Pictures from today.

MBDale

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I've been thinking about making this move...since the motor's going to be out now would be the perfect time.

Mark, is the Borgeson pump required? Are there any advantages to going down that route?

I had previously installed the shim pack for the OEM box (which gave me a much improved feel) but now I'm wondering if that might play havoc with the Borgeson gear? I also have the factory cooler on my pump right now and therefore would prefer to simply keep that setup as-is...

Next stop is their site to learn a bit more about he whole setup...but I figured I'd ask here first since you did this a while ago and have always heard good things about that swap from you.
Definitely do the box when the engine is out, go for it! Then in a year, 6 months or whatever your not regretting it!
 

Aspen500

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You mentioned you had a big block pump? First I ever knew they were different. Is it all in the valving (do you know?) I'm just curious because I'm running the original pump from my car (S6), with a home done overhaul, on the big block and it seems to be fine (with the FF Stage II). As I said, curious is all.
 

MBDale

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Supposed to be a hole for oiling in the top left bolt right? This is stuff Chevy engine builders miss on Mopars.

B8B835BB-8E57-4386-ABB1-1C7BE22B80B0.jpeg
 

Duke5A

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You mentioned you had a big block pump? First I ever knew they were different. Is it all in the valving (do you know?) I'm just curious because I'm running the original pump from my car (S6), with a home done overhaul, on the big block and it seems to be fine (with the FF Stage II). As I said, curious is all.

I wonder if the /6 pumps are the same as big block pumps then. I tried to use my SB pump and the clock was so far off the tank was hitting something and the return port hit the head.
 

BudW

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It is my understanding with Saginaw P/S pumps, there are:
- SAE and Metric versions. All FMJ’s use the SAE version. The front wheel drive vehicles all use the Metric version. Pickups and vans used the SAE version until the either the Magnum engine or Hemi engine appeared. Metric pumps have “Metric” cast into the cast iron just behind the pulley and is viewable with pump off of the vehicle. I believe the "tin cans" will interchange between SAE and Metric pumps, but the mounting bolts and pulleys will not interchange – but don’t quote me on that.

- There are several different Chrysler “tin can” (I prefer to use the term can) versions. The (overall) “can” shapes are:
Older.png

Oval neck (used on older Chryslers)

Teardrop neck (started usage in early ‘70’s). Oval and Teardrop cans will interchange providing the return tube and clocking is correct (or if tube position is compatible). Picture is located later in post.

iuGHJC1CS1.jpg

Fender mounted reservoir (return hose goes to reservoir and large hose goes to pump can).


- Pulley design.
Older Saginaw pumps have a nut on end to retain the pulley. The older ones (all FMJ’s) use the newer press-on pulley.
Big blocks, small blocks and /6 all use different diameter pulleys as well as offset are generally different. Pulleys are easy to change out by renting a puller from an auto parts store.
The pulley on my '91 Caravan used a serpentine style plastic pulley.


- The routing of return hose:
A1 Cordone 206801.PNG


A1 Cordone 206859.PNG


A1 Cordone 207848.PNG

These are the three can’s I’ve seen used on FMJ vehicles. There might be other designs, maybe.
Not sure which one is which, but I suspect one is for /6’s, another is for all small blocks without a cooler and the last is for those with P/S cooler (which attaches to the rear pump bracket double-sided bolts)

Note: Most Chrysler vehicles use 11/32” (8.73 mm) P/S return hose. All other car makes use a 3/8" hose.


- The location of pressure valve bolt hole and two bracket (double sided bolts) holes - determines the can clock position.
(see picture above, yellow and blue arrows).
Pump bolts.jpg

Double sided bolts.

- There are a few different pressure valves used – which are interchangeable on all Saginaw pumps (not necessarily in order):
/6 pump (lowest pressure – best for road feel)
Normal
HP vehicles (340’s, Hemi, 383/440 Magnums, etc.)
¾ / 1-ton trucks/Heavy Duty usage (I think is the highest pressure – but lousy for road feel).

There are shims and different springs a person can use to modify the output pressure. I hadn’t practiced this to give any experience on it - but have friends who played around with pressures.

The same Saginaw P/S pump is used on my ’97 ¾ ton diesel pickup (with hydroboost) – but pump body is a bit different sense it piggybacks off the camshaft driven vacuum pump – but the can style is the same teardrop design (above). It is common for people to play with shims or to use a normal car pressure spring to get road feel more user friendly on pickups.

I hope this helps out some.
BudW
 

Aspen500

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I wonder if the /6 pumps are the same as big block pumps then. I tried to use my SB pump and the clock was so far off the tank was hitting something and the return port hit the head.
Could be the S6 has the same reservoir (return tube location) as a BB and SB is different or I just got lucky and it fit(?). Reservoir is like the last pic BudW posted.
DSC00242.JPG
 

Aspen500

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Supposed to be a hole for oiling in the top left bolt right? This is stuff Chevy engine builders miss on Mopars.

View attachment 33653
The chain gets oiled basically from what seeps out of the front cam journal. It runs down and the tab deflects it towards the chain. Crank windage also puts oil on the chain. Timing chains don't need a ton of oil supply, just enough to keep oil on them. Bolts aren't drilled. The parts catalog shows all 3 bolts being the same p/n ('79). However, (not sure which ones or years) I guess there were engines with a drilled bolt. Those look like the original bolts for that engine so it probably never had a drilled one.
 

volare 77

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Earlier year small blocks had the drilled bolt. I did both the drilled bolt and drip tab on my last small block.
 

BudW

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I’m not exactly sure on why some small blocks got a single drilled bolt and others didn’t. I suspect they discovered it didn’t make a difference – maybe.

I’ve not seen or heard of anyone having problems without using the drilled bolt.
BudW
 

Aspen500

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That's my understanding about eliminating the drilled bolt, it wasn't necessary. The chain gets plenty of oil without it. Probably also saved them 3 cents a car or something like that. You know those bean counters.....................
 

MBDale

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Back home for a few days. Put a Milodon pan on. New pick up, new bolts, gaskets. Everything’s going together now. The high end Fel-Pro gaskets are good. Got one for the trans pan too. Mr.C, I’m going to try and get you your windshield this weekend.

8A98719E-7773-42B2-B17F-EC27EB9AAF6F.jpeg


DC0523C8-7DE4-4BCB-9051-AA8C87CFCB4E.jpeg
 

Darth-Car

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It's so much fun when everything is shiny, and fresh! Very nice looking! :)
 

/6Volare

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Hi Dale
Sorry for the late reply.
I got the springs re-arched but still looking for a couple doors for 2 door. Not sure I want to pull them off the parts car as its in decent shape.

Jeff
 
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