Oldiron440
Well-Known Member
I can almost believe 15.71@88mph but 14.70 @ 93 I don't think so.....
When it comes to correctness?
- Thread starter XfbodyX
- Start date
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hotrod.com/articles/mopp-0111-1978-dodge-lil-red-express-truck/amp/
Hot Rod magazine claimed the 14.70 times during their test runs (still don’t make it true) but, i tend buy what they’re selling.
XfbodyX
Well-Known Member
GM Ford and Chryslers had and still have been tossing out ringers for decades that will run a better number to make the crowds happy and sell cars. Even today, for instance the Demon and its claimed proven NHRA cert times, ect has been acheived by only a few who have tried being as delivered.
One thing I noticed here thats not mentioned yet is the so called real reason to try to slide the W2 trhough was to get it labeled a stock head then it could of cleaned up in the stock classes. Really not about selling trucks.
I used to tow my bracket car with a lil red, In the 80-s I thought it was a sissy truck so off went the stacks, decals, ect but I kept the chrome rims as they could of been had on a std truck as well.
I one was ever a part of a group who bought the same cars off the lot and raced them, say ten of the same, one or two would run exceptionally well and stomp the other eight time and time again, all from the same parts bins, kinda like Forest and his box of candy.
Looking back, to me its was all alot of fun, most cars of all makes were all within reach of each other depending at times on the driver and it was just plane fun as it was meant to be. I feel alot of that parts has been lost in our hobby.
One thing I noticed here thats not mentioned yet is the so called real reason to try to slide the W2 trhough was to get it labeled a stock head then it could of cleaned up in the stock classes. Really not about selling trucks.
I used to tow my bracket car with a lil red, In the 80-s I thought it was a sissy truck so off went the stacks, decals, ect but I kept the chrome rims as they could of been had on a std truck as well.
I one was ever a part of a group who bought the same cars off the lot and raced them, say ten of the same, one or two would run exceptionally well and stomp the other eight time and time again, all from the same parts bins, kinda like Forest and his box of candy.
Looking back, to me its was all alot of fun, most cars of all makes were all within reach of each other depending at times on the driver and it was just plane fun as it was meant to be. I feel alot of that parts has been lost in our hobby.
Aspen500
Well-Known Member
Back in the late '80's, a buddy of mine had a 99% mint, bone stock Lil Red with less than 60,000 miles, he bought from a Ford dealers used lot for a whole $2,200. Someone had traded it in on a new Ford truck (WTF?) Anyways, we took it to WIR over in Kaukauna once and on the stock (LR60-15???) tires it ran mid 15's with traction problems. We bolted on a set of stickier M50-15 bias plies and with better traction, it JUST broke into the 14's (14.90 IIRC) so 14.70 would be possible with a little tweaking or even just some drag radials. As I said, his was 100% bone stock. Wonder what ever happened to that truck?
Oldiron440
Well-Known Member
I read the same article's back in the day about the LTE as everyone else but never owned one. I would think mopar wouldn't have gone through the cost of certification of a W2 headed low production motor, I can't believe the heads would have made that much more power on a stock cammed motor.
Aspen500
Well-Known Member
They would have needed a "bigger" cam to have the W2's make much of a difference. That would most likely require a higher CR, on and on. Another consideration is, it still had to meet an emission standard regardless of anything else. I still think it's cool that a truck was quicker than the almighty Corvette (among others) that year.
Speaking of correct, the guy I knew that had the Lil Red replaced the entire exhaust system, including the tips, because the mufflers rotted out and at that time, you could buy every part from the Dodge dealer. Same with the wheels. They were a little scratched up and had a few small rust spots and he got new wheels from the dealer also. Can't get more correct than that. Too bad the owner, a few years later, went psycho and the truck was sold and disappeared. I don't mean psycho as in he sold the truck, he literally went psycho as in, lost his frickin' mind, went over the edge, ended up on the drooler patio insane.
Speaking of correct, the guy I knew that had the Lil Red replaced the entire exhaust system, including the tips, because the mufflers rotted out and at that time, you could buy every part from the Dodge dealer. Same with the wheels. They were a little scratched up and had a few small rust spots and he got new wheels from the dealer also. Can't get more correct than that. Too bad the owner, a few years later, went psycho and the truck was sold and disappeared. I don't mean psycho as in he sold the truck, he literally went psycho as in, lost his frickin' mind, went over the edge, ended up on the drooler patio insane.
