AJ/FormS
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That's a great combo with 9.8 Scr. and will love that A230 and 3.55s
350 Hp 318?
- Thread starter Rifleshooter
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Rifleshooter
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See the problem is, I already have the 833od trans for my f body, and those things are a bitch and a half to even find let alone for a good price, that being said no matter what that's the trans I'm using, as for the rear gear, I currently have a 7 1/4 rear with a 2 76 gear, that part is up in the air still, and the 318 is a major preference as my friend is getting one for me for dirt cheap.
brotherGood
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The 833 swap is pretty intricate from what I understand.
If you want to keep a 7.25 in the car, you're throwing money away. They will not withstand even a decently built 318, unless you drive it very conservatively, but then why bother with putting another engine in.
Go with at least an 8.25, and you can get solid power out of the 318. Like I said, that's what I've got and it's a blast.
Rifleshooter
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I kinda figured a 8 1/4 rear would be the most practical but I'm definately not keeping the 7 1/4 in. As for what gear I put in the rear, that's what's entirely up in the air, was thinking going with a 3.55. Not sure whatd be best though.
AJ/FormS
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Ok that's a problem. Throwing stuff together ends up getting expensive in the end, cuz, well, you're just throwing stuff together
But I think I get it; you're on an impossibly low budget..
In which case; DO NOT put a cam in that teener. Just hook it up to either trans and run whatever rear gear that you already have. Throw some bolt-ons at it as you like, just don't expect miracles. With a 4bbl and hi-flo exhaust you'll already be about doubling the power of that tired slanty.
Then for a city car put some 3.91s in it and have big fun.
For a dual-purpose car,3.55s.
I don't like to paint the 7.25 with the ugly brush. They do pretty good,and better with a SureGrip. Peg-legging, and shocking them,is what kills them. I even ran one behind a 340 for about 2 years. The 904 went first.
But I think I get it; you're on an impossibly low budget..
In which case; DO NOT put a cam in that teener. Just hook it up to either trans and run whatever rear gear that you already have. Throw some bolt-ons at it as you like, just don't expect miracles. With a 4bbl and hi-flo exhaust you'll already be about doubling the power of that tired slanty.
Then for a city car put some 3.91s in it and have big fun.
For a dual-purpose car,3.55s.
I don't like to paint the 7.25 with the ugly brush. They do pretty good,and better with a SureGrip. Peg-legging, and shocking them,is what kills them. I even ran one behind a 340 for about 2 years. The 904 went first.
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This is the “missing” fact that allowed us to get a bit sidetracked (somewhat).
I’m not picking on you – for I have asked questions without presenting all of the facts, myself.
For a stock 318 or 360 or even a mildly built 318 – the 7¼” will work . . . for a while – as long as you don’t let your clutch foot slip off of the clutch petal at a high RPM, too many times.
It wouldn’t take much (ie: floorboard work) to get the A833 installed now.
If going with a stock 318 2-bbl – that will be a fun and usable combo. Maybe slightly more fun with a 2.94 or a 3.23 gears (or lower).
My ’77 wagon, with 3.23’s in it, a 904 (not 998 or 999) and 318 2-bbl, is rather fun to drive as is. Any more power and I wouldn’t get any traction (right at that limit - with current tires). It will hole shot most cars out there, as is – at least until I get to end of the intersection/stop light (when the engine runs out of steam).
With that said, I have no plans to modify my existing 318 2-bbl – for if I do, I will lose a lot of the fun factor it currently gives.
What will happen is to swap the low end power for mid/high end power – which without doing a whole lot more work won’t do much (you can only blow so much air through a soda straw). Overall, the car would be less fun to drive.
I would need to work in the compression ratio, camshaft, cylinder heads, intake and exhaust - as a working combination to get more of what I want – and if I was going to do that, I might as well use a 360 with a stroker crankshaft (or precisely in my case, just drop in a stroker big block).
BudW
AJ/FormS
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Spot-on,Bud
Rifleshooter
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Ok well what kinds of stuff can I bolt onto a 318 and get some pretty decent hp and torque, more than the stock
Adding a 4-bbl (and better exhaust?) on top of an stock 318 2-bbl engine might be as far as I would go on a stock 318 2-bbl – without having a detailed and workable plan, first (ie: this is where things start to get expensive).
