Big old Cross Ram intake?

Engines, Exhaust and Fuel Systems

  1. SeventysevenR/T

    SeventysevenR/T New Member

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    Remember the old 60-61 Big block cross ram intakes that suspended the carburators on the outside of the valve covers above the
    inner fenders? it was offered on the 413/426 Max Wedge...

    I've alwas thought those were extremely cool. even cooler is that they don't say "edelbrock" or "weiand" on them. these were real
    factory built mopar parts!

    Ive been looking into dumping my old LA 318 and stepping up to a RB power house. the 413, 426, and 440 will all accept
    these big manifolds. ive done a little research, and I "think" this monster will fit under between the fenders of an F body...
    would need some serious mods to the hood, and possibly dent in the inner fenders but scoops are cool anyways... right...

    this mamoth intake setup is 43" from the outside edge of one carb to the outside edge of the other, the bars from the firewall to the fenders would have to go, other reinforcements would be needed... along with a custom air ceaner setup.

    What do you guys think?
    Could a person make this thing "fit" in an F-body?

    Please keep in mind this is a dream of mine, talking about it simply "keeps it alive"
     
  2. Mr.Lopar

    Mr.Lopar Well-Known Member

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    i know puttin a big block in a f/m/j body is a close fit itself, and with the big badass cross ram intake probably wouldnt fit, but if it could would be cool
     
  3. efriedrich

    efriedrich Well-Known Member

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    I think it would fit but you would definitely have to get creative with the hood.
     
  4. Greg55_99

    Greg55_99 Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm….. I dunno…. Here’s a Mopar (don’t know what) with a crossram setup;

    2.jpg
    Here’s MY F-body Volare with a 413 big block:


    attachment.jpg

    I dunno….

    Greg

    2.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 21, 2012
  5. efriedrich

    efriedrich Well-Known Member

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    Thats insane.
     
  6. bremereric

    bremereric FMJ Body Moderator

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    The white car is an A Body.
     
  7. res1vw21

    res1vw21 Well-Known Member

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    cool (I want a set bad, but to put on my '52 T&C 2 door wagon) but good luck finding some.....
     
  8. SeventysevenR/T

    SeventysevenR/T New Member

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    there was a set on ebay not too long ago, intake carbs, linkage and air cleaners all went for 1400 bucks
    (not that the air cleaners would be any use in an F Body)

    its an expensive touch, but MAN does it look @#$%^&*^%$ COOL!!

    Engine wise, a person can build moderate preformance 360 for under 5K
    but why not spend 7-8K on an RB and have something really different at cruise night.

    would be something a little different than
    yet another camaro with a 383 stroker... oooohh, aaaaahh
     
  9. BudW

    BudW Moderator Staff Member

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    I know this is a really old post, but I saw some things I wanted to correct and clarify some errors.

    There is some confusion about the Chrysler Long Ram and Cross Ram intake systems.
    These web sites can help answer some of the questions:
    allaboutrams
    Ram Theory

    There is the Long Ram intake (30” (762 mm) long runners) – which makes max power at 2,800 RPM.
    Long Ram.jpg

    The (Short) Long Ram intake (15” (381 mm) long runners) – which makes max power at 3,600 RPM. Another picture is on this thread, post #4 (in an A-body).
    Short Ram Intake.jpg
    You can see the full runner length on picture above this one. This one has more of an elongated plenum.
    Note: either of the above intake versions will fit the “B” big block (361, 383 and 400) or “RB” big block (413, 426 wedge and 440). Normal RB intakes are about 1” (24.5 mm) wider than B intake. The differences are the throttle linkage and balance tube are longer from RB to B engines.

    And the Cross Ram (aka: Max Wedge and a separate version for race Hemi’s) intake (7.5”? (190 mm) long runners) – drag race only (not the best for being streetable).
    iu8N3XIZI6.jpg
    Note: each version, the runner length is ½ the length of the previous one.
    Note: the Long Rams, the intakes extend over/past the valve covers. The Cross Ram intakes, the valve covers could be removed with intake in place.

    The neat news is This same system is being used in many of today’s cars. Inside of the intake is moving portion of intake that switches between short and long intake runners. I think someone is even using a three-runner length intake on a 4-cylinder engine.

    I have a pair of ’61 long ram intakes, p/n 1947162 and 1947163. My intakes are exhaust heated and corroded to the point the previous owner cut off the exhaust heated section of both intakes. The fueled section is all in great condition. My plan for them is to run with dual 4-bbl appearing fuel injection units – so the exhaust heated portion won’t matter as much.


    The earlier long rams used log exhaust manifolds:
    Long Ram Exh.jpg
    The newer ones used these beauties:
    Long Ram Exh Manifolds.jpg
    Short Ram Exhaust B.jpg
    I would LOVE to see these repop’ed for this would make a wonderful big block manifold.
    Note: both versions has provisions (bosses) to allow for intake heating via exhaust.


    In my garage is a (repop’ed) set of Max Wedge exhaust manifolds – but these exhaust manifolds and Long Ram intakes both want to take up the same real estate.
    Max Wedge EM.jpg

    I’m building both of my big blocks for low RPM torque monsters (for street usage) and it would be fun to stick a set of Long Rams on either my Volare or Fifth Ave – but I just don’t see them fitting (or the Max Wedge exhaust manifolds, either) without getting out a large hammer and/or a torch.


    Sorta unrelated, many of todays intakes are made in plastic. I have been playing with an idea to see if someone could cast these intakes in plastic. Then make a moving (or sliding) device that could make one intake perform in both long and short ram configurations – but still appear to be an original long ram intake.
    I’m just not sure who to talk about something like this about, or what costs might be.

    Another possibility is to get one cast and make it port fuel injection (injectors under the intake?) with just two throttle bodies hidden under air cleaners.

