Project Tire Fryer

[Bruceynz]

What about a cam like this

Brand:Lunati

Manufacturer's Part Number:10200700

Part Type:Camshafts

Product Line:Lunati Voodoo Camshafts

Summit Racing Part Number:LUN-10200700


UPC:788120713894

Cam Style:Hydraulic flat tappet

Basic Operating RPM Range:1,000-5,000

Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift:208

Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift:213

Duration at 050 inch Lift:208 int./213 exh.

Advertised Intake Duration:250

Advertised Exhaust Duration:256

Advertised Duration:250 int./256 exh.

Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:0.454 in.

Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:0.454 in.

Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:0.454 int./0.454 exh.

Lobe Separation (degrees):112

Computer-Controlled Compatible:No

Valve Springs Required:Yes

Quantity:Sold individually.

In-Store Pickup:Choose In-store pick-up (OH, GA, NV) on our web site.

 

[Bruceynz]

Or

Brand:COMP Cams

Manufacturer's Part Number:20-210-2

Part Type:Camshafts

Product Line:COMP Cams High Energy Camshafts

Summit Racing Part Number:CCA-20-210-2


UPC:036584500117

Cam Style:Hydraulic flat tappet

Basic Operating RPM Range:1,200-5,200

Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift:212

Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift:212

Duration at 050 inch Lift:212 int./212 exh.

Advertised Intake Duration:260

Advertised Exhaust Duration:260

Advertised Duration:260 int./260 exh.

Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:0.440 in.

Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:0.440 in.

Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:0.440 int./0.440 exh.

Lobe Separation (degrees):110

Computer-Controlled Compatible:No

Grind Number:CRS 260H-10

Valve Springs Required:Yes

Quantity:Sold individually.

In-Store Pickup:Choose In-store pick-up (OH, GA, NV) on our web site.

 

[Bruceynz]

I think the lunati one with the 112 LSA will will reduce max HP but flatten TQ out so it will pull good on a stock converter, the DCR will be right up, fuel economy will be ok, off line performance will be up and I won't have to rev it hard on a stock rebuilt engine.


AJ/FormS can you recommend a good cam for my situation I don't want to take a stock bottom end much over the 5000rpm, I think thats pretty high for a 360 stock engine.

 

[AJ/FormS]

So de cam (reduce over lap) or de crease chamber size will have similar effects on bottom end, this has become more interesting than I thought ever possible. So correct me if I am wrong, if you want to run a cam with big over lap you can actually get away with a high SCR because when its running the DCR is lower?Learning a lot here, hope other people are to

That's the gist of it.
Not only can but often/usually; have to-- to maintain the low-speed operating characteristics.
But you are confusing the reason. The reason is not the overlap, it is the late closing intake valve. And it is the late closing intake which drops the Dcr. So to bring it back, the Scr has to be increased.

 

[AJ/FormS]

I think the lunati one with the 112 LSA will will reduce max HP but flatten TQ out so it will pull good on a stock converter, the DCR will be right up, fuel economy will be ok, off line performance will be up and I won't have to rev it hard on a stock rebuilt engine.


AJ/FormS can you recommend a good cam for my situation I don't want to take a stock bottom end much over the 5000rpm, I think thats pretty high for a 360 stock engine.

Firstly, for a streeter,the 360 will,with oiling mods, go 6500 all day long every day. Mine has been spun 7200 many many times per outing,for most of it's 100,000 miles.
But that's neither here nor there for you, cuz you are concerned with fuel economy, and so that practically demands a small cam, and hi-compression.
It's too early to be recommending cams, on account of you have not committed to any compression ratio. These go hand in hand.And for you, it's probably best to order a custom cam. But if you have a good 360-2bbl cam kicking around, I see no reason to waste it.(see earlier post)You can certainly build an engine around it for your application.
But at this point, it is becoming apparent that you are very reluctant to put some proper pistons into it, soooooo,IDK what more I can say.
Oh one more thing
When comparing two cams with the only difference being the LDA, then the wider LDA gives up overlap and steals the duration from the compression stroke by opening the intake later. Reducing the overlap reduces the operating rpm but stealing the compression degrees is not always the best thing.
Lets use the 268/276 cam as an example. With a 114LDA, this guy has specs of 44* overlap and an ICA of 66 when installed at 112*.
Ok now same cam but LDA now 108. This cam will have 56* of overlap, and ICA of just 60* when installed at 106*.
You follow what happened there?
The tighter LDA has more overlap and an earlier closing intake,while the duration remain the same.
But for your application you also have to keep your eye on whats happening on the exhaust side,cuz every degree the cam steals from the power cycle is,at this performance level, one degree of lost work that could have been used to propel the vehicle. On a drag car this is expendable cuz most of the work has already been done and it more effective to get the next charge through. But for a DD we want to extract every ounce of energy we can to make it move the car. So we don't want to open the exhaust valve too early, and that is what the 114* cam will do, when compared to the 108* cam. So now you have to consider the rest of the combo,on the exhaust side. Things like headers and pipes and cats and mufflers,etc.