If nothing else – you will at least have working and fun car until funds allow you to explore other options with the stock 318.
BudW
Edit:
I can’t comment on forced air induction (no experience with that) – but that will require some expense and/or fabrication, first.
If keeping car naturally aspirating, then what I said, above, applies.
Forced air induction (turbo or supercharger) may get you where you want to go without a lot of coin – but I’ll let someone else comment more on that.
If nothing else – you will at least have working and fun car until funds allow you to explore other options with the stock 318.
BudW
Edit:
I can’t comment on forced air induction (no experience with that) – but that will require some expense and/or fabrication, first.
If keeping car naturally aspirating, then what I said, above, applies.
Forced air induction (turbo or supercharger) may get you where you want to go without a lot of coin – but I’ll let someone else comment more on that.
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AJ/FormS
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OP
Back in post #1, you asked what it would take to make 350hp.
The answer is; a lotta money.
But it doesn't stop with the engine. Now you need a HD clutch, a HD rearend,big go-fast tires, and HD brakes,suspension and steering. All this is to support the go-fast engine. Going fast leads to having to stop fast or steer fast.
So even tho the 350hp teener might only cost 5 or 6 Gs ready to go, you're looking at another 2 or 3Gs in support works.
IMO, it would be far better and cheaper to just slam a junkyard 360 in there now, and run it with the parts you already have, plus a SG. Either trans has a deep enough low gear to get BOTH tires going,even with the 2.76 gears.That's just what 360s do. Again NO cam!
Back in post #1, you asked what it would take to make 350hp.
The answer is; a lotta money.
But it doesn't stop with the engine. Now you need a HD clutch, a HD rearend,big go-fast tires, and HD brakes,suspension and steering. All this is to support the go-fast engine. Going fast leads to having to stop fast or steer fast.
So even tho the 350hp teener might only cost 5 or 6 Gs ready to go, you're looking at another 2 or 3Gs in support works.
IMO, it would be far better and cheaper to just slam a junkyard 360 in there now, and run it with the parts you already have, plus a SG. Either trans has a deep enough low gear to get BOTH tires going,even with the 2.76 gears.That's just what 360s do. Again NO cam!
Rifleshooter
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AJ please stop trying to convince me of putting a 360 in, not gonna work haha. Aside from that, I'd prefer not to boost the 318 as I know it'll require custom fabrication and such and I don't really want to have to deal with all that. Plus, just like bud, I know little to nothing about boosting and don't want to risk overdoing it and making everything worse.
That being said I already intended on putting a 4bbl carb on and headers. But what else can I do to get to that 350 hp goal. And would it be easier to get 300?
That being said I already intended on putting a 4bbl carb on and headers. But what else can I do to get to that 350 hp goal. And would it be easier to get 300?
AJ/FormS
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You can't get there with a 318,on as tight a budget as you seem to have, and still have a driveable car.
You can put a cam in there and make 250/280, BUT you will have that power up around 5500rpm. But at idle to 2500rpm you will have less power than you do now.So much less that when you hit second gear, you will be crying great big tears of disappointment, cuz your old slanty will have about the same power in that range.
The problem is that the stock teener has a hard time making 8/1 compression. It runs not bad with the factory cam, but any performance cam you put in there, will just drop the effective compression ratio, and that very quickly spoils the low-rpm power output.
To make a teener GO with a bigger cam means the compression has to come along; and the bigger the cam the more compression it needs, and very soon you run out of head flow.
To get to that 350hp will require a complete rebuild with new pistons to match the cam, to match the heads,plus all the other bits.And if you go to that expense, it makes no sense to do it to a 318. It will actually be cheaper to build the 360, using the same Hi-perf heads and cam, and you end up with a solid 40hp more in the 360, that's just the way it is.And the 360 will have gobs and gobs more power, right from idle.
If you're married to the teener,do yourself a favor, stop thinking about how much power it will make. It really doesn't matter with a street driven car. Just put in in there with a 4bbl and hi-flo exhaust, and go have some fun.
Why doesn't it matter? cuz from zero to 60 there is so little difference in time to get there with any sized SBM, it becomes hard to measure.If you throw some TM(TorqueMultiplication) at the little teener, it might even beat a bigger SBM, that runs less gear.