    The original long ram aluminum intakes (either version) are bulky but are still lighter than an original cast iron 4-bbl intake is (small or big block).
    BudW
     
    Justwondering likes this.
  10. XfbodyX

    XfbodyX Well-Known Member

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    Every car I recall seeing these on were not good performers and maybe why they didnt last longer in production then they did. Not meaning the max wedge race cars. In like 84 I went to buy a old 383 2x4 inline intake and could of got a paid of the long runner units for $90 with the linkage but passed.

    I think bud with your BB strokers your gonna have more tq then you can imagine with a conventional intake/carb or injection.

    But if ya do move forward on the idea I think injectors near the intake port would remove some of the pitfalls the old ones suffered from and considering your building street driven cars.

    Cool stuff.
     
  11. volare 77

    volare 77 Well-Known Member

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    I know a local guy that was trying to sell the longer ones to me. He wanted over a grand for them. They had been sanded on and someone started to polish them so that destroyed them for someone doing a original restoration. Cool looking though.
     
  12. Aspen500

    Aspen500 Well-Known Member

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    Way back in the early/mid '80's, a buddy of mine had a '70 Challenger RT/SE (440, 4-speed) and he got a pair of 426 max-wedge heads, intake, carbs, linkage, fuel lines, the works, for, get this, $250 (those were the days!). I don't recall what year parts they were. He put it all on the 12:1 440 that was in his car. Power up the ying-yang but, as mentioned, not very street friendly. Low speed driveability wasn't good at all. He had fun with it for a while, especially when the hood went up but eventually went back to the stock heads and aluminum intake and carb that were on the engine when he bought the car. Not as much power (still more than adequate though) but it was a heck of a lot more fun to cruise and,,,,,,,,,the car could go past a gas station without stopping.
     
  13. Oldiron440

    Oldiron440 Well-Known Member

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    The last thing you need is help with torque down low with a 4.15 or 4.25 crank infact the long runners will probably be more of a restriction snuffing usable torque not suporting it lower in the power band. If I were to pick an intake assuming your using a a cam with less than 225 duration @ .050 lift and FI, it would be the original signal plane M1 and not a duel plane at all. More than likely depending upon your heads you will have 500 ftlb of torque off idle anyhow. Then have a very strong mid range until 5000 rpm or so. You can't forget that your 500 is going to flow many cfm more air at the rpm they were most efficient and it will effectively lower the rpm they could possibly work at. If you take into the fact they're for a 413 and you building a 500 roughly ninth cubes larger that lowers all numbers for camshafts and intakes by 800 rpm in comparison to what a 413 needs and a little over 500 what a 440 does. This has the same effect on torque converters raising the stall.
    So trying to run big cubes through stock manifolds might be a compromise your willing to make but I'd have to ask why build the big motor in the first place then.
     
  14. BudW

    BudW Moderator Staff Member

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    I heard the Long Rams (either short or long) were bad with cold weather drivability and stumbled a lot until hot. I’ve not heard anything negative about power output.
    Most people I know, if car doesn’t run well shortly after startup, will get tire quickly of driving it.

    With the availability and drivability with fuel injection, I think tossing the carbs (or selling them) and going FI would fix most, if not all, of the problems (with either TBI or port injection).


    Also, I’ve heard (but no way documented) that ½ of the Long rams came on 361/383’s, and the other half on 413’s (same intake and exhaust manifolds for either engine type on that year of production).

    I would think with today’s better flowing heads and camshafts – that air flow might be more than the intakes were designed to flow, maybe.

    Currently, I have no intention of adding my existing Long Ram intake system to either car – but sometimes my brain thinks of possibilities and the what if’s. Right now they are "wall art" along with my collection of HP exhaust manifolds.

    I’m not even sure I could adapt and then cram under the hood (FMJ) a big block, a multi-length intake system from another car and still have cruise, A/C and fender struts – like the intake from a 3.5L V6 or 6.4L Hemi’s.
    BudW
     
  15. Oldiron440

    Oldiron440 Well-Known Member

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    I think they do look cool!

    It's like wanting a tunnel ram someday just because. Just because when I was a kid I thought they were cool......and I've never had one.
    If I give a little bottom end away its ak I've got plenty.
     
  16. volare 77

    volare 77 Well-Known Member

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    I had a tunnel ram on my 360. I never noticed any bottom end loss with 4.56 rear. It definitely had the cool factor. I think I`m done with it though. I have a low rise dual quad intake I may go with this time. Not sure yet.
     
  17. Oldiron440

    Oldiron440 Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to do a tunnel ram and two thermoquads.
    The carb that guys love to hate times two!
     
  18. Oldiron440

    Oldiron440 Well-Known Member

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    Don't tell these guys that the cross ram doesn't work, there ES/A car is way to fast and won't show how fast it truly is. A full second plus under index with an extra 200 lbs.

    583527838.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  19. BudW

    BudW Moderator Staff Member

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    I happen to love TQ's!
    Well, let me take that back, a notch. I don't like the versions (all versions) of TQ's used in FMJ vehicles - for those are (use your favorite 4-letter word here, or two)!
    Get one of the early TQ's (made '72-'74ish) and you have a diamond.
    The TQ's used on all FMJ's are so full of emissions components and junk, it is hard to get one to work properly.

    Just counted and I have 45 TQ's in my garage. Some are the good ones - a quick clean up and bolt on. The others were bought for parts (jets, metering rods, etc.). That said, I might not ever bolt one onto my cars - sense Fuel Injection is the way to go, now.
    I will miss the 4-bbl noise a TQ makes at WOT...
    BudW
     
  20. Oldiron440

    Oldiron440 Well-Known Member

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    I've made a 77 440 carb work once, once. Lol