 

[Bruceynz]

What cam would you recommend in this situation?

Car has full length headers, edelbrock performer intake, 600 holley vac secondaries, 3.21:1 rear end I think 5000rpm is a good limit to have on a 360, its a road car not a race car, cams are so hard to choose but you have more of an idea than me what to look for.

Opps I posted this before the page had been refreshed

 

[Bruceynz]

Um the issue is the wife she will divorce me if I pulled the engine out again! So I am stuck with what I have got, no cam kicking around, need to buy one from USA.

I don't have bucket loads of money, I have some to do bits and pieces, unlike you guys who have a wife and kids who doesn't mind you spending endless days building engines and spending ages sorting things at machine shops and putting engines in and out of cars, changing heads and cams all the time. I am kinda jealous how you can do it, I certainly can't! Well i can but will loose wife and kids, she won't put up with me spending days in there and not helping out with the kids so I need to balance things! I tend to work on things late at night and go to work the next day so tired and stuffed!

 

[AJ/FormS]

OK well, that's that then.
You best take up whittling then or something else, cuz this is quickly gonna cause marital problems for you.
I think most of us put our personal lives on hold until our kids grow up. When I slowly started putting time and money into my project, my youngest was barely13. He was 16 when I finished.I had had the car in storage for over 20 years,when I started in on it. Yeah he got to use it for graduation day,2 years later. Between the two of us, by then, we had put quite a few character marks on it.He just recently turned 32 to my 63.In a few months I'll be just twice as old as he.I started out being 31 times as old.lol

 

[8v-of-fury]

OK well, that's that then.

Can I get your thoughts over on this thread? lol

Possible engine build-up

 

[Joe12459]

OK well, that's that then.
You best take up whittling then or something else, cuz this is quickly gonna cause marital problems for you.
I think most of us put our personal lives on hold until our kids grow up. When I slowly started putting time and money into my project, my youngest was barely13. He was 16 when I finished.I had had the car in storage for over 20 years,when I started in on it. Yeah he got to use for graduation day,2 years later. Between the two of us, by then, we had put quite a few character marks on it.He just turned 32 to my 63.

Yup, we put the cars on hold for a while. Then we pick up where we left off. It doesn't hurt to build something sweet for your wife, too! If you can get her hooked too, you're golden!

 

[BudW]

It doesn't hurt to build something sweet for your wife, too!

Very good advice!

 

[Bruceynz]

Hmmm quite an interesting conversation with a machine shop this morning, his friend has a dodge truck with a low comp 360 in it, he said they fitted 318 heads to it, machined the heads until the SCR was 9.5:1 and fitted a comp cams high energy cam 206/206 at 50 thou. He said it is a beauty package in the truck, great low down performance, its never going to be a racing truck but he said it goes real good on the street. He thinks for a street driven machine its very good. He said with the 360 valves flow won't be a problem for street driven, has he left HP on the table, yep I am sure he has but that wasn't the goal to have a 1/4mile race king, they wanted a perky off the line truck, and thats kind of what I wanted!

 

[kkritsilas]

Note the cam vs. what is in your 360. 206/206/114 is below the smaller of the Comp Cams you were writing about earlier. For the most minimal bucks, I would suggest that you put the factory cam back into your 360, or the factory 318 cam. Barring that, find out if the guy with the Dodge truck has the came that he pulled out to put the Comp Cams cam in.

