61 Pontiac Tempest Project

[Justwondering]

I had a failure and a success today -- no victory.

Failure -- I was unable to pick the lock. Dang it looked so easy on the internet video.

Success -- I removed the rear seat from the Tempest.

No victory -- there was a full size tire in the trunk and a nest of red hornets. I sprayed the hornets and refused to enter the trunk until tomorrow. I'll bring a blanket to lay on, a flashlight so I can see, and some box wrenches so I can 'hopefully' remove the lock or unlock it from the interior. No victory cause I didn't the the lock removed nor the trunk open.

It was 73 this morning an 76 at noon at the estate so I had several hours to work on this. Unfortunately after I got back home at 2:40 - the temps started going up and now its 97 and humid due to the thunderstorms that have been around today.

JW

 

[kkritsilas]

When I see that '61 Tempest, I am reminded that over the years GM came up with great ideas but squandered them when they cheaped out on the engineering. The Tempest came out with an all aluminum V8, 4-speed transaxle and independent rear suspension. On paper, that was great but in execution, it wasn't all that hot. It was engineering ahead of it's time. Look what GM did with the Cadillac V4-6-8 multi-displacement system in the '70's. A great idea, ahead of it's time that turned out to be a turd in execution. Now FCA and other manufacturers us it and finally got it right. I'm just old and grumbly I guess when I see opportunity wasted.

Greg

Some of that was GM's bean counters getting in the way, some of it was that the state of the possible/practical was not there at that time. The Cadillac V4-6-8 did not have the electronics that make multiple-displacement/displacement-on-demand work well. The aluminum V8 died because GM was straight out too cheap (got sold to British Motors who used it on cars like the Rover SD1 and the Triumph TR8). Same goes with the Buick V6. Forget exactly when it came out, but it was then sold off, and then bought back. The Pontiac OHC straight six was another one. It actually had good power for a straight six of the day, but it was "too expensive" to manufacture. Olds Quad 4 and the DOHC V6 of the 1990s early 2000s were killed because of the same reasoning.

The first generation of turbos, like the Ford 2.3L, the Buick V6 (even though it was actually pretty successful) would have all been much better with today's electronics. They did as well as could be expected with what they had available at the time, but the electronics today are worlds ahead of what was around in the 1980s-1990s.

 

[Oldiron440]

I just keep thinking about a 455 in the front of the little Pontiac, the little 4 makes me think of the Nash song.

 

[Aspen500]

Quad Four,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,JUNK. Over engineered, over complicated, parts made by the lowest bid vendor POS's. JMO I remember back when at the Ford dealer, it got to a point where if a car got traded in with a Quad Four, it went straight to auction. They were costing too much with the used car warranty when they came back within a month with a cracked head, slipped timing chain, leaky water pump or any other number of problems. Bean counters ruin it all for all makes of cars. Good ideas, but underfunded and then they cheap out on the parts, which all leads to lots of failures. By the time they get all the problems worked out, it's too late. The vehicles have such a bad reputation nobody will buy them anymore. But I digress........

I was sort of looking around a little and parts for the '61-'63 Tempest seem even harder to find than F-body parts.

 

[barbee6043]

Mopars were generally over engineered and well designed. Few exceptions. Yes they came out with a "new" pant process for the F body, but.....................hopefully that idiot got fired and sent to work for GM!

 

[Camtron]

UPDATE! Parts & Project Cars & Trucks 1920's-80's 100's of Cars
I’ve used this guy for an Mbody bumper after I got rear ended. He has a little bit of everything and updates inventory regularly. He’s located in Kansas and ships

 

[Oldiron440]

Concittering the Tempest is twenty five years older than the Fbody and just as much a throwaway car as the Fbody its suprising when you find one intact after almost 60 years.

 

[Oldiron440]

My second cousin had a nice 61, a dark maroon metallic in the early 60s. It was his first car and soon after he had a 64 GP 66GTO 2 70 GTOs the ram air ? 72 Firebird TA and after that I lost track. But it all started with a little 61 Tempest. Back then he and his dad would ge something new and the first thing they would do is take it out on the black top and see how fast they would go. His dad drove new Pontiacs also.

 

[Aspen500]

UPDATE! Parts & Project Cars & Trucks 1920's-80's 100's of Cars
I’ve used this guy for an Mbody bumper after I got rear ended. He has a little bit of everything and updates inventory regularly. He’s located in Kansas and ships

I've seen his ads on the local CL here. Even if he had nothing I needed, I could spend an entire day just wandering around that place looking at the cars.

