Utter defeat....why, why, why?

[M_Body_Coupe]

So I'm stumped (at the moment) by this outcome: went to drop the newly finished W2 stroker motor into the coupe...tried no less than three separate times, each time I have the converter hub hanging up on the crank (meaning the block seems to lack clearance for the converter and crank to mesh nicely).

The weird part is that each one of these three attemps (actually more, I think we tried about 4-5 different setups) I moved and tilted the motor to try to avoid the obstacle, but of course trying to pull the motor up to the front just caused the engine mounts to completely MISS the mounting brackets!!!

Complete frustration as I am missing about 0.25" of room to make this thing click together!!!

OK, so what's different this time?

Well, I am using the Energy Suspension POLY engine mount inserts...and yeah, they are thicker, sure enough about 0.25" thicker than the factory mounts. But for that to be my major problem it seems rather silly. However, right now it seems like the key culprit since the inserts have a fairly sizeable cap/pad that captures the steel frame of the mount and of course these need to be somewhat compressed when the whole setup wiggles into the factory engine mount bracket in the frame.

Has anyone experienced a problem installing these?

I actually contemplated freeing up the transmission (by unbolting the supporting cross-member bracket and letting it drop), but it honestly shouldn't be this difficult to get this done.

Will try this again tomorrow, this time I'll toss my engine leveler setup (as opposed to just a straight hook mated up to an intake mounted engine lift plate). Maybe this will give me enough adjustability to somehow get the rigth tilt and free up the room I need.

As always, looking for ALL suggestions you guys have on what other things to check and look into...this literally has turned out to be the biggest challenge and was something I completely did NOT expect to encounter.

 

[XfbodyX]

If Im reading correctly Id suggest pulling the motor mounts off the block until you have all in place then slip in the mounts and bolt all together after you have the trans attached.

For me ive learned over the years and have blown some ford guys minds (who tried for a full weekend to get a motor in only to watch me remove the mounts untill all is in place and do in 1/2 hour what they tried for two full days) that not putting the mounts on or the very least maybe just two of the three and very loose makes things much easier.

 

[Aspen500]

Sometimes it just takes a fresh try. At work, a number of times, I remember fighting and wrestling trying to get an engine to line up and drop in for an hour. Then go to lunch, and afterwards poof, almost falls together by itself.

 

[Mikes5thAve]

Did the converter slip out the notch?
If the mounts are hard to seat yeah I'd try doing it with them off too to try to clear that obstacle.
I think i would he tempted to unbolt the cross member. It's easier to fight the transmission in place and lined up then the engine and not noticeable too if you happen to scratch something up in the process of getting it in.

 

[M_Body_Coupe]

XfbodyX: hmm, well that will probably be an option I'll try today. My son suggested that yesterday, but with the big TTI headers in there it seemed awfully tight to be able to get at practially anything once the thing drops in place!

Aspen500: yup, we eventually stopped because I kept on repeating in my head: "it's only geometry" and it felt like I needed to de-tune by stepping away. Another day today, it's looking a bit rainy, but hopefully we're not dealing with a thunderstorm. I need the garage door up to make room and need the car to be pushed out a tad.

Mikes5thAve: nah, that was literally the first thing I went after. I had this prepped before starting the process, but there is always the chance that something may have slipped, etc...so after we pulled the motor the last time I got in there and confirmed that the converter does fully engage...moving it out and back in produces a good metal "clunk", while rotating it back and forth seems to click a little as if the hub grab onto the transmission pump.

I remembered Duke's suggestion earlier on to strip a bit of the K-frame lip to clear my Milodon 8 qt pan (the style with the wider base that narrows down towards the engine), which I did because on the 1st try sure enough we got stuck on that. It is still pretty tight but I don't want to cut off any more as what remains is the lip where the spot-welds are located.

