aspen500 Well-Known Member

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    They are Schumacher "Tri-Y" headers. Pricey but excellent quality and fit like a glove.

    R-12 is not even worth using anymore. We have some at work yet but it's in the area of $100/lb now.

    I believe the Bouchillon compressor brackets allow you to use a centered or offset t-stat configuration.

    I've got a stock condenser (thank you Jim!) and with R134a, the air comes out the vents about 38 degrees, even in the hottest weather. To use it and the expansion valve, I used the original plates and hard lines, cut off the tubes and had adapters silver soldered on to connect to the new hoses and fittings.

    You have to check, some compressors come with oil in them. Usually it's the amount the compressor requires, not the entire system. When changing a compressor only, no additional oil is needed. Starting with a "dry" system, you need to either drain the compressor into a graduated cup and then add that amount plus additional needed for system capacity. Some have a tag that say how many ounces of oil are in them, Then you only have to add enough PAG oil (for R134a) for the capacity. Too much oil is as bad as not enough so, don't add "a little extra just for good measure" lol.

    Side note: The people at Bouchillon are great. I called them and explained what I needed to do and the guy I talked to knew exactly which pieces, parts and adapter fittings that were required to do it.

    Side side note: On the subject of A/C, NEVER use the off the shelf self charging cans like A/C Pro. They have sealer in them and they seal the leaks, including the ones you want like the orifice tube or expansion valve. Get at least one or two a week in the shop where the owner used that crap and now a leak repair turns into a much bigger, and expensive, job. When the high side pressure hits 450 and the low side is almost n a vacuum, you know you're going to be awhile. Doesn't do the filter in our A/C machine any favors either.
     
  17. slant6billy

    slant6billy Well-Known Member

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    Na... me just the 2.Mild booboo. Gator is the man with the NL-HL full infection with TWO 79 roadrunners, 78 roadrunner, 80 R/T. I just get to hang at Gator's Mopar Swamp Garage when I'm not donating the rest of my soul to my office job herding kittens
     
  18. Aspen500

    Aspen500 Well-Known Member

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    The Mythbuster's busted that one. Cats and kittens can't be herded, lol.
     
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  19. Super Coupe Man

    Super Coupe Man Member

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    I would go with 3:55 to drive on the street and purple looks great on the F-bodies
     
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  20. 8T2TOP

    8T2TOP Well-Known Member

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    If 70s car I prefer R12 over 134..
    Way colder...
     
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