318 down

[Intrepolicious]

All good stuff AJ! You're helping a lot more than you think. Just gives me more to think about. It might very well be that I'm having multiple issues.

 

[Monkeyed]

If you have the 2bbl you can unscrew the cover on the top of it and dump fuel directly into the float bowls. I did that when my fuel pump failed, it would start up and run fine for a few seconds, and for as long as I kept putting gas in the bowl directly that way. Just don't overfill it. It isn't much bigger than a shot glass. Next time it dies on you you could try that and verify if you have a fuel delivery to the carb problem.

 

[cormir]

From my experience it sounds to me like you may have a flooding problem. Do you notice a strong smell of fuel when these episodes occur? Do you notice large amounts of black, foul-smelling exhaust when your engine dies? Or even when it's running? If these symptoms exists, I'd bet the needle is jammed in/out of its seat due to foreign matter of some sort.

 

[Intrepolicious]

If you have the 2bbl you can unscrew the cover on the top of it and dump fuel directly into the float bowls. I did that when my fuel pump failed, it would start up and run fine for a few seconds, and for as long as I kept putting gas in the bowl directly that way. Just don't overfill it. It isn't much bigger than a shot glass. Next time it dies on you you could try that and verify if you have a fuel delivery to the carb problem.

I've tried this and it really had no effect. I've actually tried it a couple times on different occasions when it's been acting up (priming the carb) and it has never helped get it started.

From my experience it sounds to me like you may have a flooding problem. Do you notice a strong smell of fuel when these episodes occur? Do you notice large amounts of black, foul-smelling exhaust when your engine dies? Or even when it's running? If these symptoms exists, I'd bet the needle is jammed in/out of its seat due to foreign matter of some sort.

I DO have a strong gas smell when she's acting up. I just figured that's from all the pumping and no starting. Haven't noticed any black smoke though. How do you check the needle, and/or un-stick it? Rebuild the carb?

 

[Intrepolicious]

I guess I need to quit trying to chance it, and use the GF's Honda until I can figure out what's going on. I took her out this morning after she started right up, and sat and warmed up in my driveway for a good 10-15 minutes running perfectly. And she even ran perfectly up to wal-mart where I went to pick up some items for the GF. Up till I pulled into the parking spot she sputtered out and died. So I just put her in park and went into wal-mart.

When I came back out (I reckon 10-15 minutes later) she started right up, and I proceeded to make my way back home. Got about 2 miles away from Walmart and she shuts down while on the road doing about 40mph. I muscle her off the road and there I sat for the next hour - hour and a 1/2 or so, cranking, fiddling, cranking and fiddling some more until eventually she started up again and I made my merry way home. Pull in the driveway at home and put her in park, this time she's idling nice and smooth. Running perfectly! So I just let her run... for a good 5 minutes more, while I'm standing here in my garage door watching her run... then she just cuts off again. Jump in and try to start her back up.. and nothing. Probably going to be another hour before that happens.

Keep in mind that the tank still has a little over 3/4 of a tank.

So here's my thoughts and guesses;

Either or all of

A. There's something in the gas (water, trash,) or air being sucked in at a line somewhere, like the jumper at the tank that AJ is suggesting (will require dropping the tank), and making its way up to the carb.

B. Something is getting hot. Either the carb is getting hot and "percolating" the fuel (like I've read about) or the coil is getting hot like my buddy over at my old Dodge forums suggested. I haven't been able to check for spark while it's hot yet, but that would explain it starting up after it cools down for a while -- getting the coil down to a cooler temperature to operate properly. OR.. the ECU is getting hot and malfunctioning the same way. (remember this car has had the lean burn setup removed and converted to ECU)

C. The fuel system is building up pressure and not venting properly. After she's been running for a while, I can take the gas cap off and it releases a whole bunch of pressure (like "whoooosshshsh") which leads me to believe there's some kind of vapor lock going on here. Maybe the pressure is to much for the old mechanical pump to fight and it starves the carb causing the shut down. After the pressure stabilizes for an hour or so, she'll start back up again. Hell, C could be causing A (a bunch of pressure causing air to be sucked in somewhere?)

