Sublime440
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Very cool progress. What valve covers are you going with? Or are you going to repaint those orange?
'83 Mirada street/strip project - my official return to FMJ!
- Thread starter 72Dodge
- Start date
72Dodge
Well-Known Member
Thanks! Chrome Edelbrock because I already have them. I'm trying to use as much stuff as I already have. I am thinking of this car as a storage solution for all the parts I have lying around with no home!
72Dodge
Well-Known Member
My engine install plans were foiled again today. I bought a Hughes flexplate that is for internal balance, 10" bolt pattern, 727. I have the B&M Holeshot 10415 torque converter that is supposedly for same (internal balance, 10" bolt pattern, 727). But they don't mate up. The 10" is correct, but the pattern is slightly off no matter how I try to install it. The closest options, 3 of the holes are on and the other is a good 1/4" off, and the other close option, 2 are on and the other 2 are maybe a 16th or so off... enough that the bolts aren't going in. I took a break. I'll look at it again later, but I tried pretty hard, it just doesn't mate up. Then I'll do more research, or maybe I just need to bite the bullet and buy a B&M one (more expensive than the Hughes one I got). Now this will probably need to wait until next weekend, and hopefully I'll have time over the holiday weekend.
72Dodge
Well-Known Member
Everything checks out so it should fit, but doesn't. Looks like my next least-expensive option is a TCI flexplate for $45. The Hughes one I bought was $30. Combine those 2 and I could have almost bought a B&M SFI certified one (not that I need it).
72Dodge
Well-Known Member
[Sorry, the below is a train-of-thought post that I'm keeping for my own reference... I think as I went, I found the answer... I hope. Still doesn't explain why this blasted Hughes flexplate doesn't fit on my converter!]
My engine ('74 318) has a cast crank. Does this make a difference (in the converter used)? I'm wondering if this converter isn't right for my cast crank application, or does it not matter? I'm hoping I don't have to buy a different converter. (at least now now, even though I know the stall isn't really high enough for my 284/484 cam, but I wanted to try it anyway since I have it). I don't see any extra weights on this converter, which is why I'm asking.
I think I have a stock converter in the closet, and there's a good chance it's for a cast crank... but it would be stock stall, which would be completely not ideal here.
And in any case, would that make a difference in how the the flexplate would fit?
This is getting pretty confusing and not as straightforward as I'd hoped... but then when is it ever!?!
EDIT: I found a post on moparts that I think explains it. It looks like I may need to get a flexplate with weights added to be able to use this neutral balance converter. I'm not sure it explains the bolt pattern fit issue, but either way, with a cast crank and neutral converter, it looks like that's what I need to use. Apparently B&M makes one, but I can't tell on their site, so I'll have to call them Monday. The Hughes flexplate isn't a total waste, because eventually I'll need it for one of these 340's I have, or for my GTS, so no big deal. I guess this is a good thing to have caught now before I got it running only to discover I have a vibration or break something.
But hey... that's the main reason I'm doing this project, to learn, and it's certainly a plan that's working!
EDIT #2: More research shows that ALL 318's should have a neutral balance converter AND neutral flexplate. So, what I have should work (if I could get it to bolt up). Apparently, the cast/forged crank issue is only for 340s, and of course 360s? Is it true that all 318's are internally balanced, and forged crank 340's are internally balanced, but cast crank 340's are externally balanced? That might make this whole thing make sense.
Hey at least with all this research by the time I figure all this out, I'll know a heck of a lot about converter/flexplate combos!
EDIT #3: Just found this on an old FABO posting, and I think it makes it all make sense. Apparently my converter and flexplate should both be neutral: "externally balanced engines (340 or 360 or 400 or 440 with cast cranks) use a engine specific balancer (360 is different from 340 is different from 400 is different from 440) and the flex plate OR torque converter will have an offset/weights (but not both of them)."
One of the main things that confused me here is that the B&M converter instructions talk about cast crank engines needing a balancing, and they have a chart showing 340, 360 and all the big block engines, but NO mention whatsoever of the 318. So, I referred to their cast-crank directives, but I don't think that applies to 318's since they're all internally balanced. No love for the 318 at all.
My engine ('74 318) has a cast crank. Does this make a difference (in the converter used)? I'm wondering if this converter isn't right for my cast crank application, or does it not matter? I'm hoping I don't have to buy a different converter. (at least now now, even though I know the stall isn't really high enough for my 284/484 cam, but I wanted to try it anyway since I have it). I don't see any extra weights on this converter, which is why I'm asking.
I think I have a stock converter in the closet, and there's a good chance it's for a cast crank... but it would be stock stall, which would be completely not ideal here.
And in any case, would that make a difference in how the the flexplate would fit?
This is getting pretty confusing and not as straightforward as I'd hoped... but then when is it ever!?!
