Lean Burn / SCC trouble...

Engines, Exhaust and Fuel Systems

  1. Toro67

    Toro67 Active Member

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  2. BudW

    BudW Well-Known Member

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    I should clarify, I worked as a technician, parts counter man and as a service writer at a dealership, back in the ‘80’s/90’s

    In ’60’s and early ‘70’s, it was possible to find a Build sheet in these locations (that I have seen):
    Above headliner
    Under carpet
    Under trunk mat/carpet
    On or behind glovebox
    Taped to steering column
    Taped to evaporator case
    Taped to bottom of center console
    Underneath seat bottom on 3 seats (L/F, R/F and/or rear seat bottom) and typically between the spring and cushion (as if they used the paper as extra cushion).
    On bucket seats, between the seat back trim and back seat cushion (and not under seat)
    Behind the front door trim panel and taped to the plastic sheet plastic (weather shield).

    If your existing Build Sheet is more or less glued/stuck on, then I would take a good high pixel picture (professional camera) and maybe some close-ups – and leave it be.
    BudW
     
  3. BudW

    BudW Well-Known Member

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    A great price!

    Almost all of the mirrors used in that time frame, had a color coded sticker on front side of mirror (color coded to match the pin striping or car paint), which starts to look ragged after 30-some years in weather.
    They did not use that decal in ‘79 – so you’re good there.

    There is a small chance the outside of mirror, or outline, might be slightly different – but after installed – the only person who will know will be you.
    After installed, the differences (if any) are so minor that you would to have a side by side comparison to even know the differences exist.

    I have more to say – but I noticed the ad closes soon, so I will finish the rest of my thoughts on this, soon.
     
  4. BudW

    BudW Well-Known Member

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    Continued
    This area of mirror cable is where most used mirrors get damaged at. By prying on or pulling on the cables, you will kink the cables (which happens pretty easily). The mirror will pretty much ALWAYS go towards the kinks, thereby changing the adjusted mirror position.
    A minor detail when removing a mirror – but a detail that has MAJOR annoyance.
    Mirror clip.jpg

    You are missing the mirror base gasket, metal backing plate and 3 nuts. You could install mirror without the metal backing plate, but mirror will work loose in time bending the door skin.
    Mirror base.jpg
    Same with the gasket. It doesn’t seal anything, per se, but keeps metal rubbing against paint.

    Mirror hardware.jpg
    (another swiped eBay picture . . .)

    I “may” have the missing parts, this eBay mirror needs: the metal backing plate, nuts, gasket and dash nut (all used - but unseen).

    I might even have (maybe) instructions for install, as well (I have a NOS Right side bullet mirror, to be used on my ’77 Wagon) – but have installed these mirrors before, so can tell what is needed for that, when ready.
    The only “other” thing is the plastic trim for the plate that goes under the steering wheel – which I’m not sure that I have (if not, then I think I know where one can be obtained, at).
    BudW

    Mirror hardware.jpg
     
  5. BudW

    BudW Well-Known Member

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    I see the mirror ad “reset” to the higher price.

    $199.00 (US) is a lot more than I would spend for it.
    The earlier price of $70 something (can’t remember what it was) was a great price,
    Might be worth it to contact the seller to see if he will discount it, again.
    BudW
     
  6. Toro67

    Toro67 Active Member

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    Hi Bud
    Thanks for the comprehensive info :) I agree $199 is way more than I want to spend since I can add another $100 in shipping, and I am still missing the gasket and the backing plate. But if no one wanted it for $70 I see a good chance that I can get seller back down to that price.
    The best thing would be to find a similar car that being parted out. There was a 78 Diplomat on eBay that was recently listed as being parted out.
    (PARTING OUT THIS CAR) 1 LUG NUT 1978 DODGE DIPLOMAT 2 DOOR WITH 318 78DD1-LN | eBay
    I contacted him about the mirror, and he said he would list it, but it never came on. Maybe he changed his mind, since I can see the ad was debated here and some people urged him not to part it out.
     
