The long and short tails of a 4 speed OD with the J Body console

J Body General Discussion

  1. 4speedjim

    4speedjim Well-Known Member

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    Morning everyone! I had an interesting and productive day yesterday. I found a few ads I followed up on and came home with a set of stock 1.60 ex valve 915 heads and not one, but two 833 OD transmissions. One mid or long tail and one short tail and a small block bell. I didnt know which one I needed so I brought both home. I decided I definitely want an OD because Im probably dropping a stroked Big Block in once thats ready. I dont want to butcher up my floor with a 518, NAG1 or 4500 5 speed so this was my best option. Im not sure which one will work best to fit my center console? I have a 3.73 posi disc brake Exploder 8" with the center section offset 2.5 in from center and its 60" wms to wms. My though was to use the shorter tail shaft to help with the driveshaft angle, or is there other things Im not considering? Id rather not go through the expense of centering the 8" pumpkin if I can help it. What shifter and rods am I going to need? Does it even matter as long as its not an ISM or whatever that off brand was? Im wondering with the OD if I need a specific mechanism or if any 833 shifter can work? Any experience, help or comments are greatly appreciated!
     
  2. DCAspen

    DCAspen Well-Known Member

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    I think there was a guy on here years ago that put a 4 speed in a mirada,Pretty sure he used F-Body manual tranny set up.
     
  3. 4speedjim

    4speedjim Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for that DCAspen! I get these brain farts from time to time. Its embarrassing to admit, but F cars never came to mind. I could have kept my mouth shut but... whats the fun in that? I just paid for a set of pedals after reading your post. Any Hurst shift mechanism ok or do I need a F body one designed for the OD anyone know?
     
  4. BudW

    BudW Well-Known Member

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    A and F-bodies only came from factory with short tailhousing 4-speeds.

    A long tailhousing 4-speed will fit and function fine – just as long as you get a tailhousing with both shifter pads on it.

    Overdrive 833 4-speeds only came in A & F-bodies, pickup/vans and a very very few B-bodies.
    B-body and truck/vans had the long tailhousing version.\
    The factory made more mid/late ‘70’s 3-speed manual B-bodies than 4-speed, and to date – I hadn’t seen one with either transmission type.

    The long tailhousing driveshaft length will be the same as a 727. Short tailhousing will be same as 904/998/999.

    833 tailhousing’s will interchange with any other 833* (* means short tailhousing with short or long with long. You can change short to long (or vice versa) with appropriate tail shaft).
    BudW
     
  5. BudW

    BudW Well-Known Member

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    I was just told by a friend, that I’m wrong.
    The A/F shifter pad is different location than B, C and E are (so scratch what I said in my last post).
    tailhousing-shifterpad-locations.jpg
    BudW
     
  6. 4speedjim

    4speedjim Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, I'm going to need to take a look at them again. The longer tail looked more like the E body housing you pictured IIRC? The shorter tail is an A or F, and the longer tail only had one shift location, near the back. Maybe their a mixture of junk slapped together for a quick sale? I don't believe thats the case, my memory? I know that is slapped together junk and 200 mph tape. I'll get a better look at them and let ya know what I find tomorrow. Thanks for all your help
     
