Who Really Won The Wars?

Jack Meoff

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It's funny how times change isn't it?
I look at my work parking lot and what do I see?

Germany, Japan and Korea.

Interesting.....I'm calling a long term win for all three judging by how much money we give them.

Just my thought for the day.

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Darth-Car

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You are starting me on a slow burn Captain.:icon_cherry:
 

kkritsilas

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Nobody ever went to war against South Korea (aside from North Korea), but then again, there has not been a formal peace treaty with North Korea, either.

All of the "Industrial Miracles" from the former Axis powers stem from the Marshall Plan, adoption of Quality improvement processes originally devised in the U.S., and a willingness to work hard. Much of the working hard part seems to have departed from North America. It's much easier to shuffle money around to "create wealth".
 

Dr Lebaron

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How about the pencil necks who get up in the morning, toss on the Hugo Boss suit, jumps in the BMW or Mercedes......to go to the Remembrance Day ceremony.

And try to tell me this doesn't happen.

All the goofs who went out and bought Chinese junk and now there is no longer a North American equivalent.
I am very 'country of origin' conscious and always been.
 

Jack Meoff

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Nobody ever went to war against South Korea (aside from North Korea), but then again, there has not been a formal peace treaty with North Korea, either.

All of the "Industrial Miracles" from the former Axis powers stem from the Marshall Plan, adoption of Quality improvement processes originally devised in the U.S., and a willingness to work hard. Much of the working hard part seems to have departed from North America. It's much easier to shuffle money around to "create wealth".

Keep in mind that with the exception of maybe Germany the basic idea is pay the workers close to nothing and the company pockets the real money.

How about the pencil necks who get up in the morning, toss on the Hugo Boss suit, jumps in the BMW or Mercedes......to go to the Remembrance Day ceremony.

And try to tell me this doesn't happen.

All the goofs who went out and bought Chinese junk and now there is no longer a North American equivalent.
I am very 'country of origin' conscious and always been.

That's true isn't it?
Kind of a kick in the teeth showing up to a Rememberence Day ceremony driving a car made by the country that you were fighting with. I understand times are different and all but looking out at the parking lots.....it just struck me as sort of ironic.
 

Dr Lebaron

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That's true isn't it?
Kind of a kick in the teeth showing up to a Rememberence Day ceremony driving a car made by the country that you were fighting with. I understand times are different and all but looking out at the parking lots.....it just struck me as sort of ironic.

Even better when it's a young rich Goya doing it.
His education came from 'where'?
 

BHA43

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At the union hall by the Firestone plant in Des Moines when I lived there. Was a big sign at the gate "No foreign cars or tires allowed in lot" don't know if it's still there prop. not I don't even think it is Firestone any more.
 

Jack Meoff

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The only reason there's a Scamry in my stable is cause it was free.....and it takes the Volare out of harms way as my wife's daily driver. They can smack into that jap scrap all they like.
 

Mcfly68

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The german cars suck....horrid to work on. expensive to work on ( just did a did a clutch in an audi s4...10 hrs and $3000)..the Japanese and S Korean cars are actually quite good....the North American stuff is slowly coming up to the same standard. I work on all brands now, but came from Hyundai and Mazda dealerships ( actually a Mazda master tech) and I can honestly say NA stuff is garbage up to at least 2012, with Dodge being some of the worst ( hate to say it , but true...2010 dodge and jeeps with rotted out front frames, rebuilding suspensions every year, rattles galore...the dodges I have owned have all had multiple major warranty claims)...my 08 sante fe had 2 warranty claims in 100,000 kms...timing chain tensioners and a sway bar end link...and still had the original brakes when I traded it...my 13 Mazda ( actually a 12) has had 1 for a door seal...have only ever done one Hyundai engine due to neglect, and only a hand full of mazda engines due to neglect ( mostly rotaries because people dont understand them and their unique requirements, and people dont know how to work on them).. I can honestly say over 90% of major repairs on hyundai and mazda's are from neglect/lack of maintenance or a ford derived component in mazda's ( cx9 and tribute transfer cases, 13 hr warranty time water pumps on duratech engines etc). NA stuff is finally getting better, but 10 years behind asian stuff for quality
 

Dr Lebaron

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When I call an ambulance, I ask for a Dodge.
When I need a flatbed to move another Mopar purchase, I use only Dodge trucks.
In a long line of taxis, I'll P/O the other drivers and get into the Mopar.
I haven't had an off brand park in my driveway in 17 yrs. Not allowed!

.
 

kkritsilas

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Keep in mind that with the exception of maybe Germany the basic idea is pay the workers close to nothing and the company pockets the real money.

