Torsion-Bar nightmare

Chassis, Suspension and wheels

  1. 1337m4723

    1337m4723 Active Member

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    Hi guys,

    it's the german guy again.

    I was so happy when I arrived today at the barn where me and my dad are preparing my Aspen for german TÜV.

    The happiness is gone now I cann tell you.

    I ordered the torsion-bar bushings at PolyBushing. Both sets. Now we tried to remove the bars and the bushings. The Center-Bushing was a hard fight, but it worked somehow.

    Now the other bushing is the great problem. We don't know how to remove it. On the photo I uploaded I marked the "metalclip" I don't know the name of. Can this thing can be removed and more important: Can it be reinstalled after replacing the bushing? Or is there a way replacing the bushing without removing the "metalclip"? This thing isn't screwed I guess but riveted (if it's the correct english word for it).

    Once again I am just a dumb guy who needs your help...

    Greetings from Hanover (Germany)

    torsionbar_wheel.jpg
     
  2. Aspen500

    Aspen500 Well-Known Member

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    You will need to cut the head of the rivet (yes, rivet is the correct word) and then punch the rest out. Now for the "fun" part. Unless you get lucky and rust hasn't made the two pieces become as one, you have to press the t-bar out of the end bracket. On the one I did, ended up cutting the whole thing to get it off BUT, I had a complete OEM bushing assy, you will need to save the metal part.
    Once back together, use a grade 8 bolt and nut in place of the rivet. The original factory replacement package came with a grade 8 nut and bolt in the box.
     
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  3. 1337m4723

    1337m4723 Active Member

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    Thank you for your quick response!
    Do I understand correctly, that we must push the bracket over the complete torsion bar?

    Another question is: is that one solid part or several parts? On that photo from the OEM bushing it looks like this is one part.

    torsionbar_front.jpg
     
  4. Aspen500

    Aspen500 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it's all one part. The entire thing comes off the end of the bar.

    You'll need to drill the spot welds out that hold the two halves of the housing (shell) together to remove the rubber and put in the poly insulator. You don't need to reweld them afterwards. The attaching bolts will do the job. Same goes for the center pivot bushings. The 2 halves of the shell just get bolted back to the car.
    You could put the pieces in a vise and carefully tack weld them for ease of installation. Just be careful to do light tacks and not burn the poly.

    HOLD ON A MINUTE! I just had a DUH moment. If you're putting poly insulators in, you don't need to take the entire thing off the bar. Just split the two shell halves like I described above by drill the spot welds and carefully chiseling the two halves apart. The spot welds look like small rectangles instead of the usual round welds. Wish I'd have thought of that earlier and saved you a bunch of grief. :confused:
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2018
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  5. Duke5A

    Duke5A Well-Known Member

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    I've done two sets of these now and was never able to get the damn shells off of the bars without destroying them. Others may have had better luck. I live in an area that uses lots of road salt, so there is that too. You may be better finding a set of replacement ones that are all together already.
     
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  6. 1337m4723

    1337m4723 Active Member

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    So here I am to tell you my story ;-D

    The center bushings were not that bad to get off. The welded parts were tricky, but we got managed that. Tried it with a crowbar and hammer on. Additionaly we used a hacksaw, because the left-sided-torsion-bar center bushing was welded not only on the spots, but a complete line. (I'll upload some pictures)

    I just saw yourpost ;-D So we didn't use your hint. You're right it would've been much easier, but on our way it was "okay" aswell. Could've been easier, but we haven't struggled.

    Now the so called "fun part" :-D
    We cutted of the bolt and tried to hammer it out.
    We thought it should be a metric grad 8 size, an we didn't came far. So my dad tried to drill the bolt out. After half an hour drilling, hammering and cursing we found that the bolt is 11.5mm (in metric scale) and I assume that you meant 8inch :rolleyes:

    In the end it worked.
    The brackets of the torsion bar mount were really tricky. They were welded spotwise and in two complete lines. Was a real annoying job. We used a really small angle grinder (don't know if it's the correct terminology on english. On german it's just the "Flex") to cut the welded line...

    So at this time I cleaned the parts to bare steel and painted it black. (Both right bushing-brackets and the right torsion bar) The other side will be done the next weekend I hope.

    So thank you all for your help! The hints were really helpfull.