  7. AJ/FormS

    AJ/FormS Well-Known Member

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    Before you get carried away stick a 727 front driveshaft yoke into the back,and see what splines are on the m/s. The short one could easily be a 904 sized shaft, and Ima thinking that would last about 4 seconds behind a stroked BB. The long one is probably a large shaft.
    I installed a longshaft into my 68 Barracuda and custom mounted the shifter between the buckets; no more missed shifts. You will need to make your own rods and they need to be beefy, at least 1/2 inch cold-rolled seamless.
    Be advised that the OD-gear that rides on the m/s, is barely adequate to take 318-2bbl cruizing power. If you accidentally shift into o/d with any kind of power; Zing! it's gone. I shredded two of them with a warmed up 367. Which is not the end of the world........unless the pieces end up between other gears.
    You would be waaaay ahead with an automatic with the kind of torque you're gonna be making.
    If you really want a 4 speed, then the standard A 833 would be the way to go. with that engine.In a streeter, you won't need much gear in the back, so you know the rest of the story.
    If you really want a huge starter gear, then run the 3.09 low SET from a 65 273. the other ratios are the same. The 3.09 has 16% more TM so you can run 16% less gear, turning 3.91s to 3.37s. In other words 2.66x3.91 =10.4, while 10.4/3.09=3.37. This rounds down to the common 3.23s which, with 28s will cruize at 2520=65. You can work out other ratios.
    Of course there are 5-speeds.
    And then there is the GVOD.
    The GVOD can be wired as a splitter,not that your engine would need it, but my little 367 loves it.If you go this route GV will sell you an adapter to install it onto the longshaft. It must go on the L/S to get down out of the tunnel. In 2004, there was no adapter for the short tail. If you go this route with the 833od, then I highly recommend to pull that mickey-mouse overdrive gear outta there, and locking the shifter so you cannot get into that gate.
    You might think what's the purpose of that, cuz now you're back to a 4-gear.
    No-no my friend, now you have a very close ratio 6speed, one of the strongest boxes out there. The ratios are 3.09-2.41-1.67-1.30-1.00-.78od. (GVOD in red.) The splits are .78-.69-.78-.77-.78
    This works super excellent with any rear gear. And you can leave the GV alone and shift it as a regular 3-speed+1 on the street.
    You can also slap this on a 65- 273 trans with the 3.09 low. I have done both and prefer this.
    The ratios are; 3.09-2.41-1.92-1.50-1.40-1.09-1.00-.78od. count 'em. Now you can't use them all in a row cuz 2 of the splits are too close together, so you have to choose one or the other. I have run this combo with 4.88s,4.30s,3.91s,3.55s and lower, but my street favorites are the 3.55s with 27" tires.
    On the street I shift it pretty normal; 1-2-3-3od-4od. When I'm tracking it 1/8th or showing off, I shift 1-1od-2-2od and done cuz the speed is coming up to 106mph. If I was to quarter it I would shift 1-1od-2-3 and 7000 is 114mph. The starter gear is always 10.97.
    I imagine with that engine, you will need a 4.10/direct to trap(qtr), and so now with this new trans, you might want to use 3.73s and trap in 3od which is a 4.07FD. The starter would be 11.53 which is same as 2.66 x 4.30s. You would shift 1-2-3-3od. You could split 1-2 but I doubt you'd be any quicker with that engine. At all other times you would shift it as a 4+1. In the 1/8, it would probably be 1-2-3. For cruising, well 3.73 x .78=2.91s and with 28s that would be 2270rpm.
    Any questions?
    How much? Last time I looked they were $2400 USD.
    Will they survive your engine? Yes, they come ready for 1200 hp, more than the 833 can take. They can be upped.
    How about longevity? Mine is still taking abuse from my 400ish 367, after more than 80,000 miles.
    Downside? Yes there is a downside. These units must not be engaged in reverse, that will spell instant crunch.So you have to create an interlock to prevent that.A rebuild runs 50% of regular retail. No, they will not sell you tools to do it yourself.
    Install hang-ups? Well in a swb like my Barracuda, setting the pinion angle for street springs is a bit of a pain, in terms of eliminating vibration. If you use SS springs, or something stiffer than mine,lol, or a custom rear suspension,then it should be no trouble.
    Or you can wait for Passon Performance. He has a unit you might like, but delivery might be a year down the road.
    I still think auto is the way to go for that monster engine.
    If you take away only one thing from this post, let it be this.... That A833 od gear is a disaster in the making;for you. When it blows up no one knows where the pieces will end up. If it happens to you, immediately clutch it and shut off the engine. Coast/brake to a stop and put it into neutral. Engage the park-brake and flatdeck it home. If you drive it (which you will want to, cuz all the other gears may still work), sure as heck those bits will get into the gears and then it gets expensive.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
  8. BudW

    BudW Well-Known Member

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    I’m not an 833 expert – but I have worked with more than most people have, with them.

    A long tail housing (B/C/E/Truck) will fit in an A/F-Body – but the shifter won’t fit without a lot of fabrication. The transmission crossmember is the key item.

