318 LA Cam Swap Question

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IH8GMandFord

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What's up forum! I'm getting ready to work on the 1988 Gran Fury AHB & am considering slapping in a different cam since the front of the motor is torn down to the timing chain cover. It has the factory 318 4bbl. The cam I have is a MP .430"/ .450", 260/260 hydraulic flat tappet I bought 20 years ago. I also have a new Summit double roller chain.

So the question: can I do the cam swap without dropping the oil pan? Will it be a royal PITA to get it to reseal? The radiator, condenser, tranny cooler, and grill are removed w/ all accessories/ brackets.

Thanks for any and all input, as well as advice for the swap. I also have a new AVS2 and the Summit electronic ignition kit.
 
No need to drop the pan, will reseal easy enough with clean and prepped surfaces.
Don’t forget to upgrade intake, heads, and exhaust so you get some real performance benefits and not just a fun exhaust sound.
 
Sounds like nows the time to do it. Oil pan is never dropped to pull the front cover unless it's leaking and you're doing a lot of work in one shot.

There's no real reason to change the intake since it's already 4bbl.
 
Camtron said:
No need to drop the pan, will reseal easy enough with clean and prepped surfaces.
Don’t forget to upgrade intake, heads, and exhaust so you get some real performance benefits and not just a fun exhaust sound.
Click to expand...
I'm gonna leave the factory AHB (360) heads on it, but have new seals & the correct Isky springs w/ dampeners. I also planned on reusing the factory intake, but I do have a Wieand Steath intake (was for the 360 I'm rebuilding) and an Eddy LD340 that needs to be welded.
I was also going to run my factory AHB exhaust manifolds, but have the local bend & welder put in dual exhaust that exits in front of the rear wheels. Headers that fit good are expensive & my TTIs are going on the 360.
I want to use stuff I already have & spend as little as possible.

I'm just worried that I'm gonna try to put in the cam and then it leaks oil like a sieve, or worse, not go back together. I'm gonna do this in my driveway w/ my kid.
 
Mikes5thAve said:
Sounds like nows the time to do it. Oil pan is never dropped to pull the front cover unless it's leaking and you're doing a lot of work in one shot.

There's no real reason to change the intake since it's already 4bbl.
Click to expand...
I was gonna pull the intake to make my cam removal/ install easier, as well as stabbing the new dizzy. I have a cleaned up 4bbl intake from my old 1984 Gran Fury AHB that I was gonna install. Same as the 1988, I think?

So do you just wedge in the front oil pan/ timing chain seal in or do you tilt it on the crank? Any tricks you can share?

Thanks, brother! -Jason
 
Isn't 88 a roller motor? Hydraulic flat tappet cam? Are you re using the old roller lifters or are you converting to old school flat tappet lifters?
 
IH8GMandFord said:
I was gonna pull the intake to make my cam removal/ install easier, as well as stabbing the new dizzy. I have a cleaned up 4bbl intake from my old 1984 Gran Fury AHB that I was gonna install. Same as the 1988, I think?

So do you just wedge in the front oil pan/ timing chain seal in or do you tilt it on the crank? Any tricks you can share?

Thanks, brother! -Jason
Click to expand...

You have to pull the intake to get to the lifters anyway. Yes intake is the same but from what some people have said the hole for the choke isn't tapped since they didn't use it past 1984 (quadrajet was different choke setup).

The timing chain gasket set comes with little chunks of oil pan gasket, use gasket sealer to attach them to the front of the pan and then put the cover on. It might not be a bad idea to put some rtv on the corners where the pan meets the block and timing cover to fill any potential gaps there.
 
your biggest worry is the cam and lifters getting wiped out. today's oil does not lend well with fresh lifters/cams
 
Shorty Thompson said:
Exactly. Went roller in '86
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There was strangeness to it, I think AHB's got it later and 4bbl ones might not have got it at all. But it's been a while since I've messed with them.

The provisions should be there either way for it so it might be worthwhile looking at roller cams.
 
So I was genuinely curious about roller vs non roller in '88, so I busted out my '88 parts book...

20250927_142138.jpg

looks like in 88 you could still get a non roller 318! Today I Learned!
 
