RPM limit question?

Davesmopar

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LA360 stock short block except for resized rods with ARP bolts.. forged pistons....
valve train aside...

Do I need to stick to 6,000 shifts or would it be safe to 6,500 or maybe even 7,000 (he asked while cringing)???
 

69-

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:eek: Uhhj... I have no idea, sorry.
I hardly go anywhere past 3,3k at all with any of my 318, 360, 383... ;):cool:
(sorry, couldn't resist)
 

Oldiron440

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You should be able to get by with a few more rpm say 6500 but you'll need a cam the makes peek power around 6300. Otherwise you're turning for no gain.
 

Duke5A

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Factory main caps and bolts? Power also factors into it. Honestly, if you're using factory bolts on the mains with a bob weight no lighter than stock I wouldn't go past 6k.

Is this a driver or a bracket engine?
 

Oldiron440

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I used factory bolts on my 500" 440 back when I was turning it 7200 rpm.without fail! The need for replacement main bolts just isn't there, mopar did a few things correctly. I highly doubt that 360 will have enough to push the crank out.
 

M_Body_Coupe

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LA360 stock short block except for resized rods with ARP bolts.. forged pistons....
valve train aside...

Do I need to stick to 6,000 shifts or would it be safe to 6,500 or maybe even 7,000 (he asked while cringing)???
So are you asking about the engine's ability to achive the 6.5-7K range, or it's ability to tollerate that level?

The valvetrain mostly will control it's ability to get there, the bottom end will dictate it all staying together! lol

Given your "...valve train aside..." comment I'm thinking you are wondering if the bottom end will hold up.

I agree with the other guys, I think it will. Having said that, I pushed my 360 up to 6.5K routinely, this was with HP116CP pistons, ARP rod and main bolts and otherwise stock hardware elsewhere. Upon disassembly I did see a good amount of main cap walk on a couple of mains. This is the reason why I went to a stud on my W2 stroker build.
 

Oldiron440

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I've got to say that I'm assuming the 360 is balanced with the new pistons.
 

Aspen500

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The usual failure that starts engine destruction are the rod bolts. With ARP's, I agree with the others about 6,500 rpm if you don;'t run into valve float sooner.

I knew a guy once who always said the way to find the maximum safe rpm is keep going until it blows, then subtract a couple hundred rpm.:p Same guy that figured max boost on a forced induction engine was keep turning the boost up until it grenades, and then go 1 less psi. One of those people that I think actually did it that way. He was forever building a new engine for his car. "What happened to the other one?" "Tossed the crank out the pan" or something similar was a typical answer, and he never seemed to learn! He had more dollars than sense.
 

Duke5A

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I used factory bolts on my 500" 440 back when I was turning it 7200 rpm.without fail! The need for replacement main bolts just isn't there, mopar did a few things correctly. I highly doubt that 360 will have enough to push the crank out.

Not so much concerned with catastrophic failure as I would be with cap walk. That's why I asked what he's building it for.

What did the main bearings look like on your motor?
 

Oldiron440

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Not so much concerned with catastrophic failure as I would be with cap walk. That's why I asked what he's building it for.

What did the main bearings look like on your motor?
Main and rods were perfect after 250 runs and a couple thousand miles. There was no problems infact I put them back in.
 

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I can't comment about RPM's in yours case, other I've had my mostly stock '69 340 up to 7k RPM's a couple of times. Both times it wiped out the bearings in my cast iron water pump(s) (the '69 and older used cast iron pumps). You know something is off when you hear the ball bearings bounce off of the bottom of car several times while driving.
I'm sure the newer ('70-92) aluminum water pumps with the larger bearings should do better.
BudW
 

Davesmopar

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Just asking if the bottom end will hold up to 6500.... stock main bolts, ARP rod bolts...

When I built the engine years ago, I had a 340 engine that wound up having a cracked block, so I used the heads intake and 340 spec cam and put on the 360....

It was built to handle safely 150 shoot N.O.S.... (never installed)....

Heads are fully ported and polished and intake matched...

Had planned on running bigger cam (heads already for it) but never got around to it (life happens)....

Now I have the cam, rpm airgap and carb, roller rockers etc etc... and just trying to figure out my RPM limit.. (kinda forgot over the years)....

BTW, it will be a Red light to Red light car with hopefully some 1/8th mile use......

Right now it will hang with a dynotuned 420HP hemi Challenger..... (that's a whole nother story... lol)....
 

Oldiron440

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You might be ok with the stock rod bolts but I would actually put good bolts in. them.

Steve D has an opinion about ARP bolts that I can agree with.
 
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Davesmopar

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I did say multiple times that I have ARP Rod Bolts......... and they were stretched and checked by a shop that built ProMod engines.....

But I have read that about head Bolts....

I am probably going to advance my cam and shift at 6k and be done with it....
Or at most 6500 on special occasions.....

But I am probably to lazy to swap out the rev limiter anyway.... lol
 

BudW

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Head bolts and rod bolts (that use nuts) are two different things. Most newer engines use rod bolts that thread into the rod itself, so those bolts would be treated like head bolts (the more thread (without bottoming out) the better. My big block stroker kits don't use rod nuts - the bolts thread into the rod itself. Almost every (older engine) connecting rod bolts (that use nuts), the studs extend past the nut - so length is a non-issue.

If you really wanted to find out shift RPM's, take engine(s) (plural) to a dyno to find out when the power starts to drop off and/or when engine blows up. Once both of those numbers are determined, then you have a better idea on shift points.
Now, with that said, that "engine blowing up on purpose" is well outside the budget of most folk - but does give you some hard numbers. Many high $$$ race teams do just this to get that hard data and also to perform diagnosis on failed parts for several other reasons. Some of these race teams know exactly how much oil pressure (or volume) to use (for parasitic loss reasons), engine oil level (at high RPM's most engine oil can be on top end) and so on/so forth.

I'm getting to the point for an engine that is going to be built to be stressed, to just put new rods in it to begin with (with new fasteners). Connecting rods are cheap when compared to unknown engine history or driven hard. Now a 318 2-bbl engine, its not worth it. They already have a built in rev limiter.
Also, if you are building an engine, the cost for rods and pistons is almost worth the cost for a stroker kit. 40 to 100 more cubic inches and to get compression ratio to a better number might be well worth the expense.
BudW
 

AJ/FormS

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LA360 stock short block except for resized rods with ARP bolts.. forged pistons....
valve train aside...

Do I need to stick to 6,000 shifts or would it be safe to 6,500 or maybe even 7,000 (he asked while cringing)???
With KB107s , late 318 bushed rods , and a stock cast crank, all ARP fasteners/externally balanced, valvetrain aside, I regularly wind my LA up to 7000 ....... on the street...... even tho she hasn't been opened up since 2004/5.
Currently she has well over 100,000miles on the clock.
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I used a dash-mounted accelerometer to map the power curve of my engine. I think it was called a Dyno-Rad or something.That was back in the early 2000s. It was cheap as heck, and worked great.
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With my gearing, @7000; First gets me a lil over 50mph, Second to 82, Third to 113, and I've never tried more than 120 in 4th @5700. Well maybe this one time,lol.
On one certain roadtrip, she cruised all day in double-od at 85=2100......
1968 Barracuda; 367/A833/3.55s/GVod/3650 me in it/street only.
 
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