D. Maybe the carb just needs to be rebuilt?

My FSM arrived today! The bummer is that it doesn't include the "Fuel System" or the "Emissions System"... I've got to get the "Engine Performance Manual" for that... ugh

 

[Intrepolicious]

Well, I think I ruled out the "something's getting hot" theory a few minutes ago. The car's been sitting for about 3 hours, nice and cool. I tried to start her up, and she started, but only ran for about 30 seconds before stalling.

 

[Intrepolicious]

Which means AJ's jumper suggestion is still a likely candidate. Now I did manage to run some of the gas out of the tank today. I need to get a piece of garden hose to siphon the rest out and pull the tank. The GF told me I better not cut our garden hose lol!

 

[rcmaniac791]

I DO have a strong gas smell when she's acting up

Have you pulled any of the spark plugs to see what they look like? If flooding/too much fuel is the issue, the plugs might be able to help you figure it out. Regardless if that is the issue or not, seeing the condition of the plugs may help.

 

[MiradaMegacab]

Leave the gas cap loose, allowing air to escape............

 

[Intrepolicious]

Have you pulled any of the spark plugs to see what they look like? If flooding/too much fuel is the issue, the plugs might be able to help you figure it out. Regardless if that is the issue or not, seeing the condition of the plugs may help.

I installed new plugs about a week ago

 

[Intrepolicious]

Leave the gas cap loose, allowing air to escape............

I've tried that.


Here's a couple videos I recorded while I had the car out yesterday.

 

[Intrepolicious]

 

[Intrepolicious]

 

[Intrepolicious]

^^^These 3 videos are in order. The 3rd video is after I got the car started and running stable (or so it seemed) then drove it home (about 5 miles) with no issues.

Then as you can see in the video, it's finally running smooth and idling like nothing happened, and like nothings wrong.

 

[Intrepolicious]

I installed new plugs about a week ago

I think the old plugs are still out in the garage somewhere. I'll see if I can get a pic.

 

[BudW]

Your videos were most helpful to me.

1. Crank time.
First of all, you can crank the starter for longer than you are – which I think will help the hard to start problem, a lot. These cars generally need to be cranked a bit more than you have been, to fire off.

You can crank for up to 30 seconds – but if you do crank that long, you need to allow starter to cool, before trying again (a min or so). 30 seconds is a long time and something else needs to be fixed if it generally takes that long.

I suspect only giving a second to crank, is too short to start car.

2. Missing vacuum lines
I didn't see any vacuum hoses at all, except for one going to brake booster(?)
Attached is copies from my '77 Wagon and '86 5th Ave. Both are 318 2-bbls.
The '77 would be more correct – and even then, not all needs to be re-attached.

'86

'77

The port going to Temp Sensor (on Air Cleaner) can be plugged (in Florida).
The PCV valve hose and hose going to distributor vacuum advance are both a must.
The OSAC valve can be bypassed (the '77 diagram could come with or without a OSAC valve and both are listed – which is confusing).
The EGR, CCEGR (either), CCEV, Vacuum Solenoid Valve*, Vacuum Amplifier* and Vacuum Reservoir* hoses (and part themselves) can be left undone – as long as ports on carburetor have been plugged. (* means I suspect these parts have already been discarded).

3. Idle Speed
Idle speed is a bit lot – but that might be fixed once vacuum hose dilemma has been fixed.

4. Service Manual
The older service manuals are split into two books. One for electrical and everything else. Go to your table of contents and see if it has group 14 (fuel) and 25 (emissions) – or does it only show group 8 (electrical)?
BudW

 

[Intrepolicious]

Your videos were most helpful to me.

I figured they'd help somehow

1. Crank time.
First of all, you can crank the starter for longer than you are – which I think will help the hard to start problem, a lot. These cars generally need to be cranked a bit more than you have been, to fire off.