 

[Camtron]

I've seen his ads on the local CL here. Even if he had nothing I needed, I could spend an entire day just wandering around that place looking at the cars.

I couldn’t agree more. I’ve never actually seen a yard like this in person. It’d be a fun way to spend an afternoon

 

[Aspen500]

There used to be a couple of the car guy type yards around here with older stuff from the '40's through the '70's or early '80's but they're all long gone now. The ones that are left are mostly late model yards and finding anything made in the last century in any of them is very rare. Of course, vehicles don't last nearly as long here as they do in, for example, Kansas. The TYPICAL vehicle built before roughly 2005 here is a rust bucket on it's last legs before it collapses in a heap of iron oxide. Some have been scrapped due to rust that were built in the current decade already. Sucks.

 

[Oldiron440]

I find that interesting because the average vehicle on the road is 11 years old according to the people who keep track of such things.

 

[Oldiron440]

Another thing that I find interesting is the thirty something moms driving SUVs that are 60k plus, where the hell do they get the money? I got an offer from Ford to lease me a new Expedition for $880 per month, just a minute I'll take two....

 

[Aspen500]

I find that interesting because the average vehicle on the road is 11 years old according to the people who keep track of such things.

States like Wisconsin (and Minnesota, Michigan, etc) help keep the average age of a vehicle in this country lower, lol. Put it this way, I've seen holes rotted in cars as new as 2015 already and replaced brake lines on a 2011 Impala a few months ago because they rotted through so...............................When I complain about how fast cars rust here, I'm not exaggerating, unfortunately.

I don't think they necessarily have the money for some of those new vehicles, they're in debt up to their eyeballs.

Anyways, enough highjacking Just Wondering's thread and back to the Tempest!

 

[Justwondering]

Good news. Got the back seats out and floor cleaned up with a blanket laid in place to crawl to the trunk

Bad news: I can’t get my shoulders through the opening and even if I could my hips wouldn’t fit. My arms would have to be 18 inches longer. Lol

I definitely need a better pick to do the 'pick a lock' thing. My bobby pin is too flexible.

There is also a plate behind the lock which I think is welded in place. So I will have to reach up behind the plate to unscrew the latch. Ergo, I have to recruit a smaller person and so far my nephew is 6'1" and runs track and his buddy that helps me is 6'3" and plays tackle on the football team.

Of the two, I'm thinking my nephew might fit if he's on his back an we kind of shove him in the trunk. lol what a visual.

No go on any trunk action til it cools down. He'd pass out from the pain.

JW

 

[Justwondering]

I grew weary of the realization that I cannot yet pick a lock and was tired of sweat dripping down my face, so I moved to the shade and decided to remove the rear beauty rail that keeps the flooring down.

The flooring is toast, its a combination of carpet across the center from front to back and rubber/plastic under the seats and footfeet area. Everything is cracking or falling apart.

The floorpan on the rear passenger side has holes in it near the transmission tunnel (remember the transmission is in the rear). That means I'll have to replace the floor in the back and if that is the case, I'm sure I'll have to do the front as well.

It doesn't look too bad as far as fabricating a new one because of the way they constructed the sides. I'll resize photos and post them.

Does make me realize that I need to decide if I'm going to go ahead and fix this one or part it for another one. I'm not sure any of them are in good shape given how the construction was done. Literally, they had tape covering gaps between metal sheets.
And so thoughtfully put padding in the floor before the rubber/plastic was laid down -- with absolutely no weep holes in the bottom but several 'gaps' along the side which would let road grime/water into the floor area. Which would then be trapped in the 'footwell' area.

This will make more sense when I post pictures. Let me work on resizing and I'll post things.

JW

 

[Oldiron440]

Can you put your camera in the trunk and get a picture of the latch/striker?

 

[barbee6043]

Drill out the lock. Pay the $15-20 for a new one. Done!

 

[Camtron]

New Door & Trunk Locks With GM Keys Pontiac Full Size 1961 1962 1963 1964 | eBay

 

[Justwondering]

I'm having my first go at creating a media album for the photos.
Not quite sure how all this works yet, but there are more pics over there.
I was thinking I could like to the pictures in the media album ; but I'm not feeling the love just yet.

JW