The block should be roller capable. You'll know if there are threaded pedestals down the center of the lifter galley. This is what holds the tappet retaining plate in place.

The real bad epidemic of flat tappet cam failures has a lot to do with the shit machining on the crown of the lifters. With your kit being from 20 years ago I wouldn't worry about it. Toss a bottle of ZDDP in the oil and go through the standard break-in procedure.
 
ELE engine is a non-roller block. Period.

Use the newer Chrysler intake, unless you go with a carb that has a divorced choke, like the TQ.

You can try to do this without pulling the pan, but I've never done it that way. If you're doing that much work to it, pull the pan and replace all the gaskets and core plugs, which seem to go bad on the '88-'89 cars. Check a few rod and main bearings to see if you need to roll some new ones in. Do it right.

The heads are actually specific to the car. In '83, they went from the old 587 castings (from the E58) to the 345 castings. Only real difference was larger coolant passages. They were only used on the ELE. Nothing really special about them otherwise, they're a basic LA J-head.

The cam is very close to the old 340 spec (.429/.444), which should wake it up a little bit on the highway. It won't help any off the line, because of the low compression ratio. Same is true of headers. If you want a little better flow, find a set of Magnum 318 or 360 exhaust manifolds off a '93-'98 Jeep ZJ (not the pickups). They'll bolt right up. Or, grab the whole damn engine, if it has decent miles and tests out good. Lots more power, cheap.

One thing to be mindful of is the E48, E58, and ELE all specified a base timing of 16° BTDC, using a dual-pickup distributor. I'd start around 9° with the single pick-up, and shoot for 32-34° mechanical, and ideally at least 50° BTDC all-in, at 4400 RPM. The ELE was handicapped by a very conservative timing schedule in the computer. If memory serves, I had pretty good luck running them between 9-12° BTDC base timing with regular electronic ignition. You just have to watch and listen to it. If she cranks hard or pings, you have to adjust the base timing or adjust the vacuum canister on the distributor.

Exhaust, the old formula used to be to get the A-body exhaust kit from Summit and run it all straight out the back (you slide the tank over a notch). It came with an H-pipe, which helps with torque (the ELE makes less torque than the ELA/ELD 2bbl). Running them out the side is half-assed. Do it right.
 
AHBguru said:
ELE engine is a non-roller block. Period.
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I didn't say it's a roller, only roller capable. Chrysler introduced 318 blocks with roller provisions in 1985. Would seem a bit silly to cast two different blocks after three years of production when the roller block is capable of running a flat tappet.
 
Duke5A said:
I didn't say it's a roller, only roller capable. Chrysler introduced 318 blocks with roller provisions in 1985. Would seem a bit silly to cast two different blocks after three years of production when the roller block is capable of running a flat tappet.
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The ELE was the same old 318 flat tappet block they used from 1980 and up. No provision for rollers. Only reason I can think of that they didn't switch to a roller block for the ELE was cost, but the only "cost" involved was less power, for what was - by then - an obsolete engine.

The ELA/ELD became a roller block from '85 and up. In the M-body, it was 2bbl only. This one had the good 9.0 compression "302" heads. Oddly, the 360 didn't get rollers and 9.0 until '89 (308 heads).
They were slowly improving everything, but the pickups got most of the good stuff. They didn't want to spend anything on the M-bodies.
 
If you're going to do the extra work of pulling the oil pan, checking bearings and replacing other parts you might as well leave it as-is and start looking into a different engine that will get you more power to begin with.
 
Mikes5thAve said:
If you're going to do the extra work of pulling the oil pan, checking bearings and replacing other parts you might as well leave it as-is and start looking into a different engine that will get you more power to begin with.
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Yep. 318 Magnum, swap intakes, bolt her up and go.

360 Magnum, you need the specific weight on the torque converter and a 3/4" nut (or equivalent) spacer for the left engine mount. Swap the intake, away you go.

For either Magnum, you have to use an electric fuel pump off a relay. Those engines don't have the fuel pump eccentric on the cam snoot. The later ('85-'91 318/'89-'92 360) roller engines do, so those are a slightly easier swap.
 
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