  7. Toro67

    Toro67 Active Member

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    I see the 78 Diplomat is back. I have just asked him to list the RH mirror.
     
  8. BudW

    BudW Well-Known Member

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    There will be one, or two, of these black plastic loops inside of door.
    PLEASE tell the seller to cut the loops and NOT to pull on the cables!
    Mirror clip.jpg

    You can purchase, or fabricate, something to place into door to keep the cables from interfering with the door glass. Kinked cables are impossible to “un-kink”.


    Personally, I would recommend talking to the NOS mirror seller, and see if he will re-discount the mirror – for there is no substitution for a brand new part.

    I’m pretty sure I have the needed missing parts for you (or can get it reasonably, if I don’t).


    If you do get the used mirror, be sure to also get this panel (white arrow).
    20170607_140025.jpg
    This part has to be removed to access the dash nut, anyway.

    It will have a hole cut into it (roughly where the white circle is located), and a trim ring. You can cut our original panel (if you wanted to) or dye the replacement panel and trim ring to match.
    The trim ring is the part that is hard to get separately.
    BudW
     
  9. Toro67

    Toro67 Active Member

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    Thanks Bud.
    I am still waiting for the seller of the 78 Diplomat to respond. If I get a mirror I think I will just install the mirror itself and not bother with the cables or cutting in the dash. I am the only one driving the car, so once the mirror is adjusted it will never have to be adjusted again.
     
  10. BudW

    BudW Well-Known Member

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    There is a hole in dash and clips along it path already in place. If a person gets the under steering column panel, then no dash cutting is needed.


    I guess a person could coil the cable inside of door, and make sure it doesn’t interfere with the window regulator. Not seen anyone do that before – but it could be done.

    Before you do that, I would double check that you can adjust mirror from pushing on the glass – and it will stay. If so – then go for it, I guess.


    I have seen Chrysler door mirrors that owners cut the cables (ie: trying to install a remote mirror in place of a manual mirror, and didn’t want the cables) and that DOES NOT work well.

    The mirror needs to have tension somewhere, or the glass will just flop around like a dead fish being held upside-down (holding fish by tail with hand below the fish).


    About a year ago, at a pull-a-part by me, a person took off two chrome bullet mirrors ('80 Aspen wagon), by bending the door panels outwards to access the nuts (ruining both front doors in the process) and they cut the cables to both mirrors at the door skin.
    20160429_111919b.jpg
    April 29, 2016
    20160619_105233b.jpg
    June 19. 2016

    The only thing that can be done to those mirrors now, is after install, get is to use three pair of vice-grips to get mirror position correct, then weld or solder the cables in that position. Otherwise, there is nothing to keep glass from flopping around.


    I’ve installed these mirrors into cars, when cars were new (factory add-on accessories), and other than measuring and drilling the holes – the rest of install only takes me about 30 minutes to perform. The measuring and drilling takes me longer to do than rest of the job.
    BudW
     
  11. Toro67

    Toro67 Active Member

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    Ok I see the problem with cutting the wires.. I will see if he will list the mirror from the Diplomat and include the wires, backing plate, etc.
     
  12. Toro67

    Toro67 Active Member

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    Hi all
    So it happened again - the stalling. Since changing the ignition coil, wires, rotor and distributor cap, I have been driving 2 trips of 30 Miles each without stalling.

    Today I took it for a drive of another 30 miles to lunch with family. When it was time to head home I put it in R, started rolling a bit, and it stalled (like the ignition was switched off). The engine was semi-warm from a bit of idling 5 min before. New start, Reverse, Stall. All in all it happened 5 times over a distance of 150 ft. Then I headed home (forwards) and there were no problems on the 30 Mi home trip.

    This is a bit of a setback since I thought I had found the problem when I changed the ignition coil, which was leaking oil.
    Could it be the SCC gets "confused" somehow and cuts out when the car is put in Reverse ?
     
