So... I'm having a Merry Christmas.....

[SonOfaTomP]

First off, i'm probably one of, if not THE youngest guy here so i don't really know how to work on these cars. i pretty much only know enough to get me off the side of the road, so keep that in mind. I have been daily driving my 88 Gran Fury for 5 years now. i had it's Lean Burn system deleted at a shop in PG County two years ago. It now has a standard 70s style ignition system.

3 weeks ago i had come home after driving around 30 miles i admit somewhat aggressively (speeding). car took it like a champ and never complained once as she has for years now. the following morning she would only crank and crank only making it to almost starting before i turned the key to try again. car has no spark. i had it towed to a local shop and they checked the pick up in the distributor, replaced the coil, the orange box, and i personally replaced the dreaded ballast resistor. only got us to have intermittent spark. Car is getting gas to the carb, you can see it if you look down the bow and smell itl, and all of the interior lights come on, the radio, and headlights.

Mechanic thinks it is a wiring issue and didn't want to mess with it further. i have sent it back to the shop who did the ignition conversion and i hope to hear something good from them soon. just want to know if any of you guys have any insight on what is going on. A person on Facebook said the car sounds like it's timing is messed up when it cranks. i can't tell but can you?

not only is it Christmas time but this is also my Birthday month. been a very crappy December. been driving a family member's Chrysler 200 these past few weeks and boy do modern cars suck to drive. at least Velvet is safe from the salt for now.

 

[volare 1977]

I know a lot of old people that don`t know how to work on cars too.

 

[AMC Diplomat]

Probably a bad ground to the ECU or a bad wire in the harness. It's probably flooding from all that cranking.

The wiring all depends on which aftermarket ignition system is in it. They're all basically the same but with slight differences

 

[dm330]

Merry Christmas and happy birthday! I hope they get your car back on the road asap.

 

[Remow2112]

Depending on what you want to learn there are a lot of us on here that can help you figure it out. That being said, first thing I always do on these cars (this is just me) is get an MSD 6a and better coil (Blaster 2 is fine, I have taken to using the ecoil from Pertronix) and loose the ballast resistor. I find it a vastly superior ignition to stock. Probably over kill but worth it.
I didn't see see info on miles so it is possible that you have had the original nylon "quiet" timing chain jump a tooth or 2. Most of the time these cars don't magically develop a wiring issue unless some has messed with the wiring or something got connected wrong and got smoked. Could have a wire rub against something and be grounding out but when that is attached to starting system tends to be pretty dramatic.

 

[Mikes5thAve]

I have one car with MSD of some variant, one with the computer still and a couple with thd normal stock style electronic ignitin with the ballast and never had problems with any of them.

This is the kind of situation I like using one of those test lights that goes inline with the spark plug or even just a timing light to confirm its getting spark. At least that rules thst put. Most of my problems over the years have been carb or fuel related.

When a ballast resistor goes bad it'll start but then stop when you let go of the key so they're pretty easy to rule out. I've only ever had one go bad and the car was at a shop at the time.

 

[SonOfaTomP]

its all very odd. the only "wiring" i've ever done personally to the car is a failed attempt to fix the horn. i ended up killing the whole thing and put it back together with a splice connector. there was a plug spliced into the horns by the previous owner and only the passenger side horn works. i doubt the wiring to the ECU suddenly failed unless it shorted wherever the mechanic spliced it in. think is, it was all wrapped up and tubed very nicely. from videos i've seen online it seems these orange boxes are grounded out by a washer behind where they are mounted? i wonder if that fell off? grabbing it, it never felt loose at all. and plug was on tight. what would cause it to suddenly ground out, out of nowhere? the only thing off about it was some black scuff marks on top of the orange box. That could have come from anywhere.


when the orange box is put in, the original ignition box on the firewall is dead right? i replaced that just to be sure and it did nothing. and my shop says they tried a new orange box,so its all very strange. only thing i know we haven't looked at is the starter relay. been told this wouldn't have played a factor as the starter wouldn't have even engaged. i have two replacements, or are they horn relays i can't tell.

in my check... boy was my distributor cap dirty.... Spark plugs were probably just meeting their replace date. in 5 years i had only put 20k miles on her. had just picked up some RN12YCs. there were no obvious misfires that i could hear but she always hated hills. was a slight delay in acceleration but most every car i've driven has this delay carbureted or otherwise. maybe my family are just terrible car owners?

for now i am enjoying Christmas with my family. i likely won't hear from the shop till after new years. I appreciate the diagrams AMC.

just thought of something. the drive prior to my break down i had parked over some grass taking things off a parts car. i wonder if i took an uninvited guest home? could an engine carry a mouse 30 minutes home at full speed? i'd have squashed him right?

