Justwondering
Well-Known Member
I like the buffer zone you have between your handsome ride and the plastic posse.
Who Really Won The Wars?
- Thread starter Jack Meoff
- Start date
Jack Meoff
Mopar Maniac
She gets pissed off from the smell if I park too close to them.
Dr Lebaron
Well-Known Member
All about 'connections'
In the 50's, someone feeling sorry for the Japanese handed the transistor to them.
This led to the transistor radios and TV's being made there.
Japanese have always been good at glass, which leads to camera lenses.
TV and camera factory workers in the US are the first to get the boot.
Which leads to a recession in the early 60's.
Cars are downsized, now housewives go to work and the age of the LBJ 'gib me's' begin with midnight basketball and food stamps.
The Japanese took that transistor money and built new steel plants.
North American ones where old and not as efficient.
Good-bye jobs in Indiana, Ohio and Hamilton, Ont.
Now japan has steel, it can build steel stuff, like ships and cars.
More jobs gone.
Now into the dirty late 60's into the 70's, most cities are just hell holes.
NYC was not far from Escape from NY.
EVERYONE was a thief right up to the U.S. president.
Corporate had the bean counters working OT so they could wallow in the money.
To compete with these new Japanese cars during the oil embargo, HEY, the Vega and Pinto!
Good bye auto jobs!
Now lets bring in world trade.
Move what's left to Mexico, ship from China and there's enough 3rd world crap holes to sew clothes.
Which leaves us with what?
Shame that too many people ate lead paint chips, then had nutbar kids who drank hard, beat the wife and kids, which led to all the drug addicts now cranking out nutbar kids, who are cranking out kids while on meth, which leads to a 'great' work force now.
Why work when the 'guberment' pays well and can supplement income with crime.
Hello Ferguson!
Connections in a summary.
In the 50's, someone feeling sorry for the Japanese handed the transistor to them.
This led to the transistor radios and TV's being made there.
Japanese have always been good at glass, which leads to camera lenses.
TV and camera factory workers in the US are the first to get the boot.
Which leads to a recession in the early 60's.
Cars are downsized, now housewives go to work and the age of the LBJ 'gib me's' begin with midnight basketball and food stamps.
The Japanese took that transistor money and built new steel plants.
North American ones where old and not as efficient.
Good-bye jobs in Indiana, Ohio and Hamilton, Ont.
Now japan has steel, it can build steel stuff, like ships and cars.
More jobs gone.
Now into the dirty late 60's into the 70's, most cities are just hell holes.
NYC was not far from Escape from NY.
EVERYONE was a thief right up to the U.S. president.
Corporate had the bean counters working OT so they could wallow in the money.
To compete with these new Japanese cars during the oil embargo, HEY, the Vega and Pinto!
Good bye auto jobs!
Now lets bring in world trade.
Move what's left to Mexico, ship from China and there's enough 3rd world crap holes to sew clothes.
Which leaves us with what?
Shame that too many people ate lead paint chips, then had nutbar kids who drank hard, beat the wife and kids, which led to all the drug addicts now cranking out nutbar kids, who are cranking out kids while on meth, which leads to a 'great' work force now.
Why work when the 'guberment' pays well and can supplement income with crime.
Hello Ferguson!
Connections in a summary.
ramenth
Well-Known Member
What I find interesting in this thread is the "CEO!"
Guys, stop and think about it. The unions have had a large role in this, too, as well as the politicians who are elected by the unions. Boeing going to a right to work state? Can't have that happen and for the first time in history a presidential administration sues a corporation for seeking to produce jobs. Because those jobs wouldn't be union jobs.
The shareholders take a bath, the vendors get told to f*** off, all because that same president gave two auto manufacturers over to the unions (a workers' paradise) to protect the unions' pensions.
I was a dealership technician most of my career, mainly at Ford dealerships with a stint early on at Chevy. I got paid little to nothing in the way of hours for warranty work and recalls, mainly because some overpaid UAW worker couldn't be bothered to do his damned job right. This idiot makes twice to three times as much money as I did, get's his 40 a week, has more bennies than God, yet I'm the one who's fixing his f*** up, because he can't be bothered to tighten down a damned bolt in the B-pillar and it rattles right at ear level with the driver.
I have to tear apart the interior of a car because the door alarm won't go off. Oh, look, it's a pinched wire between the seat belt retractor the B-piller.