  13. Rustyroger

    Rustyroger Well-Known Member

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    I have used the water decoke trick on lots of old British cars.
    I always made it clear that to do the job properly the head needed to come off, and it wouldn't cure high oil consumption.
    However it did cure detonation issues with many cars, whether or not it shortened (or lengthened) the life of the engine significantly I couldn't say.

    Roger.
     
  14. BudW

    BudW Well-Known Member

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    Can you elaborate on the “water decoke trick” (or “water dechoke trick”)?
    I don’t see that being related to Toro67’s issue . . . I don’t think.


    Lean Burn/SCC has had its issue with heat in the past. Matter of fact, later police (and some taxi) cars had the computer moved inside the cabin.

    Electronics in general, do not like heat or vibration.
    Where did Chrysler mount the Lean Burn computer at: right on top of a vibrating engine and just on top of a hot exhaust manifold.

    “Heat soak” might be a good possibility, here – which means the most likely effected parts would be the computer or the distributor pickup.
    The other electrical parts might be effected as well, but not as likely.

    Fuel supply is another possibility.

    I don’t know of any good test to find a “Heat soak” condition – except possibly with a timing light (with wires pulled inside of car, via car door). In a no start condition, try the timing light to see if it is blinking. If it is not or is intermittent – then ignition is where problem lies.
    BudW
     
  15. Toro67

    Toro67 Active Member

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    Hi all
    I will have the ignition timing checked in the near future with the help of a guy from the Mopar Club. He will also help rebuild the carb.
    I just changed the reluctor and the pickup coil. The coil was pretty rusty, but the change brought no improvement in the way it idles. It still has little "dips" in revs every 3-4 seconds.
    Bud: I did ask if anyone had tried de-coking an engine with club soda in #28; hence the answer from Rustyroger :)

    Pickup coil.JPG
     
  16. BudW

    BudW Well-Known Member

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    Removing carbon deposits from engine with engine still assembled - I got it now.

    I don’t have an answer on that except for some theories.
    These may work – I don’t have an answer on if they do, or not.

    1 - drive the car like you stole it – to prevent carbon deposits to build-up from hard usage.
    2 - pour a substance into engine while engine is running. Back in the early ‘80’s, a fellow technician insisted that revving the engine up to 3000 RPM then pouring ATF (Automatic Transmission Fluid) down carburetor will get rid of carbon deposits. I have no idea or proof that it does – but it does eliminate anyone else from the area for a spell, sense it produces a thick white smoke. Note: only performed with cars without catalytic converters or had cat’s removed for this
    3 - use of walnut shells when engine is dissembled/partially dissembled. Soft enough not to damage anything but carbon.
    Again – I have not tried any of the latter two versions, nor do I have any before / after pictures to know what works or don’t work. Even though I was a Chrysler tech for many a year, I didn’t do many engine repairs for them (except for my own “stuff”)

    I do know that carbon deposits on piston tops, is what causes an after-run condition (after engine is turned off, engine will kick, sputter and will keep running for a short term – from carbon being hot enough to ignite fuel.

    Note: I don’t recommend pouring much of anything down the carburetor (ATF, any kind of water or fuel) for a couple of reasons.
    First is it doesn’t take much to hydro lock an engine. If you have enough liquid in a cylinder while piston is moving – then SOMETHING IS GOING TO BREAK!

    Second reason is where is the carbon deposits going to go? Into the catalytic converter(s) – which stops them up.



    Pickup coils do go bad – either totally dead or only go bad after a heat soak. Primarily at location of red arrow. The problem is it is hard to get pinpoint tests done to it due to its location – when/while car is acting up.
    Pickup coil a.JPG
    It is the cheaper item to replace (than computer) and does have a good percentage chance of being the problem.
    It if was replaced and still doing the same thing, then the two other items are suspect (computer or fuel line vapor lock).
    BudW
     
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