Where a 360 shines, is it doesn't need all that TM.And so it can cruise the hiway at waaay less rpm, and get better fuel-economy, and last thousands of miles longer.
Your 318 with the od trans will want 3.91s, to hit 60@5000 in second gear. Sorry about first gear running out at 32 mph, that's just the way it is with that box.
You can put a cam in there and make 250/280, BUT you will have that power up around 5500rpm. But at idle to 2500rpm you will have less power than you do now.So much less that when you hit second gear, you will be crying great big tears of disappointment, cuz your old slanty will have about the same power in that range.
The problem is that the stock teener has a hard time making 8/1 compression. It runs not bad with the factory cam, but any performance cam you put in there, will just drop the effective compression ratio, and that very quickly spoils the low-rpm power output.
To make a teener GO with a bigger cam means the compression has to come along; and the bigger the cam the more compression it needs, and very soon you run out of head flow.
To get to that 350hp will require a complete rebuild with new pistons to match the cam, to match the heads,plus all the other bits.And if you go to that expense, it makes no sense to do it to a 318. It will actually be cheaper to build the 360, using the same Hi-perf heads and cam, and you end up with a solid 40hp more in the 360, that's just the way it is.And the 360 will have gobs and gobs more power, right from idle.
If you're married to the teener,do yourself a favor, stop thinking about how much power it will make. It really doesn't matter with a street driven car. Just put in in there with a 4bbl and hi-flo exhaust, and go have some fun.
Why doesn't it matter? cuz from zero to 60 there is so little difference in time to get there with any sized SBM, it becomes hard to measure.If you throw some TM(TorqueMultiplication) at the little teener, it might even beat a bigger SBM, that runs less gear.
Where a 360 shines, is it doesn't need all that TM.And so it can cruise the hiway at waaay less rpm, and get better fuel-economy, and last thousands of miles longer.
Your 318 with the od trans will want 3.91s, to hit 60@5000 in second gear. Sorry about first gear running out at 32 mph, that's just the way it is with that box.
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The problem with 318’s is the cylinder head port sizes.
They are small and really were not meant for engine to go more than 4 to 4.5K RPM.
Great for low end torque – but sucks trying to flow a lot of air when into the RPM’s.
The 340/360 cylinder head ports are roughly (but not quite) twice the size (in cubic inches) of a 318, as well as larger intake and exhaust valves (and manifolds).
A 318 was never designed to flow a lot of air. A 340/360 was designed to move a lot more air, from basic design
Doing any one, two or even three major things to a 318 will make different parts start to work against each other, there by defeating any gains made.
It comes back to my earlier quote: you can only blow so much air through a soda straw.
BudW
They are small and really were not meant for engine to go more than 4 to 4.5K RPM.
Great for low end torque – but sucks trying to flow a lot of air when into the RPM’s.
The 340/360 cylinder head ports are roughly (but not quite) twice the size (in cubic inches) of a 318, as well as larger intake and exhaust valves (and manifolds).
A 318 was never designed to flow a lot of air. A 340/360 was designed to move a lot more air, from basic design
Doing any one, two or even three major things to a 318 will make different parts start to work against each other, there by defeating any gains made.
It comes back to my earlier quote: you can only blow so much air through a soda straw.
BudW
Rifleshooter
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I never really said that I have a low budget, but that doesn't mean I have several grand to throw at it. I would prefer to keep it as cheap as possible and my 318 needs to still be streetable.
Edit: on top of it all, I'm in no rush to get this done as soon as possible as I already have a decent running slant in my car. I can take all the time to get it done as I need.
Edit: on top of it all, I'm in no rush to get this done as soon as possible as I already have a decent running slant in my car. I can take all the time to get it done as I need.
Rifleshooter
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When looking at getting new cylinder heads. What is the difference when the specs reference "CCs" some heads have higher cc's and some have lower, what's the difference?
AJ/FormS
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Well why didn't you say you had money?
OK let's get cooking.
Go get that 318. Take it apart. Throw everything away except the block,and the covers.
Now, go get a stroker crank kit, a set of aftermarket Magnum heads,a fast-rate-of-lift 230@.050 cam, an Airgap intake, headers and a 650DP carb, plus all the bits to connect the parts together. That should make about make 350 at 5500, and still make enough torque on the bottom to have fun with.
That will be about $7000 to $8500 assembled, Ima guessing.