Well, let me just pull the seat cover off this brand new F250 that just came off the transporter and have a look... Hey! The welds are misaligned on the seat bracket that holds the back of the seat to the bottom of the seat. Let's reinforce that with very small muffler clamps. Oh, wow, the welds are completely missing on this one! Gotta put a seat in it. Yup, the guy standing there (or sitting reading a magazine) didn't bother to make sure the pieces were jigged right when he pushed the button on the robot to weld it. The guy who put the seat covers on didn't bother to even notice when he was covering the seat (actually, he did, he just didn't want to rat out his buddy for not doing his job). QA? Not to be found for entire month's run, until someone finally said something. You have one job!
The CEO has a job to bring profits up, keep loss down. Shareholders have retirement accounts in the that company and enjoy it when the company shows a margin going up and the stock goes with it.
The union boss? What does he produce? Not a damned thing, other than milking the dues from the guys actually doing the work. He gets his bonuses, too, and if you take a look a lot of times he's as well paid as the CEO for doing... nothing. Absolutely nothing.
I've had my run-in with the union when I was pulling frames. UAW rep... I can get you paid vacations. Already got it. Weekends off. Already got it. $10 an hour. I make more. Health care and retirement accounts. Already got 'em.
So, let me get this straight. You're promising to give me what I already got, with a pay cut, all for the privilege of me paying you money which you're going to take away from me by negotiating a wage less than I'm already making?
Guys, stop and think about it. The unions have had a large role in this, too, as well as the politicians who are elected by the unions. Boeing going to a right to work state? Can't have that happen and for the first time in history a presidential administration sues a corporation for seeking to produce jobs. Because those jobs wouldn't be union jobs.
The shareholders take a bath, the vendors get told to f*** off, all because that same president gave two auto manufacturers over to the unions (a workers' paradise) to protect the unions' pensions.
I was a dealership technician most of my career, mainly at Ford dealerships with a stint early on at Chevy. I got paid little to nothing in the way of hours for warranty work and recalls, mainly because some overpaid UAW worker couldn't be bothered to do his damned job right. This idiot makes twice to three times as much money as I did, get's his 40 a week, has more bennies than God, yet I'm the one who's fixing his f*** up, because he can't be bothered to tighten down a damned bolt in the B-pillar and it rattles right at ear level with the driver.
I have to tear apart the interior of a car because the door alarm won't go off. Oh, look, it's a pinched wire between the seat belt retractor the B-piller.
Well, let me just pull the seat cover off this brand new F250 that just came off the transporter and have a look... Hey! The welds are misaligned on the seat bracket that holds the back of the seat to the bottom of the seat. Let's reinforce that with very small muffler clamps. Oh, wow, the welds are completely missing on this one! Gotta put a seat in it. Yup, the guy standing there (or sitting reading a magazine) didn't bother to make sure the pieces were jigged right when he pushed the button on the robot to weld it. The guy who put the seat covers on didn't bother to even notice when he was covering the seat (actually, he did, he just didn't want to rat out his buddy for not doing his job). QA? Not to be found for entire month's run, until someone finally said something. You have one job!
The CEO has a job to bring profits up, keep loss down. Shareholders have retirement accounts in the that company and enjoy it when the company shows a margin going up and the stock goes with it.
The union boss? What does he produce? Not a damned thing, other than milking the dues from the guys actually doing the work. He gets his bonuses, too, and if you take a look a lot of times he's as well paid as the CEO for doing... nothing. Absolutely nothing.
I've had my run-in with the union when I was pulling frames. UAW rep... I can get you paid vacations. Already got it. Weekends off. Already got it. $10 an hour. I make more. Health care and retirement accounts. Already got 'em.
So, let me get this straight. You're promising to give me what I already got, with a pay cut, all for the privilege of me paying you money which you're going to take away from me by negotiating a wage less than I'm already making?
Dr Lebaron
Well-Known Member
Hey, let's take the short cut and blame unions.
So that's why Chinese crap is crap-those Chinese unions.
Or Mexico can't retain workers, so a new guy every week is farking the job.
NOTHING to do with profit, engineering and cost savings.
GM goes to .0001 cent on their parts bids.
NOTHING to due with the recalls?
A lot of 'engineers' really thought they be driving a locomotive.
Look of what they build.
They build stuff that HAS to come back to the dealer.
That's where the money is made.
I worked 24 yrs in quality assurance and am well educated in the GM and Furd QA programs.
So that's why Chinese crap is crap-those Chinese unions.
Or Mexico can't retain workers, so a new guy every week is farking the job.