    IIRC they made long housings in B only, in E only and finally in both shift pad locations.
    I “think” the early E-bodies had an “E-body” only tail housing - for a short time.
    The long tail housing front pad works for B and C-body as well as pickup and vans.

    I think all long tail housings made after ‘72 (or ’73) had both shifter pad locations on them – until the end of production, IIRC.

    Almost all pickup/van 833’s were overdrive and none were installed in 4*4’s. For a while, a lot of 833’s were purchased by GM for use in their pickups.

    Some of the mid ‘70’s 833’s have an aluminum case and tailhousing. I think these were featured in the Feather Dusters and other gas mileage miser cars. These transmission were great way to put a car on a diet – but the main case didn’t do very well under moderate to high horsepower applications – because the counter shaft bearings use the aluminum (housing) as a bearing surface.

    If you have an aluminum case 833 that has the bearings wiped out in them – don’t toss the case. Just take the case to a machine shop to have a metal bearing race installed – then you have one lightweight and long lasting transmission.

    The only way I can tell and overdrive 833 is to look at the front shifter lever (providing the shifter and levers are still attached).
    If the front shift lever (3rd and 4th) is mounted upwards, then you do not have an overdrive.
    The overdrives have the front shift lever (3rd and OD) mounted downwards. The shifter will work either way (after adjusted).

    If the shifter rods are removed – then it will require inspection cover removal to tell which transmission type you have.
    67 FSM pg 21-15.JPG
    Non-Overdrive

    77 FSM pg 21-19.JPG
    Overdrive

    tailhousing-shifterpad-locations.jpg
    An updated picture from earlier.
     
  9. BudW

    BudW Well-Known Member

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    I will agree – the Overdrive version is not as a strong unit as a normal 833 is – but I haven’t seen the problems with them as AJ/Form has seen – it appears.
    Also, I agree and I wouldn’t put one in a moderate to high horsepower application – but mainly because of the gear ratios are not the best for your needs.

    The strength problem I have seen, are the ones with aluminum cases (see above post), for the most part.

    For a normal 318 2-bbl or /6 then the 833 Overdrive is wonderful.
    If I was to drop in a built 360 or big block, It will work while you gather parts (and/or money) to get an 833 (or whatever) with the gear ratios that work better for your engine.


    I want to install a Tremec 5-speed or Magnum 6-speed into my wagon – even with the 318 2-bbl car has it currently – because: I (highly) prefer manual transmissions, it has the overdrive built in and the gear ratios I prefer.
    The problem is neither will fit without extensive floor pan and transmission crossmember modification.
    An 833 would drop right in with correct components (like shifter, shifter tunnel, etc.) on hand.

    The other problem is money. Neither the Tremec 5-speed or Magnum 6-speed are cheap. The good news is both are rated for more horsepower than I intend on putting out with my big block(s).

    With all of the flood vehicles from Houston area – I’ll be on the lookout for a 6-speed, to rebuild, from that area.
    BudW
     
  10. 4speedjim

    4speedjim Well-Known Member

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    AJ/forms Thanks for all the info! Theres a 10 gallon hat full to digest for sure! My thoughts on the OD gear was to treat it like a 518 and Pray.... A Lot!! Strictly low RPM interstate, no towing, no throttle, not passin' go in OD. My travels are all flat lands. Im thinking Im not likely to have enough tire to break anything but the OD, if Im stupid with it. Im aware of the dangers of hanging that 23 spline /6 OD off a 550+ Lbft BB. Thats why I have 2! So I can get home with the car. lol I dont have the patients to wait another year for Passon OD gear set. Best case is I get out of the driveway before I make a pile of chunk and chips! Its just a street car. Im not looking for Max effort... today. I'll get a couple time slips and bring my push broom because you never know, you know?! I found a set of 2.66 gears but then I really want/need the reman GVOD. Given all the issues Im having no luck tracking down A body BB 833 stuff like Z bars, fork, and bell housings arent falling out of the trees these days. Ive been contemplating a stock efi 5.9 833 OD so I can squeeze teens mpg outta it with the OD. But again, finding a 130T 10 or 10.5 inch externally balanced flywheel I can run with efi is WOW!! Its the most expensive part I'll buy. If you could point me twards a reman 727 GVOD unit that would allow me to run the 470/727 or 2.66 4 speed, splitting gears and getting 150+ miles out of a fill up would be ideal. The GVOD has about the same rpm drop as the /6 .73 OD, but with none of the sacrifices. Its a much cheaper, stronger, easier package for me to get together and installed vs starting over with one of my Magnums and a mortgage for a flywheel. Im not gonna cut up my floor for a 5 speed or auto OD. I think Im better off buying a hydraulic throw out bearing set up and eliminating the Z bar, shift fork and accessories. Any BB car bell is ok to use right? Thats not an A body only part I hope.
     