Course same money on a 360. will get you an easy 100more horsepower, maybe 150,with a bit more cam.
lol. I just couldn't help myself,lol
And like I said, grab a JY360 , put a 4bbl on it and hi-flo exhaust,not even headers, and for change back from $1500 you got an easy 280hp crank, maybe more. But under 4000 or so rpm, it will be making very similar power to that mondo-expensive stroked teener. So with 3.55s that would be about 30mph.
So,basically, the teener is costing 6or7Gs to go a hair faster from 30mph to 60mph................................
OK let's get cooking.
Go get that 318. Take it apart. Throw everything away except the block,and the covers.
Now, go get a stroker crank kit, a set of aftermarket Magnum heads,a fast-rate-of-lift 230@.050 cam, an Airgap intake, headers and a 650DP carb, plus all the bits to connect the parts together. That should make about make 350 at 5500, and still make enough torque on the bottom to have fun with.
That will be about $7000 to $8500 assembled, Ima guessing.
Course same money on a 360. will get you an easy 100more horsepower, maybe 150,with a bit more cam.
lol. I just couldn't help myself,lol
And like I said, grab a JY360 , put a 4bbl on it and hi-flo exhaust,not even headers, and for change back from $1500 you got an easy 280hp crank, maybe more. But under 4000 or so rpm, it will be making very similar power to that mondo-expensive stroked teener. So with 3.55s that would be about 30mph.
So,basically, the teener is costing 6or7Gs to go a hair faster from 30mph to 60mph................................
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Rifleshooter
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Thank you!!! Maybe I shouldve mentioned that God knows how long ago huh, lmao
AJ/FormS
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You realize that that 318 with a .030 overbore and a 3.58 stroke kit is now a 349 cubes, right? Thasalottacoin for instead of a 360. And you're pretty much maxed out,cuz the 2.02 heads on the teener bores, are already somewhat shrouded.
There are other strokes available for the 318/340; like 3.79" and 4.00". These will get you 369 and 390 cubes. But over those wiener teener bores, you won't make a buncha more power. But you will get a shot of low rpm torque, allowing a lot less gear than 3.91s.Unfortunately, you'll have to spend another 3 Gs or more, to make it hook, so it won't necessarily be any quicker to 60. But it will sure spin tires. Any street tires
I'm starting to think you got money riding on a bet, you made with a buddy.
Why don't you just come clean.....
There are other strokes available for the 318/340; like 3.79" and 4.00". These will get you 369 and 390 cubes. But over those wiener teener bores, you won't make a buncha more power. But you will get a shot of low rpm torque, allowing a lot less gear than 3.91s.Unfortunately, you'll have to spend another 3 Gs or more, to make it hook, so it won't necessarily be any quicker to 60. But it will sure spin tires. Any street tires
I'm starting to think you got money riding on a bet, you made with a buddy.
Why don't you just come clean.....
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Rifleshooter
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No, I don't have an ongoing bet with anybody. What exactly does a stroker kit do and how does it effect performance?
AJ/FormS
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A stroker kit,installed, turns your 318 into a bigger engine on the inside where you can't see it. So the kits come in various sizes; like 349,369,and 390 cubic inches.
This kindof promises more torque and power; anywhere from about an additional 30hp on a basic 2bbl crank swap, to 130/150 on a 369HOcid , to maybe 150/170 on a 390HO and even more with other supporting mods.
But in all honestly, for me to do that to a 318, there would have to be no other 360s left in the world.
You do know that on the outside, a 318LA and a 360LA are practically identical, right? Once installed you'll have to know where to look to see the very minor differences.And anything that you can bolt onto a 318 can also be bolted onto a 360.The only parts that will not swap are the pistons,the crank, and the damper.
This kindof promises more torque and power; anywhere from about an additional 30hp on a basic 2bbl crank swap, to 130/150 on a 369HOcid , to maybe 150/170 on a 390HO and even more with other supporting mods.
But in all honestly, for me to do that to a 318, there would have to be no other 360s left in the world.
You do know that on the outside, a 318LA and a 360LA are practically identical, right? Once installed you'll have to know where to look to see the very minor differences.And anything that you can bolt onto a 318 can also be bolted onto a 360.The only parts that will not swap are the pistons,the crank, and the damper.
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