NOTHING to do with profit, engineering and cost savings.
GM goes to .0001 cent on their parts bids.
NOTHING to due with the recalls?
A lot of 'engineers' really thought they be driving a locomotive.
Look of what they build.
They build stuff that HAS to come back to the dealer.
That's where the money is made.
I worked 24 yrs in quality assurance and am well educated in the GM and Furd QA programs.
Jack Meoff
Mopar Maniac
An obvious large issue that I omitted.
Unions are the reason that the criminal party we have running or should I say ruining our province have been voted in three times in a row. They had their purpose way back when. Now they're just a plague.
Jack Meoff
Mopar Maniac
The unions are a huge part of this bass ackwards equation.
Dr Lebaron
Well-Known Member
Easy to blame 'lunch bucket' unions.
No money in them anymore, it's the public service unions where the cash is.
Here, the teacher's union needs to be nuked and tortured.
Police union for $100 grand crooks. HUGE JOKE! Hey-suspend me WITH pay. I sure could handle that.
City Hall inside workers-WAH!, we don't want to work Saturdays so let's strike for 20 weeks in the summer with $400 week strike pay.
Firefighter Union, paid 100g to sleep, cook and hit the grocery stores during working hours.
Know of one firefighter that hasn't been to a fire in 2 yrs.
University unions, job for life no matter, sometimes for millions a yr.
But it's 'all' the fault of people making much less.
Bean counting to extreme at a multi million factory.
We can go urinal pucks on every second urinal, because it's urinal pucks that brings the company down.
It has nothing to do with paying $199 for GM Vortex plug wires [see RockAuto]
Or the $12.99 tape measure that I can get better quality, made in USA for $2.99 on sale.
No money in them anymore, it's the public service unions where the cash is.
Here, the teacher's union needs to be nuked and tortured.
Police union for $100 grand crooks. HUGE JOKE! Hey-suspend me WITH pay. I sure could handle that.
City Hall inside workers-WAH!, we don't want to work Saturdays so let's strike for 20 weeks in the summer with $400 week strike pay.
Firefighter Union, paid 100g to sleep, cook and hit the grocery stores during working hours.
Know of one firefighter that hasn't been to a fire in 2 yrs.
University unions, job for life no matter, sometimes for millions a yr.
But it's 'all' the fault of people making much less.
Bean counting to extreme at a multi million factory.
We can go urinal pucks on every second urinal, because it's urinal pucks that brings the company down.
It has nothing to do with paying $199 for GM Vortex plug wires [see RockAuto]
Or the $12.99 tape measure that I can get better quality, made in USA for $2.99 on sale.
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Dr Lebaron
Well-Known Member
I've been sucked for union dues from PWAG, UAW, CAW, and now Unifor.
In that time I've always lost.
When times where great and the company was rolling in the cash, the raises didn't come.
When times change, a $2.00 hr cut in 06 isn't good enough, goodbye another $3 hr in 09.
PWAG invested heavily into GM in the 60's/70's.
Well good bye my PWAG pension.
In that time I've always lost.
When times where great and the company was rolling in the cash, the raises didn't come.
When times change, a $2.00 hr cut in 06 isn't good enough, goodbye another $3 hr in 09.
PWAG invested heavily into GM in the 60's/70's.
Well good bye my PWAG pension.
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Dr Lebaron
Well-Known Member
BTT, it wasn't the lunch box unions who won the war.
The mirror won the war.
I bought USA Curtis Mathis TVs until the end.
I bought USA/Canadian appliances.
I bought north American clothing.
I admit to some Japanese and German audio.
Now my light bulbs come have to come from Mexico.
Used to have a Phillips plant a mile away.
Every home is now required by law to have smoke and carbon monoxide detectors.
So by LAW, you must buy Chinese products.
Can't find a pair of North American runners, so bought Chinese Nike.
Can't find North American T shirts, so it's Bangladesh or eastern Europe.
But my socks-Made in USA
My Under Armor shorts-Made in Canada.
My Terra work boots-Made in Canada.
Even my garbage bags are Made in USA.
Now North America-look in the mirror, as you wallow in your cheap Chinese crap and tell me where the jobs went.
Mirror wins!
The mirror won the war.
I bought USA Curtis Mathis TVs until the end.
I bought USA/Canadian appliances.
I bought north American clothing.
I admit to some Japanese and German audio.
Now my light bulbs come have to come from Mexico.
Used to have a Phillips plant a mile away.
Every home is now required by law to have smoke and carbon monoxide detectors.