  11. BudW

    BudW Well-Known Member

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    Any big block bell will work – as long as it has an 833 bolt pattern on it.
    Some truck bells don’t have the 833 bolt pattern (which is not symmetrical). The truck transmissions (833 excluded) have a rectangular bolt pattern.

    Matter of fact, I just sold an ’70 aluminum big block bell, a short time ago – that would have worked great for you, possibly.

    Slant6 Bell difference.JPG
    A /6 bell difference. Note: the outline of 833 bolt pattern on Right is clean. The other bolt patterns are dirty. Picture swiped from internet.


    I would have no problem using an overdrive 833 behind a stock/mild big block or mild/hot small block. AJ appears to have had some issues in the past – but I hadn’t had any nor had any friends/family have problems (except for the 833’s with aluminum main case – which is more of an oddity than anything else).

    Matter of fact, my brother has a fairly hot 440-6 Cuda with 833 (not an original car – but looks like one). He has two 833’s for the car. One is production dated (regular spline, not hemi spline) that he can use to tear up the pavement with. The other is a normal overdrive – so he can drive car location to location and get somewhat decent mileage with it. He is not afraid to get on it, with the overdrive – but he also said the ratios are not where they should be for his engine setup.

    I want the best of both worlds and don’t mind the extra floorpan work to make a 5 or 6-speed fit.
    I can see it for my brother – but he doesn’t plan on driving this car every day, like I do.


    NOTE: there are a few different versions of A833 input bearing retainers out there. There are also a few different methods to work around the different versions of those bearing retainers.
    I highly recommend for You to read up about bearing retainers before trying to make something fit into a hole – that it can’t fit in (ie: think square peg/round hole).
    BudW

    Edit: the A618 (diesel) version of A518 is quite beefy. Parts from it can be transferred to an A518 (618 case is different) and you will have a transmission that probably can’t be broken.

    I plan on fitting some A618/47RH transmission parts into a big block 727 case (3-speed), for my 5th Ave – for those parts are stronger than what is even in the Hemi 727’s.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
  12. AJ/FormS

    AJ/FormS Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps I should clarify
    It is only the little 18tooth and 20tooth m/s gears I have shredded; one of each. I didn't know there were two different ones, so I had to buy a third unit, thinking sooner or later I'd have two matching units. And by this time I was a bit worried, so I found a 4th unit for $50 at a swapmeet and grabbed it too. Which worked out to be a good thing, cuz some time later I ripped all the teeth off the input gear set,lol. So now I was accumulating a lotta scrap parts.
    And also, as Bud mentioned, the splits in that box are horrible for a high-rpm engine.
    The ratios are 3.09-1.67-1.00-.73, with splits of .54-.60-.73
    What this means is at the shifts, the rpm will fall to those percents. So a hot 360 with a 292/508 cam will power peak around 5700. If you shift 1-2 at 5700, the Rs will drop to .54 x 5700 =3078. Well the 367/292combo doesn't make a lot of power down there, so your race is over. To make that split work, I had to rev it to 6800 or more, and the Rs dropped to 3672, where the engine was still lazy. The 2-3 is a bit better but not much.
    To get around this, I regeared the back to put second gear where I wanted it. This took 4.88s. The second gear was now revving at 35mph=3550rpm. As you can imagine, first gear was useless, the starter gear now being 4.88 x 3.09= 15.08. So I went to 4.30s, with a starter of 13.29, still excessive.That's when I ordered the GVOD. And regeared it again, to make 1st-od my second gear. This was now 3.55s,BadaBoom; 35mph=3720. Now I had TM, Torque Multiplication.
    So that's why I don't recommend that trans for a high revver.
    With a slanty, where a guy rarely revs past say 4000, that 1-2 split brings the Rs down to 2160, and the slanty gets by OK.
    And a stock teener, might rev to 4500, and drop to 2430,and the teener makes plenty of torque there.
    But I sure wouldn't hang it on a 340, especially a low compression 340.