Alright...more to come I'm sure, hoping that the engine leveler makes enough of a difference to overcome this. If that fails my 2nd plan is to switch to the factory engine mounts (I have two sets - just in case LOL), as those should clear. I was worried that with the power of this motor I would risk tearing up the factory rubber, but those mounts were brand new OEM pieces, so the rubber is in great shape (no rips, etc.).

Thanks for all the suggestions guys!

...Mike, happy Canada Day to you sir, and Happy 4th of July to all my American buddies!

 

[LSM360]

The only thing that came to mind for me was also the converter moving. Well dang, sorry to hear you're having issues and hope you get it resolved soon!

 

[Oldiron440]

Is it a new converter, I bought a new converter once and upon installing it realized that the front hub was a 3/8” longer than stock.
I had spent Friday night and Saturday trying to install the engine, I was so pissed off I ordered a new Turbo Action and literally threw the first part in the dumpster…

 

[Aspen500]

Think it was on Roadkill Garage where they had the same problem during an engine and trans swap. Hub on the new converter was longer than the crank bore was deep. They solved it by using a different converter so, it happens.

If you don't find something else, check the measurements. I'm only assuming a new stroker crank and/or new converter though.

Could be worse. Could be a Ford where in addition to everything else, you also have to line the converter studs up with the holes in the flexplate before it'll go together.

 

[M_Body_Coupe]

Well you guys, I can almost say "mission accomplished"!!!

I say "almost" because I haven't quite gotten through all the stuff that needs to be re-installed during this kind of a swap, but the most important stuff is now done...that being: the new motor is in, converter hub and crank pilot do engage correctly, but man, getting there took nearly all I had!

So those of you who suggested that converter may be at fault are probably correct, I say probably because the FSM calls for min 1/2" clearance between the transmission face and the factory converter during the installation. Sure enough the converter I have (custom Dynamic 9.5" 4K stall) does have that between the transmission mounting face and the converter lugs BUT the hub is missing...ohhh....you know...tiny little amount: 0.25"!!!

Yeah, that thing is too tall in a sense. Mind you, at 0.675" it is just a hair shorter than the depth of the crank pilot, so no problem having the two engage, but attempting to install the motor by dropping it in (like I tried) wasn't going to happen w/o something else getting shifted first to free up the room.

Therefore, to make this happen I did the following:

1) switched to the factory (rubber) engine mounts, which gave me a little room, but still found the crank handing up on the converter hub

GRRHHH

2) crawled under the car (you know how it is DIY, no freaking room anywhere lol), started to undo the support and than thought to myself: I just want to PUSH BACK the trans a little...we are talking like that magic 0.25" amount...so instead of dropping the whole assembly I simply removed the trans mount bolt and let that slide OUT and BACK of the support bracket...

3) now we tried against to drop the motor in, engine mounts slid right in (the POLY stuff would have been just fine I suspect, but I was in no mood, or shape for that matter to undo it all and switch out to those engine mounts), the engine leveler helped, I tilted the rascal a tad and slowly worked the trans case against the engine block until they clicked together!!!

What a relief you guys...and it only took two days of frustration...who doesn't dig THAT???!!!!

I tell ya though: no desire to do this ever again!

 

[Mikes5thAve]

Glad it's done!
And a late happy Canada Day to you too!

 

[DCAspen]

I’m sure you’ll sleep good tonight

 

[Aspen500]

Good deal!

 

[M_Body_Coupe]

So one last update (as far as this 'chapter' is concerned): I had ran into an issue mating up the converter to the flexplate. The converter would NOT pull up directly to the flexplate and would leave me with about 0.065" room between the converter lugs and the flexplate itself.

I started a thread on Mopars regarding this figuring I would have a much larger group of folks on that site who may have ran into this while dealing with multiple combinations of engine/converter/transmission.

For what it's worth I am going to install the remaining engine to transmission housing bolts (only have three left so I doubt this will make much of a difference, but need to rule this out) and "live" with the results.