So by LAW, you must buy Chinese products.
Can't find a pair of North American runners, so bought Chinese Nike.
Can't find North American T shirts, so it's Bangladesh or eastern Europe.
But my socks-Made in USA
My Under Armor shorts-Made in Canada.
My Terra work boots-Made in Canada.
Even my garbage bags are Made in USA.
Now North America-look in the mirror, as you wallow in your cheap Chinese crap and tell me where the jobs went.
Mirror wins!
kkritsilas
Well-Known Member
Ramenth:
The CEO's job is to run his company. Part of that is to maximize profits, make shareholders happy, etc., but that is not the only part of his job. 3M, as a company, did not get to where they are, or last as long as they have, even with unions, because of CEOs who were looking solely at keeping Wallstreet happy. CEOs need to do their jobs, When unions start to make demands for wages and benefits, they need to say NO, and stick to it, whether the shareholders like it or not. Too often, CEOs have given in, in an attempt to buy labour peace, and we have the current situation. Unions exist in Europe as well, yet CEOs there still run their businesses well enough that the didn't need gov't handouts for the most part. CEOs need to do their jobs and run their companies; they are supposed to run their companies, not the unions or Feds.
There are as many quality problems created by bad design, stupid cost cutting, and lack of vendor quailty as there are by line workers crew ups. The recent air bag recall with millions of cars to be recalled because of the propellant used by the Japanese supplier absorbing moisture is a design issue, as is the ignition cylinder fiasco on GM's side. The premature rust out of the Chrysler sub frames/front suspension is also a design/Quality issue. Toyota's stuck accelerator recall was also a design issue. While the line workers do screw up, it is usually on a few thousands, or tens of thousands of cars. Design recalls usually invoke millions or even tens of millions of cars.
The CEO's job is to run his company. Part of that is to maximize profits, make shareholders happy, etc., but that is not the only part of his job. 3M, as a company, did not get to where they are, or last as long as they have, even with unions, because of CEOs who were looking solely at keeping Wallstreet happy. CEOs need to do their jobs, When unions start to make demands for wages and benefits, they need to say NO, and stick to it, whether the shareholders like it or not. Too often, CEOs have given in, in an attempt to buy labour peace, and we have the current situation. Unions exist in Europe as well, yet CEOs there still run their businesses well enough that the didn't need gov't handouts for the most part. CEOs need to do their jobs and run their companies; they are supposed to run their companies, not the unions or Feds.
There are as many quality problems created by bad design, stupid cost cutting, and lack of vendor quailty as there are by line workers crew ups. The recent air bag recall with millions of cars to be recalled because of the propellant used by the Japanese supplier absorbing moisture is a design issue, as is the ignition cylinder fiasco on GM's side. The premature rust out of the Chrysler sub frames/front suspension is also a design/Quality issue. Toyota's stuck accelerator recall was also a design issue. While the line workers do screw up, it is usually on a few thousands, or tens of thousands of cars. Design recalls usually invoke millions or even tens of millions of cars.
Jack Meoff
Mopar Maniac
You also have to remember that.....especially in this day and age a CEO's largest priority is keeping his job. How many CEO's has 3M gone through in their history?
My thinking is that a CEO whose looking out for his own ass is going to be the first guy to go with the idea of using a cheaper part on the line and gamble it'll be okay on millions of cars just so he can tell the brass and the shareholders that he just saved them a pile of money. Hence keep his own job rather than use a superior part at an even slightly higher cost.
My thinking is that a CEO whose looking out for his own ass is going to be the first guy to go with the idea of using a cheaper part on the line and gamble it'll be okay on millions of cars just so he can tell the brass and the shareholders that he just saved them a pile of money. Hence keep his own job rather than use a superior part at an even slightly higher cost.
That might not be a fair example....it is 0ne of 4 in all of North America...Jay leno has one, Mazda USA has one, This is Mazda Canada's, and there is one in Arizona not much is known about. This car is worth a retarded amount of cash ( think hemi car numbers). There are pristine Asian stuff out there too...my brothers neighbor has a mint z car from 72. I have a customer with a mint fb rx from 78 in ontario its whole life all original.
if Jay leno LOVES his cosmo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms5Zws6CXFs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms5Zws6CXFs
Jack Meoff
Mopar Maniac
First of all.....that is an exceptionally cool car.
Yes I'm a Mopar guy but I'm also a car guy.