 

[Justwondering]

Tom ...
I had a mouse living, literally, living in the hood of one of my cars... in between the 'sandwich' hood parts (inner & outer metal).
I've had pack rats survive two cats, 1/4 cup of rat poison/bate, 100+ degree temps, and freezing temps.

NEVER underestimate the damage a mouse/packrat can do.

That being said, all my wiring damage that caused non-start conditions was related to 1) chewed through the ground wire or 2) chewed through the main electric line involving the battery.

All my other chewed wiring just took out an isolated part.... the electric motor to the radio antenna, the motor to the washer fluid container, etc.

Re-read the posts above and do more testing. Don't throw parts at it without narrowing down the problem area. That's what we do here... very glad you are here to participate..

JW

 

[SonOfaTomP]

well, before i had the car towed away i was going to have this wire replaced. negative battery terminal to the rear of the alternator? couldn't figure out how to unbolt this. shop "says" they tested it but i kinda don't believe em.

i'mma be mad as hell if the guy calls me and says its this. how would i get this anyways? is the end of it like a fork so i could just pull it out or is the end like a circle so i'd have to remove the whole bolt. not a lot of room there.

 

[Mikes5thAve]

Unless someone has loosened it that wouldn't be the problem.
Thst looks like the air pump. You'd pull the bolts and either flip it but or remove it all together and push it aside to get behind it.

 

[Ele115]

That cap looks horrendous. You have spark jumping everywhere. Replace the plugs wires and cap and rotor with GOOD stuff and check everything again. It will probably start, but do it all. Timing carb adjustment and gap your plugs before they go in. Don't trust what they give you. I am surprised that ran

 

[AMC Diplomat]

when the orange box is put in, the original ignition box on the firewall is dead right? i

in my check... boy was my distributor cap dirty....



View attachment 54777

What box on the firewall are you referring to? The voltage regulator?

And I agree with @Ele115 you have spark jumping all over. Contact @Halifax Hops for the right stuff. There are differences in rotors and caps and the aftermarket stuff can really be hit or miss. All Hops does is Mopar ignitions. He's THE guy for this stuff.

 

[Ele115]

You have to really watch the parts especially the rotor. I have seen a few where the rotor has the little contact about 15 or more degrees off. I have seen them really lose. You don;t want aluminum contacts. If they aren't gold, forget it. It's getting really bad with the parts.

 

[SonOfaTomP]

yeah that is the voltage regulator isn't it... needless to say replacing it did nothing.

i did sand the distributor contacts and that didn't do much. things are surprisingly hard to put back on. i have watched guys on youtube rotate the whole thing when they're having no start problems. something about timing. not going to lie i'd probably mess that up. car never backfired or anything can could pull really nicely. drove down the highway just fine. just a slight delay when mashing the gas. i guess there are subtle signs I need to be looking out for.

ain't Halifax Hops located in Southern Pennsylvania. i recall he was at Carlisle iirc. might be worth a trip up there if it ain't too far from the Mason Dixon line

 

[Mikes5thAve]

Name brand cap and rotor are uaually pretty good and better then what you have on there now.
Your orange box is on your fender I thought I saw in one of your pics.
The wiring won't suddenly go bad unless it was damaged or a connection got loose, both those are pretty easy to spot - look along the wiring that was added with the conversion. You can follow the diagrams posted earlier and use a volt meter or test light to make sure it's getting power at the various spots.

 

[SonOfaTomP]

just got the call today. it was the pickup. very weird. my other shop said they tested it already. ah well at least i got the old girl back in time for new years. shop also told me i ought to put zinc in my oil.

 

[dm330]

just got the call today. it was the pickup. very weird. my other shop said they tested it already. ah well at least i got the old girl back in time for new years. shop also told me i ought to put zinc in my oil.

Did they give a reason why on the zinc? I thought only the pre-85 model years would need it.

 

[SonOfaTomP]

Did they give a reason why on the zinc? I thought only the pre-85 model years would need it.

said my oil was getting really dirty really fast. i was 2k miles away from my next scheduled change.

 

[Camtron]

Zinc additive is not needed for a roller cam; the wear pattern on a roller is much different from that of a flat tappet to where ZDDP brings no benefit and can actually be harmful in the long run.

 

[AMC Diplomat]

said my oil was getting really dirty really fast. i was 2k miles away from my next scheduled change.

Adding zinc is a waste of money and @Camtron is right. Check your breather and pcv valve or using a better filter.

There's a lot of good information out there about mopar ignitions and how to check them with multi meters