    Your strokerBB, I'm guessing, will make mountains of low-rpm torque, so powering up from 1500 (having 1-2 shifted at 2800) will probably work just fine. It really depends on the engine build.
    I like shifting at 2800 when just tooling around. My engine is very happy at 2800, and with the 3.09/direct box, the Rs drop to 1730, and my new cam (230@.050) makes plenty of torque down there.
    But in the end I got tired of split-shifting that od-box.With a SBM I found that I HAD to split-shift it most of the time, and RULE #2 from GV is you cannot backshift into an OD gear. So, if I was downshifting, I couldn't get a right gear. I did learn to downshift into a regular gear and simultaneously split, but then I had to delay the clutch for the unit to be fully in-shifted before I laid on the power. It just got to be a PITA. Upshifting was excellent.
    Parting thoughts;
    As to installing a metal bushing in the factory aluminum box, For you that's mandatory. Even my 367 started wallering (thx to RRR for that word) out that hole.
    If you value your kidneys, get the softest organic disc you can find. The CFII is a killer disc. I broke a lotta parts with that beast before I finally pulled it out. If you do use it,I suggest a driveshaft loop, or at the least a 1350 front joint. I haven't broke mine yet, and I don't think I ever will.
    The factory 340 discs I bought from the local dealer don't last very long, so buy several,lol. Mostly the springspockets break spitting out the springs and then I get vibration.
    I run an aluminum bell,but I wouldn't recommend that you do.
    The CF PP has been a good unit for me. It currently has over 80,000 miles on it. Sometimes the flyweights stick when just cruising around,causing vibration. I just clutch it and blip the throttle and away we go.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
  13. BudW

    BudW Well-Known Member

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    This kinda is derailing the thread a bit – but it does come back to what AJ is talking about.

    I have a NV4500 5-speed (top-loader) in my ‘97 ¾ ton 2*4 diesel pickup (which transmission weights roughly 350 pounds).
    Has 3.55 gears in Dana 80 my and slightly taller tires than what came factory. First gear is a granny (not used much) – so, it is more or less a 4-speed w/overdrive.
    When driving at highway speeds, I keep trying to shift it in the next gear (which it doesn’t have).

    Dodge makes a 6-speed (NV5600 (which weighs about 600 pounds), and other 6-speeds) for this vehicle – but what they don’t tell you is first gear and top gear are basically the same ratios, between the different versions. They just added one more additional gear to shift into, before getting into top gear (which a diesel loaded down, needs that extra gear to keep engine in its power band).

    AJ has done the math – but in the case of my diesel – it REDLINES at 3,000 RPM (note: the governor kicks in at 2,800 RPM and unless going downhill and engine braking, I can’t get it to 3,000 RPM).
    The engine starts to make some power at 1,800 RPM and usable power is about 2,000-2,600 RPM. In this case, I upshift at ~2.7/2.8k RPM, which brings tach down to about ~1.9/2.0k RPM. There is not a whole lot room there to play with.

    I have been considering getting a Gear Venders unit for my truck – or find some different differential gears. Dodge only used 3.55 and 4.10 gears for Dana 80’s. Ford or GM (not sure which, if not both) used 3.73 and 3.07 gears

    Aftermarket, I can find 3.45, 3.31, 3.27, 2.87 and 2.73. 3.27’s might be idea gears for me – but then I run into another problem. Gears cost about $600 (US), not counting bearings (I have 260k miles on existing bearings) and I want to add a limited slip differential (another $600+), plus tools (I don’t have any Dana 80 tools, yet) – it can easily cost me 1,500-2,000 dollars (US) real quick.

