Spare parts for oil leakage

1337m4723

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Hi guys,

long time no see...Hope you are all well and healthy. I've had a pretty lively year. After we got married, our landlord kicked us out of the flat because of a "notice of owner need" (we have a wonderful word for it in German: Eigenbedarfskündigung) and we had to look for a new place to live, which we did until October 2022.
During the move, I noticed that my Aspen was leaking oil - from both the transmission and the engine. I'm pretty sure the leakage is coming from the gearbox rather than the engine.
So I have been looking for spare parts to finally repair the damage. BUT Rockauto seems to have bottlenecks at the moment - especially concerning the input shaft seal of the transmission.

Unfortunately, we still don't have a lift, so I can only guess where exactly it's coming out. When I looked underneath, I discovered that the oil was probably trickling out between the transmission bell housing and the flywheel, so I assume that the input shaft seal of the transmission is damaged.

Now I would like to order as complete a set of spare parts as possible so that I am prepared for all eventualities.
That means I would also try to replace the main shaft seal from the engine in case that is also defective.

With the transmission, I'm not really sure which seal(s) are now defective.
My questions to you would be: in your experience, which seals are most often defective, or which oil leaks are known to occur in our cars?

Attached is an earlier photo of my transmission, but I'm not sure which one I have. From the oil pan, I would actually assume a 904 rather than the 727.

My Aspen station wagon is from 1977 and has the Super Six and 3 speed automatic.

If you can tell me what parts I would need at best for such a repair, I would also appreciate advice on where other than Rockauto I can get them if Rockauto has supply problems. (e.g. here.)

I already added parts to a shopping cart at rockauto. I assumed to use a 904 transmission. BUT at Rockauto the input shaft seal is missing (in German I would ask for a "Getriebe Simmerring". In English it's supposed to be a oil seal(?))


Best
Matze from germany

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Mikes5thAve

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It's a 904.
Is that the leak you're concerned about at the bell housing area between engine and transmission? The first thing you need to determine if it's oil or transmission fluid.

Being the bottom most point if it's engine oil it could be coming from a number of places even something as simple as valve cover gasket leak can work it's way down there so you really need to determine what's wrong before buying parts.
 

AMC Diplomat

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So my first question: is that some kind of silicone sealer squeezed out of a bolt hole? WhatsApp Image 2023-02-27 at 14.59.20.jpeg
Because if this pan is twisted by over torqued bolts and the use of silicone of course it will leak transmission fluid.

But to echo Mike above, you could have a leak anywhere on the engine that is just oozing its way down. Motor oil looks, smells, tastes, and feels different than transmission fluid. Transmission fluid also stains the pavement/asphalt much worse than motor oil.

You could get an engine cleaner or degreaser and spray it on the back of the block and see what happens. Maybe a leak will become apparent. Maybe the rear main seal on the engine is gone. Who knows.

Rock auto does have full rebuild kits with the seals for the transmission included. They don't sell the seals separately apparently. This is for an A999 and maybe the more learned Mopar folks will know if this works or not. I think it should because the 999 is just an upgraded 904. Rock Auto Link
 

Justwondering

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If you are having trouble getting what you need in Germany, private message me and I'll get what you need here (assuming its available in the US) and ship it to you.
You'd have to send me some german paper money so I can use it for money origami ;)
JW
 

69-

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Hi Matze,
Well, all has been said.

Check The oil first.
Black - engine, red - trans. Assuming its red at the trans dipstick (ie not burned).

Looking at the trans cover -thats pretty dry and good.
As long as the sealer does not leak, don't touch it. It usually wont flow out by the gallon :cool:. If you need to remove it, get an aluminium pan (summit has some) and a reusable gasket. As the aluminum pan is much better than those steel pans, it'll just be tight and right.

Then, to check on the simmering (rear main seal on the engine side, iirc), you can remove or slightly lift the trans cover (if you look from engine towards trans) to peek inside with a flash light. If its dry in there, trans should be good and you might be lucky on the rear main seal. A leaking rear main seal is a more common failure point, often (not always) accompanied with a black oiled trans bell housing (behind the cover).

Some more points to check are described as well. Valve cover gaskets (just ask justwondering about the pain of it ;).
Or the oil pressure sender. Deeply hidden between engine and fireall. Gasket of distributor or even the intake / -pan gasket. Down below, the oil pan gasket - which is a real pita at these cars...

Thoroughly clean everything and then coat all those suspected points with baby powder to see where it comes from. And yes, don't buy parts if you're not sure that you need'em.