EDIT: I found a post on moparts that I think explains it. It looks like I may need to get a flexplate with weights added to be able to use this neutral balance converter. I'm not sure it explains the bolt pattern fit issue, but either way, with a cast crank and neutral converter, it looks like that's what I need to use. Apparently B&M makes one, but I can't tell on their site, so I'll have to call them Monday. The Hughes flexplate isn't a total waste, because eventually I'll need it for one of these 340's I have, or for my GTS, so no big deal. I guess this is a good thing to have caught now before I got it running only to discover I have a vibration or break something.
But hey... that's the main reason I'm doing this project, to learn, and it's certainly a plan that's working!
EDIT #2: More research shows that ALL 318's should have a neutral balance converter AND neutral flexplate. So, what I have should work (if I could get it to bolt up). Apparently, the cast/forged crank issue is only for 340s, and of course 360s? Is it true that all 318's are internally balanced, and forged crank 340's are internally balanced, but cast crank 340's are externally balanced? That might make this whole thing make sense.
Hey at least with all this research by the time I figure all this out, I'll know a heck of a lot about converter/flexplate combos!
EDIT #3: Just found this on an old FABO posting, and I think it makes it all make sense. Apparently my converter and flexplate should both be neutral: "externally balanced engines (340 or 360 or 400 or 440 with cast cranks) use a engine specific balancer (360 is different from 340 is different from 400 is different from 440) and the flex plate OR torque converter will have an offset/weights (but not both of them)."
One of the main things that confused me here is that the B&M converter instructions talk about cast crank engines needing a balancing, and they have a chart showing 340, 360 and all the big block engines, but NO mention whatsoever of the 318. So, I referred to their cast-crank directives, but I don't think that applies to 318's since they're all internally balanced. No love for the 318 at all.
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72Dodge
Well-Known Member
I ordered the TCI hi-po flexplate as well as an extra "stock" but 10" bolt pattern ATP one just in case. I want to do whatever I can to ensure I have what I need to try again next weekend, if they arrive in time with the holiday! I messed with the Hughes flexplate again. It absolutely won't fit. Well, I got three bolts in, but the fourth I'd have to enlarge the hole a little to make it fit, and that doesn't seem right. My gut is telling me that the Hughes one was made wrong, but I threw away the packaging and for the $30 it hardly seems worth sending back. I'll know for sure when the other two flexplates arrive. Both of them are for internal balance engines, so in theory, should be right, and should work.
MiradaMegacab
Well-Known Member
The converters bolt pattern isn't symmetrical, there is one bolt that is offset. Have you tried rotating the converter one bolt hole at a time?
72Dodge
Well-Known Member
Yes. The closest way is close, but not "quite" on. I'd have to completely force in the last bolt at a slight angle... it's not right. And yes, the flexplate is facing the right way too.
72Dodge
Well-Known Member
Flexplate update: I received the TCI and "stock replacement" ATP flexplates today and they both fit perfectly.
In the meantime, I've started stripping the silver spray bomb off the interior plastic with PINE SOL. It works great to strip the paint without harming the plastic. Makes my garage smell pine fresh too!
In the meantime, I've started stripping the silver spray bomb off the interior plastic with PINE SOL. It works great to strip the paint without harming the plastic. Makes my garage smell pine fresh too!
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Jack Meoff
Mopar Maniac
72Dodge
Well-Known Member
Yes, so more detail on what I did with the Pine-Sol:
As everyone knows, these interior panels are huge. I can't afford enough Pine-Sol to fill a bathtub or anything, so I bought one gallon to start with. I mixed it with water in a large storage tub in about a 25% PineSol to water ratio. Soaked one whole panel and a part of another one that will fit in this storage tub for about 24 hours. Removed it, took a green scrubby pad (like for washing dishes with) and the paint practically wipes off.
I'm going to go get a couple more gallons of Pine-Sol so I can fill the storage tub with the 25% ratio mix and soak the bigger parts about a half at a time.
Not sure if it matters, but I used the regular original pine scent Pine Sol (they make several varieties).
When I do more this weekend, if I think of it, I'll post a couple pics.
PineSol is used by figurine modelers a lot to strip the metal and plastic pieces of old paint without damage. That's where I got the idea.
As everyone knows, these interior panels are huge. I can't afford enough Pine-Sol to fill a bathtub or anything, so I bought one gallon to start with. I mixed it with water in a large storage tub in about a 25% PineSol to water ratio. Soaked one whole panel and a part of another one that will fit in this storage tub for about 24 hours. Removed it, took a green scrubby pad (like for washing dishes with) and the paint practically wipes off.
I'm going to go get a couple more gallons of Pine-Sol so I can fill the storage tub with the 25% ratio mix and soak the bigger parts about a half at a time.