    A new Gear Venders unit (for NV4500 2*4) is over $3,000 (US).
    I found a used one on eBay for over $1400 - and it is incomplete. Getting the missing parts and the driveshaft work – could cost me around $2,000 (US).

    I just can’t make myself spend $2,000 or more, for a little better gas mileage. The time for payback, might never come.


    Note: it would be easier to tip over one of today’s cars on its side, than to pick up a Dana 80 assembly (they are heavy).
    Also the transmission slip yoke makes the 727/833 slip yoke look puny. There is about two to three times more metal in the NV4500/47RH slip yoke vs. the 727 one.
    BudW
     
  14. AJ/FormS

    AJ/FormS Well-Known Member

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    I did the math on those NVs once, and I saw right away what you're talking about.
    I saw something like that many years ago in 4-speed grain truck transmissions. First was a granny, not even synchronized,to get around the soft field with. The 2nd an 3rd were close together to get the heavy load moving, and run it up to the elevator. ( back in those days, elevators were about every 12 miles apart) and then a direct fourth to hi-ball it home with.
    In the same box, you could get several different ratio sets, with at least 2 different ratio grannys.One for soft ground and the other not.
    Pretty specialized for the 70s.
     
  15. 4speedjim

    4speedjim Well-Known Member

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    Well, since Ive got alum. cases I might as well get one to the machine shop. Thats an easy one! Weather or not its wallowed? right?! wallowed out. Ill take the worse of the two cases for starters. Glad I can keep the alum. cases! im not building an 8500 rpm drag motor. The bottom end will be forged with ARP's, but the cam & valve train will be will be done around 6-6500. Its a torque street motor.
    We havent had a machine shop around in 25+ years. I stopped at Napa today and an old timer machinist been going around buying up all the old bore head and mill machinery and recently opened up. Im bringing my crank up Monday to be turned down for the 400 and she said she would do the offset grind for set up time. My fingers are crossed but, my A-H is puckered! Might need a certain hole bored out to squeek a fart out before this is done. Hope Im not the learning curve.
    So 450 or 470? I like the idea of lighter reciprocating weight of the 470 FWIW. Planning on the $1000 stealth heads. Cranks going in Monday and I believe there is no lead time, since he is less that a yr in bus. Im still open to advice and change. And which rod length do you guys like? I know this r/s ratio war will never end. But I want your advice and opinions please.
    CAM. Im leaning twards a thumper type roller. Prefer Hyd but everything is still on the table.
    Pistons. Thinking 10.5 KBs for $400 or Icon for $600. We have 93 pump gas everywhere, 94 if you can find a Sunoco. Or is 10.5 cr too much/risk of detonation with the lower rpm I will be in? Or is 9.5 CR a better option with sim. power? Rods are gonna be GM If I go 470 so it looks like I need .990 pin pistons for the 470. .100 over (4.350) flat top chevy pistons? Or will I never get the right pin/piston CD?
    Hey Bud, wont a 618 bolt up to a BB? Just a thought for you. I found new B and C body 23 spline 2.66 - 1:1 gear sets and shafts on Ebay for $499 - $599 depending on seller. I just cant drive that thing an hour and a half each way turning 3500 or whatever 3.73s and 28" tires turns at 80-85. Can I stuff 30" tire under it? The 28"s are not long for this world. Was thinking traction would be the relief valve to keep the driveline together. Or should I use a weak rear u joint and hoop? Im half waiting on Passon for their OD gear sets. Thought I saw a set for $1200, but they said its $2000 and not available. It's ok, It will give me enough time to get the money for the cam and heads together.
    So let me know what you think and suggest. Its still a clean sheet, and with all the experience and knowledge you guys bring I should honor you guys on the intake or air cleaner like on the supercar engines. Designed by BudW AJ/forms DCAspen and Joe12459. Because you guys and more always come to the rescue and I respect everything you guys say.
     