Trust this helps. And good luck. Mine is leaking worse than yours, and that will stay on my todo for some more time... :eek:
 

Justwondering

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Baby powder ..... smacking my head in disbelief --

How did I never run across that before????

Dang, I'm going to go put some in the chevy engine bay just to see it work (power steering pump/lines have problems).
I cannot wait to watch this magic happen...

This is better than blue food dye in the waterline looking for it to show up in the field so I could find the water leak.

JW
 

Aspen500

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We've used athletes foot powder at work. There is a flourecent dye you put in the oil and then use a UV light with special goggles. Only limited success with that. The dye works great for coolant and ATF and A/C systems but not so much in engine oil for some rrason.
 

1337m4723

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Hi guys,

I am very sorry that I could not answer quickly.
First of all, thank you very much for your feedback, hints and ideas.

As soon as I have time, I will take a detailed look at the problem. The baby powder is definitely a great idea ;-)

It's a 904.
Is that the leak you're concerned about at the bell housing area between engine and transmission? The first thing you need to determine if it's oil or transmission fluid.

Being the bottom most point if it's engine oil it could be coming from a number of places even something as simple as valve cover gasket leak can work it's way down there so you really need to determine what's wrong before buying parts.

I'm pretty sure it's transmission fluid. But I'm also pretty sure that the engine also loses oil - but not so much that it's currently the bigger problem.

So my first question: is that some kind of silicone sealer squeezed out of a bolt hole? View attachment 49220
Because if this pan is twisted by over torqued bolts and the use of silicone of course it will leak transmission fluid.

But to echo Mike above, you could have a leak anywhere on the engine that is just oozing its way down. Motor oil looks, smells, tastes, and feels different than transmission fluid. Transmission fluid also stains the pavement/asphalt much worse than motor oil.

You could get an engine cleaner or degreaser and spray it on the back of the block and see what happens. Maybe a leak will become apparent. Maybe the rear main seal on the engine is gone. Who knows.

Rock auto does have full rebuild kits with the seals for the transmission included. They don't sell the seals separately apparently. This is for an A999 and maybe the more learned Mopar folks will know if this works or not. I think it should because the 999 is just an upgraded 904. Rock Auto Link
The pan was not removed by me. I have owned the car since 2017 and have not had any problems with the transmission. The oil pan has always been tight. I'm sure someone has been there before and sealed the oil pan with silicone.

Thanks for the tip with the rebuild kit from Rockauto!

If you are having trouble getting what you need in Germany, private message me and I'll get what you need here (assuming its available in the US) and ship it to you.
You'd have to send me some german paper money so I can use it for money origami ;)
JW

Thank you very much!! I will come back to you, if I won't find anything. Haha, and nice Idea with origami xD

Hi Matze,
Well, all has been said.

Check The oil first.
Black - engine, red - trans. Assuming its red at the trans dipstick (ie not burned).

Looking at the trans cover -thats pretty dry and good.
As long as the sealer does not leak, don't touch it. It usually wont flow out by the gallon :cool:. If you need to remove it, get an aluminium pan (summit has some) and a reusable gasket. As the aluminum pan is much better than those steel pans, it'll just be tight and right.

Then, to check on the simmering (rear main seal on the engine side, iirc), you can remove or slightly lift the trans cover (if you look from engine towards trans) to peek inside with a flash light. If its dry in there, trans should be good and you might be lucky on the rear main seal. A leaking rear main seal is a more common failure point, often (not always) accompanied with a black oiled trans bell housing (behind the cover).

Some more points to check are described as well. Valve cover gaskets (just ask justwondering about the pain of it ;).
Or the oil pressure sender. Deeply hidden between engine and fireall. Gasket of distributor or even the intake / -pan gasket. Down below, the oil pan gasket - which is a real pita at these cars...

Thoroughly clean everything and then coat all those suspected points with baby powder to see where it comes from. And yes, don't buy parts if you're not sure that you need'em.

Trust this helps. And good luck. Mine is leaking worse than yours, and that will stay on my todo for some more time... :eek:
Thanks for the advice! The pictures are old - I think from 2019. The pan is wet now, but I haven't taken any photos yet :-D

The fluid is red, so it's (not burnt) mainly gearbox oil. It may also be engine oil, but I'll find out (hopefully soon).

As we don't have a lift, I have to organise something or ask around first. Unfortunately, the ceiling in our shed is too low and the floor too bad for a lift... :-(

Baby powder ..... smacking my head in disbelief --

How did I never run across that before????

Dang, I'm going to go put some in the chevy engine bay just to see it work (power steering pump/lines have problems).
I cannot wait to watch this magic happen...