    I looked around after the spareparts. From a Mopar-Part-Dealer in germany I got the information that Moog stopped the production of the torsion bar mounts. So I am hopefull that the other side will work out too. If not I am in big trouble :eek:

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  7. 1337m4723

    1337m4723 Active Member

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    Here the last twopictures: (only 10 images possible)

    IMG_20180707_192528.jpg

    Screenshot_20180703-000224.png
     
  8. Duke5A

    Duke5A Well-Known Member

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    What Aspen500 meant with Grade 8 is the hardness, not size. See the attached.

    Let me know if you can't get the other one apart. I might have a spare set of torsion bar end bushings in the factory shell out in the garage. I've been holding onto them because I know I can't get them anymore.

    hcs_comp.gif
     
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  9. 1337m4723

    1337m4723 Active Member

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    Ah! Good to know :) That explains a lot :D Thank you for the explanation and the table below!

    I'll try my very best with not destroying the part :rolleyes: I am optimistic about the optical check. I hope it will outlast the practical check :D Otherwise I'll contact you. I think I'll post my experience with the other side aswell here. (when my time allows it).
     
  10. Aspen500

    Aspen500 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't see them in your photos but, be sure to not forget to put the friction plates back in between the center mounts and the k-frame. Those are the thin pieces with "teeth". Yes, I meant grade 8 bolt. The metric equivalent is 10.9 pivot kit.jpg
     
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  11. 1337m4723

    1337m4723 Active Member

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    Yep I have the plates! They are safe with the screws. They just weren't at the workingbench :D

    But thank you anyway! :)
     
  12. Duke5A

    Duke5A Well-Known Member

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    Not much more to add except I'm really impressed with this. Parts are not easy to come by for these cars in Europe. Takes a lot dedication. Kudos!
     
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  13. 1337m4723

    1337m4723 Active Member

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    Thank you for the compliment! :) I'm trying my very best to find all needed parts... RockAuto is a good source for normal consumable parts in germany. When it's getting more advanced like the torsionbar-problem it'll take much more afford. Nobody owns such a car. I only know two guys with Plymouth Volaré Wagon. But nobody owns a Dodge Aspen :cool: (at least I don't know somebody...)
     
  14. Aspen500

    Aspen500 Well-Known Member

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    Some parts aren't easy to come by for Aspen and Volare in America or Canada either, much less Europe.
     
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  15. ZieglerSpeed

    ZieglerSpeed Well-Known Member

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    I have a dumb question. What is the effect if my F,M,J needs the work the fellow in Germany is doing to rebuild his torsion bar setup
     
  16. Justwondering

    Justwondering Well-Known Member

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    1337m4723

    I bow to your persistence and excellent command of two languages, this website and camera work!
    :)

    You ever decide to come to Texas and want to work on an old tractor out in the field under a small tent in the middle of summer, just say the word..lol

    JW
     
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  17. 1337m4723

    1337m4723 Active Member

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    Thank you very much! I'm doing my very best :) Sometimes I'm afraid that my spelling or terminology isn't correct. In my job I'm an IT-guy in healthcare and have nothing to do with automotive technical vocabulary :D My camera work here is not my best. These pictures are shot with my smartphone. My girlfriend and me are doing some better stuff with "real" cameras :cool: When the car is ready I'll shoot some pictures and I think I'll upload it here.

    It would be nice travelling to USA :) It's a dream for me visiting the states and driving along Route 66. Only to use clichés :D:D It would be great if we could meet when the time comes :)
     
  18. Justwondering

    Justwondering Well-Known Member

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    You and your lady are welcome anytime...

    Looking forward to your 'real' pictures.

    My dream is to visit Olsnica, Poland (formally Oels, Germany -- many, many years ago). I understand my grandfather's family is from there.
    Someday, maybe.

    JW
     
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  19. 1337m4723

    1337m4723 Active Member

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    So after months I'm back with the storytelling. Because of some other activities we hadn't spent much time working on the car. In the meantime we were able to work on the other bar. We separated everything and painted it like the first torsion bar. So the metal luckily is in a good condition.

    Now we are working on the ball joints. We discovered that the dust sleeves were defective and are now replacing all four ball joints.

    I have a question about the shock absorber rubbers. (see pictures below) Unfortunately I don't know the correct technical term. Can these rubbers be bought somewhere? Mine don't look so good, so there might have to be some new ones.

    Many greetings from germany

    IMG_20181027_112518.jpg

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  20. 80mirada

    80mirada Well-Known Member

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    K-frame bushings, subframe insulator bushings, and about a dozen other names. Firm Feel, Espo (springs n things), and poly bushings have them.

    www.firmfeel.com
    http://www.polybushings.com/pag

    They will be polyurethane, rubber ones are almost impossible to get now. Firm Feel has solid aluminum ones too
     
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