 

[brotherGood]

I figured out what you need to do..towing cam and a turbo. you can fab up a turbo pretty cheap. turbos help mileage, and get you going quicker

 

[Bruceynz]

My friend in Oz has a 360 with a paxton super charger on it! He is about to install into his valiant (Dart in USA) hes going to run it at 600hp. Its got forged pistons and he is going to fit some alloy heads to it. Will be quite quick me finks!

 

[AJ/FormS]

206/114 kindof rings a bell...Oh, now I remember;isn't that the factory 360 2bbl cam?
Well pretty close, the 360-2 cam is 252/260/114, IIRC. Which nets out, at 050, at about 204? Anybody remember?

 

[Bruceynz]

Hi Guys,

Just for an idea I found some head flow data for the stock closed 302 heads, I entered that info into desktop dyno, entered in the 1.88/1.6 valve size, cam specs, got the comp at 9.5:1 with a 600 holley. Set it for small tube headers and mufflers and here are the results. This is all on a 360 block bore and stroke. I have no idea how accurate this program is but from what I see a stock 360 with 318 heads with the kinda stock cam is capable of 4500/4800rpm all ok.

Cam is a Comp Cams 20-220-3 CAMSHAFT XE250H

Duration @ .050" Lift:206/212
Valve Lift: .432/.444

 

[Bruceynz]

I did run the same engine with 360 port flow data and the low comp of 7.9:1 and the results were pretty much the same graphs but 30hp/ftlbs lower, so in this case one could say its not the flow but the cam in this situation limiting the revs??

 

[AJ/FormS]

clearly it is RPM limited.But so what!Check out the torque; exactly what you need for a tire-fryer.
And the powerband is set up for about a .72gearsplit, which with a 2.66 4-speed is perfect; pull the stick at about 5100

Oh-oh, I checked and see you have an A998. Does that have the 2.74/1.54/1.00 ratios? If so you will want to shift that a little higher cuz the split is 56%;Ima guessing outshift first at 5500, to drop into second at 3100.You are gonna need some valve springs,teener springs won't go there.

That looks to be 385/390 ftlbs. I can guarantee you that 385 will roast some tires with a 10/1 starter gear; maybe even with an 9/1, with a little TC help to jerk it loose.Once they are spinning, they won't stop for a long,long time.
Here are the suggested starters; 2.45x3.55=8.70,and 2.74x3.23=8.85 Easy peasy.
My 367 is doing it (spinning)with a lot less.I might have 200 ftlbs when I dump the clutch, and with a 10.97 starter, that's a theoretical 2194 ftlbs out the axles.
Your paper teener at 385 and with say a 8.70 starter is making a theoretical 3350 out the axles. So this teener is putting down 3350/2194=about 50% more ftlbs. Since my 367 destroys the tires, Ima guessing yours will nuclear-explode them!
But I just gotta say one thing; 385 IMO is a bit optimistic! But again you only need maybe 2000, so with a 8.7 starter; 2000/8.7=230 flbs. I know the teener can make that, I just don't know if it can do it at the stock stallspeed. Ima thinking no. But by 2800, probably. The trick is if the TC can jerk 'em loose. Once they're loose you can just buzz the rpm up and roast them.
I don't know if you understand that, so let me explain it a little. My 367/A833 cannot break the tires loose at idle, it will just stall. But by 2000rpm she can manage it fairly easily. If I have the line-loc on, once the tires are broke loose, then I can let the rpm come down,and down and down, until they are just barely squealing.That's a thing of beauty. Then as the tires warm up, and start to stick, I have to feed more and more throttle into it, to keep the engine from stalling. Eventually I have to increase the rpm cuz I am heading for a stall, and the engine no longer has enough torque at sub-2000rpm to continue. This all happens in just a few seconds, so I have to be alert.So the trick is to break them loose. Once they are spinning, I can keep them spinning.
Ima thinking your real-world teener will want a TC to jerk the tires loose. The stockers I have had are not real good at that.But I do have this one 2400TC that works pretty good. I bought it at a no-name shop when I worked there. They called it a Dirt-Jerker. Nice name, and nice TC.Works GREAT with 3.55s and a 2.74, and a stock long-block,LC73 teener.
So I hope that helps
PS that no-name shop grew up to be a big-shot Manitoba outfit. WesTrans.

 

[Bruceynz]

I thought it looked a pretty nice street friendly setup