This is better than blue food dye in the waterline looking for it to show up in the field so I could find the water leak.

JW
In german we have a saying for such things: "Not macht erfinderisch". I am not sure but it could be "Necessity is the mother of invention" in English.
I am really curious about the baby powder. If I don't succeed first, I will DEFINITELY try this.

We've used athletes foot powder at work. There is a flourecent dye you put in the oil and then use a UV light with special goggles. Only limited success with that. The dye works great for coolant and ATF and A/C systems but not so much in engine oil for some rrason.
I've seen this kind of fluorescent dye on TV shows. I think for "new" cars or pretty clean ones (definitely not my car) it's pretty neat I think.
 

Aspen500

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New or old, it has to be cleaned first before using thr dye (or baby powder). As I mentioned though, the dye works well for coolant, auto trans fluid and A/C, but not so much with engine oil.
 

AMC Diplomat

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The pan is wet now?

Yeah I'm still betting on a warped pan with and over torqued bolts.

Silicone instead of a gasket is a huge pet peeve of mine.

When you get the chance take some pictures of the front of the transmission from underneath.
 

Mikes5thAve

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It looks like there's more then just a pan leak going on with that much leak from the torque converter area.
 

1337m4723

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Hi Guys! Long time no see..

First: Thank you for your help and all ideas!

FINALLY I came along to get my car fixed...
In May the Aspen went through german TÜV, without anything beeing done about the leak. The TÜV only noted "minor"-issues with a slightely oily engine and transmission (in german "ölfeucht). Funny, eh?

The garage I always go to get my badge said they are not up to fixing the leak, but they have looked at it. They told me that the shift shaft and the pan gasket were leaking, as you guessed.

So I was back finding a way to get to a lift and I found another garage willing to help me. The boss is a pretty nice guy, owns several cars (including a Chevy van with an SRT-10 engine with over 1000 hp), and offered me the use of his lift after hours. After the month-long ordeal, however, I preferred to take advantage of his work and let him get things done. I also bought an aluminum pan from TCI for the transmission to put an end to the fuss once and for all.

The end point so far now looks like the transmission is (at least) no longer losing fluid for the time being. However, the boss at the workshop told me that he suspected that the shift shaft might have shrunk and that ATF could leak out again. Only time will tell...

So much from me. Thanks again for your tips! It really helped me to find the right path.

If I had my own lift, I would definitely have been able to do it myself much faster with your help.

Best from Hanover
Matze
 

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If it suddenly starts leaking again after you drive it, check around the neutral safety switch. If there's an aftermarket one in there it can leak through the switch. Or the seal can fail from age or improper torque
 

Aspen500

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Yes, that's the switch.

Not common but I've seen trans leaks from the band adjustment screw. Those are more of a seepage than a leak though, yet it can add up to a drip. If you are unaware, it's the stud and jam nut to the left of the shift shaft.
 
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69-

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Clean the area thoroughly (toothbrush helps) and you'll see the culprit. Shift shaft - (double o-rings, inner and outer shafts) you need to to take the pan off again.
 

Mikes5thAve

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If it suddenly starts leaking again after you drive it, check around the neutral safety switch. If there's an aftermarket one in there it can leak through the switch. Or the seal can fail from age or improper torque

Aftermarket ones are no more likely to leak then oem. The shift shaft as originally mentioned and even the torque converter seal are the most common issues when it's above the pan. Also dipstick tube and sometimes where the lines go in.
 

1337m4723

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Hi guys,
Thank you again for your help.

Sadly I need to come back again to it...

Wenn the car is driven and remains still for more than 20-24 hours it will start to leak again. Yesterday we sealed the ATF-lining on the left to the shift shaft because it looked very suspicious.

Unfortunately I checked it again today (about more than 24 hours later) and it's back leaking ATF...

My question is: is it possible, that the shift shaft shrunk, that the new sealing is to huge?? The mechanic said this could be, but I cannot imagine that this happens?

Like you already wrote there are a few other places to leak fluid. I think it must me something on the upper side, because the ATF needs time to sink back from the converter.

Is it common, that the inner sealing from the shift shaft would cause such leaks?

Find some photos beneath...

I am really depressed about this
Much money and effort just for the bin...
 

1337m4723

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Sorry, my mobile is not doing what it should. Just sharing the same post again, instead of my pictures... I guess something is hating me at the moment.
 

1337m4723

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For explanation:
- Much oil = after changing the pan to aluminum + renew the shift shaft sealing (sitting for ca. 4-5 days)
- Good photos from beneath = after sealing the ATF line, after cleaning everything
- just a bit ATF = today after sitting for ca. 12-14 hours

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