I know there's survivors but I see Fifth's out there that are drivers out there doing it still through all four seasons. Seen Dips and a couple of Aspen's belive it or not. I've even seen a senior lady in an AMC Concord DL. Point being these cars might have been oil sprayed but never babied and they're still out there doing it. Gotta give some points to those M bodies.
It Kills me that the folks that I work with that CAN afford new cars are getting new Mitsu-Honda-Acura-Nissan-etc... when there are TWO american cars that are new in a lot full o foreign crap... and when they get them they put American stickers in the windows. I comment all the time, just buy a car made here - and I get sneers... and they make fun of Betsy.. I have 540k miles and I have dared one of them to match me... with no significant repairs I might add. 7 clutches - my fault - rebuilt the alternator when the diodes went out, and JUST replaced the starter. . . .
Dr Lebaron
Well-Known Member
After you have Mit Romney as CEO, then get back to me and discuss CEOs
kkritsilas
Well-Known Member
Companies have always had CEOs (defined athe the guy at which the buck stops). Long running companies, like 3M, AT&T, the car companies, IBM, etc. in the vast majority of cases, these have always been publicly traded companies, so have always had shareholder demands. What has changed? Companies used to want to make good products so that people would buy them, and keep coming back. To do this, companies would have CEOs (and upper management for that matter) who understood how and what their company did, who their customers were, how to look after their employees, and build a company that had good profits now, and in the future. That is how these companies have survived, and prospered for many years. Today, There are no real CEOs left. Let us take Chrysler then and now: in the days of our cars, the CEO (for the most part) was Lee Iacocca. I never liked the man myself, but he had the guts to make some hard decisions. He understood the car business, and what products were needed. Today, we have Sergio Marcchione. I know he came from Fiat, but he is completely out of touch with the U.S. market. Does he not understand that the Fiat 500 is a non-starte in the U.S.? Not only is it a non-starter, it is a competitor to the Dart. The hottest market right now is pickups. His understanding of the pickup truck market is pretty close to Zero (Fiat has never made trucks for the U.S. Market before they acquired Chrysler). How can this guy be an effective CEO of a U.S. car company? Often GM has CEOs that come out of the Finance/Accounting department. Pardon me? In the end, long term, appointing these types of people as CEOs will kill a company. In the absence of real products/understanding of your customers, you end up with a number of spreadsheet jockeys that make decisions based on numbers. There is no line on any spreadsheet that can assess the impact of lost sales because of some boneheaded CEO decision (see Chrysler cancelling the Dodge Caravan most recently).
Show me a line on any spreadsheet for lost sales due to reliability issues with current products. Yet these CEOs have no issue running their companies in a way that makes Wallstreet happy. A real CEO, for example Tim Cook of Apple, when asked about Research Kit (a chunk of software that allows the data for clinical trials to be gathered by iPhones) and its potential for profits said straight out, that it was never going to make a profit, Apple only wrote the software "because it was the right thing to do". This is how a CEO runs a company; he does things the way he wants them done to ensure the company's future. He runs his company; shareholders don't, Feds don't, and unions don't.
Show me a line on any spreadsheet for lost sales due to reliability issues with current products. Yet these CEOs have no issue running their companies in a way that makes Wallstreet happy. A real CEO, for example Tim Cook of Apple, when asked about Research Kit (a chunk of software that allows the data for clinical trials to be gathered by iPhones) and its potential for profits said straight out, that it was never going to make a profit, Apple only wrote the software "because it was the right thing to do". This is how a CEO runs a company; he does things the way he wants them done to ensure the company's future. He runs his company; shareholders don't, Feds don't, and unions don't.
8v-of-fury
Well-Known Member
FWIW,
My brother, girlfriend and I all daily 80's Volkswagen's. Consisting of an 84 2dr Jetta, an 88 4dr Jetta and an 84 4dr Jetta respectively and all three cars have over 500k kms on them. TCO for all three is well under $40k over a combined total of 18 years of driving/ownership. (including all maintenance and fuel/oil/wear parts)
What I mean to say is, all manufacturers had some good products back in the day, the day being pretty much pre-1995 haha.
My brother, girlfriend and I all daily 80's Volkswagen's. Consisting of an 84 2dr Jetta, an 88 4dr Jetta and an 84 4dr Jetta respectively and all three cars have over 500k kms on them. TCO for all three is well under $40k over a combined total of 18 years of driving/ownership. (including all maintenance and fuel/oil/wear parts)
What I mean to say is, all manufacturers had some good products back in the day, the day being pretty much pre-1995 haha.