  16. BudW

    BudW Well-Known Member

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    I will answer in detail on Monday.

    I purchased 2 stroker crankshaft kits and 2 pair (4) stealth heads from 440Source.

    Personally – I wouldn’t grind an old crankshaft down to offset pins – but – On same note, it can be done.
    Sense pistons and rods would also be needed – the entire kit made more sense to me.
    I’ll get more details on Monday – for heading out of town in a few minutes.
    BudW
     
  17. 4speedjim

    4speedjim Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Bud! Safe travels and Im looking fwd to hear from you Monday.
     
  18. BudW

    BudW Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Oklahoma City
    I have two 400 blocks. One is an NOS ’78 400 and other is a used ’73 400.

    My plan is to drive cars every day. My goal was not for max horsepower, but tons of low end torque and max RPM of (or slightly higher than) 5500 RPM. Also a car(s) my wife can drive without any complaint(s). I know from the start that fuel mileage is tossed way out the window. I’m not looking for a street missile or even a sleeper, per say. Both will end up with 4-bbl appearing fuel injection, but not sure if right away, or not.

    Car(s) might be taken to the drag strip maybe once after engine install – but a good chance of taken road racing a few times.

    With those goals, with a lot of research and speaking to the local racers about stroker crankshafts (not Mopar, per se) a few years ago, I came to the conclusion that the connecting rod length vs. stroke ratio is a very big issue for longtivity.

    The recommended rod to stroke ratio numbers, I have forgotten (sorry).
    The number that fit best for a low deck big block (383 or 400) that I could find, came from 440 Source: 400>>470 (1.66 rod to stroke ratio). Also, that kit also had 0.010” over piston option – which is what I got.

    I took my used 400 block to local machine shop to get bored out. At first they said 0.010" was what I needed - so I ordered the non-returnable parts. Later I was told the 0.010" won't work and it will need 0.020” over pistons – sigh.

    I then went ordered some custom pistons for both engines, standard bore pistons for the NOS engine (I see no reason to bore a brand new engine out – if I want to keep it for a long time) and some 0.020” ones for the used engine. Then, I got the new pistons moly coated (on sides) and ceramic coated (tops).

    Once all of that was done, I gave a 0.020” piston to machine shop to get that engine machined. A Month later, that shop closed its doors and was vacated – so not sure where my block is at (another sigh).
    So not only did machine shop tell me it will only take a 0.010” bore – then told me not after I got pistons, but also left me without a block. I would say I’m not going back there, but that’s a given at this point.

    If your engine will take a 0.010” bore – I have two brand new sets of 440 Source pistons/rings that I can give you (plus freight).

    My used engine (if I can get it back - or a replacement) specs once built:
    Bore 4.360”
    Stroke 3.915”
    Deck Height 9.98”
    Connecting Rod length 6.535” (big block Chevy rods 2.2”)
    Compression Height 1.483” (not yet measured)
    Stealth Head chamber 80cc (not yet measured)
    Piston Dish (valve reliefs on custom pistons) 17cc (not yet measured)
    Piston top to deck 0.0045” (not yet measured)
    Top ring volume 1.15cc
    Head Gasket volume 12.59cc (TBD once everything else is measured).
    Deck Volume 1.1cc (not yet measured)

    Total Volume 1060.92cc
    Displacement Volume 949.08cc
    Compressed Volume 111.84cc

    Displacement 467.61 ci
    Compression ratio 9.48052:1 (using aluminum heads)

    My plans is to use C-body HP exhaust manifolds for noise control (I want car to be quiet – for long trip usage), A/C, P/B and cruise control.

    Camshaft is about the only thing I’ve not figured out, yet. Strokers will need a bigger camshaft just because you have more inches to feed. A Big cam for a 440 may end up a mild cam for stroker.

    My 5th Ave will use a 727. My wagon will be either a 5-speed or 6-speed manual (so with one or two OD gears).

    Both engines will be built at same time – after I figure out what to do about my missing block.

    I do have plans on replacing the stealth head valve hardware and I do have plans on using beehive springs, along with stock rocker arms.
    Blue engine paint to finish them off.
    BudW