You can crank for up to 30 seconds – but if you do crank that long, you need to allow starter to cool, before trying again (a min or so). 30 seconds is a long time and something else needs to be fixed if it generally takes that long.

I suspect only giving a second to crank, is too short to start car.

I've always tried to keep it under 15 - 20 seconds at a time to not overheat the starter. Then if I can't get it started after 10 -15 attempts, I'll let it rest and cool off. Usually, (for the few weeks that I've owned this car) if the engine is going to start, it'll start within the first 3-4 revolutions. Sometimes at the very first tap of the key when it's warm. 30 seconds seems way too long to have to crank the starter. Like you said, somethings wrong if you have to crank it that long to start it.

2. Missing vacuum lines
I didn't see any vacuum hoses at all, except for one going to brake booster(?)
Attached is copies from my '77 Wagon and '86 5th Ave. Both are 318 2-bbls.
The '77 would be more correct – and even then, not all needs to be re-attached.

The port going to Temp Sensor (on Air Cleaner) can be plugged (in Florida).
The PCV valve hose and hose going to distributor vacuum advance are both a must.
The OSAC valve can be bypassed (the '77 diagram could come with or without a OSAC valve and both are listed – which is confusing).
The EGR, CCEGR (either), CCEV, Vacuum Solenoid Valve*, Vacuum Amplifier* and Vacuum Reservoir* hoses (and part themselves) can be left undone – as long as ports on carburetor have been plugged. (* means I suspect these parts have already been discarded).

Thanks for the pics! With the lean burn setup removed, there's all kinds of things plugged off on the carburetor. The PCV and the dist vacuum advance hoses are there. Everything else looks like it's plugged off, although I am hearing a whistle when I rev it.

3. Idle Speed
Idle speed is a bit lot – but that might be fixed once vacuum hose dilemma has been fixed.

I had been playing with the idle screw while troubleshooting the stall/no start issue.

4. Service Manual
The older service manuals are split into two books. One for electrical and everything else. Go to your table of contents and see if it has group 14 (fuel) and 25 (emissions) – or does it only show group 8 (electrical)?
BudW

[/quote]
I know.. I figured that out after receiving the Chassis Body/Elec manual. The "Engine Performance" manual is on it's way.

The FSM for my '98 Intrepid (LH body -300M,Concorde,LHS) is split into like 6 or 7 books stacked to about a foot tall lol

 

[Intrepolicious]

Well guess what guys... Charlene decided to start up and stay running today. Running perfectly like nothing ever happened! Sound familiar? Yes, it's true! I do believe that now that I've ran the fuel down to a certain level in the tank, she'll operate normally.

I totally believe AJ on the jumper now. It's got to be, or this is some crazy coincidence. I'm going to test this theory by keeping no more than a half tank of gas for the next couple days.

Maybe now she'll stay running and I can get back to the steering and suspension fixes... those are more fun to work on

 

[cormir]

Couple things I noticed from your video. 1. Too many unplugged vacuum ports, and 2. The pump shot seems weak. So rule out flooding. But still, something is causing a restriction in fuel flow. Or, perhaps, an interruption in the spark such as a faulty ballast resistor. However, a short in the ignition system usually results in a backfire and loud exhaust pop. With a fuel shortage, the engine simply quietly dies. So your issue lies within your fuel system.

 

[Intrepolicious]

Couple things I noticed from your video. 1. Too many unplugged vacuum ports, and 2. The pump shot seems weak. So rule out flooding. But still, something is causing a restriction in fuel flow. Or, perhaps, an interruption in the spark such as a faulty ballast resistor. However, a short in the ignition system usually results in a backfire and loud exhaust pop. With a fuel shortage, the engine simply quietly dies. So your issue lies within your fuel system.

Thanks for the input. Everything that's unplugged seems to be unplugged because of the lean burn removal. The car was running great last night... I have a hunch that another member here nailed it right off the bat. Let's hope it continues to run great today.