....

Cap'n, a small correction if I may:

"...and the company pockets the real money. "

Usually, the upper management, CEOs, chairmen of the Board, Board of Governors, and on occasion, shareholders pocket the real money in the form of bonuses and stock options. The vast majority of people in the company don't get anything.

I used to work at the now defunct Nortel. CEO and top executives cooked the books, not to deceive investors (although that happened as a by product), but in order to ensure that they got their bonuses; a matter of public record (court cases in Canada and the U.S.). CEOs are now getting bonuses for eliminating jobs and cutting benefits and wages. In the 1950s and 1960s, companies were very, very reluctant to cut jobs; now, it is the first thing that happens when there is any sign of trouble.

Kostas
 

Darth-Car

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The real interesting thing is that TQI (Total Quality Initiatives) were invented in the US in the 50's by a group of concerned industry leaders. They mediately pitched the ideas to the American Auto Industry. They were sure this group would jump at their revolutionary ideas that would ensure customer / employee satisfaction for years to come. Instead the US auto industry snubbed the group saying that their old ways were best.

The industry leaders took their TQI plans to Japan where the economy was struggling to recover from the devastation of the war. Their companies were eager to adopt modern American manufacturing processes.

The other thing that helped the asians is the fact that they are tremendous reverse engineering folks. They have so many engineers that they can devote entire teams to disassemble a product, and learn how it works. Then the same team takes this knowledge and makes something better.

The asians also focus on the manufacturing process. They do not focus on destroying their own manufacturing engine as we do in the West. Here companies are considered evil, and should be destroyed by lawyers. In asia they graduate 30 engineers for every lawyer. In the US we graduate 30 lawyers for every engineer. This was a figure from 15 years ago, it is probably worse now.
 

Master M

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I have always supported an automaker that is headquartered in the USA. I am still not convinced that a company like Toyota that puts cars together in the USA is not sending a large part of the money from their cars sold here back to Japan where they employ tens of thousands of workers. Even if a car is not considered as good as another, why would you not support the country in where you live. JMHO...
 

Master M

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Hey Capt. I really like that silver car looming in the background. It will outlast any of those plasto buggies, and is a helluva lot easier and less expensive to upkeep and repair. Besides, that is really 4 ugly cars together.
 

Jack Meoff

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Hey Capt. I really like that silver car looming in the background. It will outlast any of those plasto buggies, and is a helluva lot easier and less expensive to upkeep and repair. Besides, that is really 4 ugly cars together.

I do too.

Okay......I've let this thread ride to see what would happen.
I figured it might go this way.....yes I've heard all about how great these imports are and how lousy our North American counterparts are. I also know that to a point our cars have gone to shit. The whole Chrysler Intrapment and entire LX platform was a disaster and the Benz era of Chrysler was not a high point....... I won't even get into the GM and Ford disasters of the same time. However things have seemed to get much better across the board.

Now.....a couple of points.

Has it ever dawned on anyone that after basically talking all the money that could have gone into our industry and giving it to Japan and Korea we basically strangled our own to death?

Yes....the bean counters and CEO'shad a big hand in it but how many times have our big three been in financial trouble and all while every driveway in North America has a Hyondayotissanwagon parked in it? That's a combination of the big three dropping the ball on various occasions and the public now being so brainwashed that they automatically assume that an import must be better. Even if it's not the case now. Generally I'd say almost every new car is close to the same playing field these days. Especially if you keep in mind that almost everyone dumps their ride for a new one inside of five years.

As far as my old rides. .....

My Fifth is 28 years old. Lives in Canada and has very little rust. Has almost 400,000 kilometers on it. Is almost all stock. Runs like a dream and has never let me down.

Find me one of these glorious imports that's 28 years old.
Not likely. My Volare is 35 years old and can make the same claims as my Fifth. Any 35 year old imports rolling around these days? My Caravelle is 37 years old. Any takers? Didn't think so.

I myself will never give some foreign country my money for a car. I won't even buy a used one. As far as new cars....I won't even bother. Why would I? I can pick up a beautiful old Chrysler with a style from when cars actually had style. Fix it in a parking lot for a minute fraction of what it would cost for just the parts on a new car let alone the labour.

I've heard all the arguments and while I watch people fork out insane amounts of money on disposable garbage I happily drive around in my three beautiful cars that collectively have cost me half of what a shitbox yaris would cost.

This thread was just an observation in irony.
However in real day to day life it is irrelevant to me.
I'm more than happy driving cars not vehicles as they're called today.
 
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