Not sure if it matters, but I used the regular original pine scent Pine Sol (they make several varieties).
When I do more this weekend, if I think of it, I'll post a couple pics.
PineSol is used by figurine modelers a lot to strip the metal and plastic pieces of old paint without damage. That's where I got the idea.
jasperjacko
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- Dec 4, 2011
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Take a trash can and 2 large trash bags to fit in the can. Line the can with the first bag, put the part and the pine-sol in the second bag. Place second bag inside first bag. Fill first bag with water. this will take up the extra volume in the can and you can fully submerge your parts using less pine-sol. You can probably do it with one bag too... just fill the can with water and it will press around the inner bag and part to squeeze out the air. It will then be fully surrounded and soaked in your pine-sol. however you do this remember, the water goes in last.
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72Dodge
Well-Known Member
Good thinkin'!
For metal parts, one of the best "paint strippers" I've used is Wal-Mart's Super Tech carb cleaner spray. It stripped the LeBaron's factory paint & primer down to bare sheetmetal in two passes. It just fell off using a putty knife. However, it will not even put a ding in Dupli-Color factory-match type paint or clearcoat, which is amazingly tough. For that I had to use aircraft remover, a gallon of which I had lying around until it disappeared from my garage just before Flight 370 vanished. Curious... :icon_biggrin:
The Super Tech cleaner will melt plastic, so don't go there. It will also, and I swear I am not making this up, take the black off a cricket. You will end up with a tan cricket, and a splatter of black cricket finish on the floor around it.
The Super Tech cleaner will melt plastic, so don't go there. It will also, and I swear I am not making this up, take the black off a cricket. You will end up with a tan cricket, and a splatter of black cricket finish on the floor around it.
72Dodge
Well-Known Member
Um... This might not be a tech tip worthy of a forum sticky, but interesting nonetheless!
Jack Meoff
Mopar Maniac
Dammit.....now I've gotta find a Volkswagen.....
72Dodge
Well-Known Member
Since this is a Mopar site, I assumed he was talking about a Plymouth Cricket. I wonder if it would work on a blue one?
Jack Meoff
Mopar Maniac
Duh......I thought he said beetle.... :drunken_smilie:
72Dodge
Well-Known Member
I worked all day to get the engine in for the final time. Well....... it's in there. I only stopped because when I got to final motor plate fitment, I realized that I will have to trim the frame rail lip a lot less (probably hardly any at all) if I use rivet nuts instead of welding on the plate L-brackets. So, I stopped for today (let's be real, I was beat dead tired anyway after doing all that myself). It can hang there like that until I get the rivet nuts. I'm not sure how well they will work with the weird "U-shaped" frame rail top, so this may not be leading to a trouble-free conclusion. I could be in for some more intense fabrication, I'm just not sure what yet. I'll worry about that later, and will probably add some supplementary welds to the L-brackets also anyway.
Pics look much as before, but it's not coming out again now if I can help it. Headers & trans are bolted firmly in place now. It took an hour and a half to coax the headers into submission, mostly due to having to find the magic combination of bolts. Everything that needs to be cut for clearance has been cut and cleaned up. That had to have been an hour and a half alone right there.
So while I'm working, the FedEx guy delivers my new carpet and I just had to do a "test run" of it during a break. This car is going to make Darth Vader look like a snowman when I'm done. Turns out, the FedEx guy who brings my weekly car parts is a Mopar guy. Has several E-bodies, a B-body or two, and a couple non-Mopars too. Awesome.
Aaaaannnnddd... I started working on the trunk firewall also. I figured out that a stock 24"x48" sheet steel will cover most of the opening and assorted holes with just a little trimming (mostly around the driveshaft tunnel). Should be pretty easy. Then I'll just have a couple small holes at upper left and right to cover along with the speaker holes. Then I have more big sheets of black carpet to cover all that to create a field of black.
Pics look much as before, but it's not coming out again now if I can help it. Headers & trans are bolted firmly in place now. It took an hour and a half to coax the headers into submission, mostly due to having to find the magic combination of bolts. Everything that needs to be cut for clearance has been cut and cleaned up. That had to have been an hour and a half alone right there.
So while I'm working, the FedEx guy delivers my new carpet and I just had to do a "test run" of it during a break. This car is going to make Darth Vader look like a snowman when I'm done. Turns out, the FedEx guy who brings my weekly car parts is a Mopar guy. Has several E-bodies, a B-body or two, and a couple non-Mopars too. Awesome.
Aaaaannnnddd... I started working on the trunk firewall also. I figured out that a stock 24"x48" sheet steel will cover most of the opening and assorted holes with just a little trimming (mostly around the driveshaft tunnel). Should be pretty easy. Then I'll just have a couple small holes at upper left and right to cover along with the speaker holes. Then I have more big sheets of black carpet to cover all that to create a field of black.
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