“Unknowingly, the feds provided a big assist. First, if the gross vehicle rating was 6,100 pounds or greater, then leaded gas with a no-cat exhaust system was allowed. Second, a handful of modifications were allowed to an emissions-certified engine, and the full certification cycle didn’t have to be rerun”
“The engine received some radical revisions (no) thanks to the engineering department. Because the W-2 cylinder head wasn’t a production piece, engineering felt it wouldn’t pass emissions certification and durability reviews-even though covert testing proved the chief engineer wrong-so the standard 360 heads with 1.88-inch-diameter (intake) and 1.60-inch-diameter (exhaust) valves were bolted on.”
Emission regulations helped the LRE into production and hindered its production at the same time.
“The engine received some radical revisions (no) thanks to the engineering department. Because the W-2 cylinder head wasn’t a production piece, engineering felt it wouldn’t pass emissions certification and durability reviews-even though covert testing proved the chief engineer wrong-so the standard 360 heads with 1.88-inch-diameter (intake) and 1.60-inch-diameter (exhaust) valves were bolted on.”
Emission regulations helped the LRE into production and hindered its production at the same time.
XfbodyX
Well-Known Member
I would think mopar wouldn't have gone through the cost of certification of a W2 headed low production motor
Why not? To get it for a production head in sanctioned race classes would net far more numbers then chrysler did with the daytons and superbirds for nascrap and the ta and aar cars and really how many ta/aar teams were there, only a few.
Why not? To get it for a production head in sanctioned race classes would net far more numbers then chrysler did with the daytons and superbirds for nascrap and the ta and aar cars and really how many ta/aar teams were there, only a few.
Aspen500
Well-Known Member
X, I think you probably nailed it on the head. It would have gotten the W2's to be considered stock production heads and I'm sure that was probably one of their ideas. Kind of like offering the 426 Hemi in production cars was mainly to get it certified as a production engine so they could use it in racing. As cool as the 426 Hemi is, it isn't really a practical street engine if you really think about it. At the strip, yes. On an super speedway running WFO, yes. Low rpm stop and go street driving, not so much.
Interestingly, seems only 1 W2 headed truck was built by the factory.
“The original ’77 LRT prototype was shipped to Walker Evans along with two production versions for the December ’79 running of the Baja 1000. After the race, which Walker won, two trucks were returned to Dodge and one was retained by Walker as a race prerunner; this was the last time the only W-2-equipped LRT ever constructed was seen.”
“The original ’77 LRT prototype was shipped to Walker Evans along with two production versions for the December ’79 running of the Baja 1000. After the race, which Walker won, two trucks were returned to Dodge and one was retained by Walker as a race prerunner; this was the last time the only W-2-equipped LRT ever constructed was seen.”
Oldiron440
Well-Known Member
What was pumped by Hot Rod as having W2s?
Oldiron440
Well-Known Member
I'm not a small block person so school me on the W2, they would have had a different intake manifold and exhaust manifolds correct?
Basically they took the push rods away from the exhaust port's correct?
Basically they took the push rods away from the exhaust port's correct?
longer valve was used to fit the longer springs as required with high-lift racing cams. Move the tip of the valve up higher and the rockers will also have to move both up and away inward due to the valve’s 18-degree angle from vertical. To accommodate the requirement for a relocated valvetrain, the race W-2s came with the rocker pedestals milled off and utilized separate stands and offset shafts to get the rockers in the proper orientation. W-2 heads feature wide, oval intake ports, which means the intake rockers must be offset so the pushrods will clear. As a result, W-2 heads need special offset intake rockers, W-2 oval port intake manifold and special headers do to the exhaust ports also being relocated.
Oldiron440
Well-Known Member
So it would be unlikely that any got out the door on a vehicle??!
Aspen500
Well-Known Member
Correct.
I seem to recall the need for a different intake and exhaust manifolds/headers was kind of the W2's downfall (for street use anyways). In other words, very few choices for intakes and exhaust. All of this was loooooooooong ago when I was a teenager in the '70's so it's possible I remember it all wrong.
Not likely at all. From anything I’ve found, one truck was made as a prototype in 1977 with the W2 head/manifold combo. That was the truck, Hot Rod recorded the 14.70 quarter mile in and the same truck later given to Walker Evans to run the 1979 Baja 1000.
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