383, A sense of direction

Duke5A

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Question:
Worth it to reuse factory radiator and pick up a water pump with a right hand lower hose? Or, should I just plan on getting a new radiator to use with a water pump with a left hand lower hose? Any PS clearance issues moving the lower hose to the left side?
What did you do, would you do it differently knowing what you know now?

Ps. I do not plan on keeping A/C in the car.

I used a 440 Source pump housing that dumps to the passenger side for that exact reason. I had already purchased an aluminum radiator for the car that I ran with a small block and didn't want to replace it. I also used a 440 Source aluminum timing chain cover that has no timing marks on it, so you have to use one of their timing pointers.

The above configuration does not work. Their timing pointer interferes with the pump housing. I can ballpark my timing, but it isn't precise. Now, it might work just fine with a factory stamped steel timing cover. I don't know.

Honestly though, that old factory two core radiator is not going to keep up with a stroked big block. I would replace it at the same time and keep the regular BB water pump layout that dumps on the driver's side.

As far as power steering goes as long as your're using factory brackets you'll have no issues.
 

BudW

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There is a lot of topics here to discuss.

Many years back (I’ve had my ’86 Fifth Ave for about fifteen years, now) I’ve struggled on what to do with existing engine or what to transplant it with.
First thing I thought of was to install a 4-bbl, camshaft and free flowing exhaust to existing 318 (which is now a stock 2-bbl, still).
Then thought about installing a 360 in place of existing 318.
A few months later, I traded my brother for a 340 block and was thinking about installing a built 340 into car, but later decided not to (and traded the 340 back to him).
A Magnum 360 and a stroked 360 was also considered somewhere in period of trying to make up my mind.

I want a car to be fun to drive around town in and something wife could drive (if wanted) without having to complain to me on how it drives (she wants it to start, run and get to point A to B without ANY concern) – so I figured the best way to do that was a engine with lots of (tons of) power down low, fuel injection (for drivability), no shifting (ie: automatic transmission) and for car to be QUIET.
For the most part most, small blocks need higher RPM’s to start producing power (for a heavyweight M-body) and that just didn’t calculate into what I needed.

What I finally decided on was to get a 400 (LB) and stroke it a bit, and that should meet all my criteria for wife (and myself) to be happy.
The 383 and 400 blocks/engines are almost identical, except for the bore size. The 383 (in stock or modified form) is a "quick to rev" engine and it likes the RPM’s. Most stock HP 383’s kept up with, if not faster in some cases than most stock 440’s were – until emissions hit the cars. Also, there is as many 383’s made as there are 318’s out there, so finding a good 383 block is somewhat easy. There are far more 383’ s made than all other Chrysler big blocks (combined).

When I finally made my decision, I had, in my garage at the time, a police 318, a pair of 360’s, a ’70 V-code 440 (out of my ’70 300/H), a 440/727 out of a motor home, ’73 400/727, a NOS 400 and a NOS 440 short block. I sent my ’73 400 bare block and a piston to machine shop and that shop went out of business – so not sure where my block is at. I sense found another NOS 400 short block (traded my NOS 440 short block for it) – so if I don’t ever get my ’73 block back, I’m OK (but not happy).

I also obtained two stroker crank kits from 440 Source (3.915” stroke) which is about 465 ci. I wanted to keep the rod-to-stroke ratio between 1.65-1.70 (1.66 in this case). I plan on driving these engines daily, so why bore out a brand-new block (or blocks, in this case)? To keep the stock bores as is, I had new Diamond pistons made for the engines, that are moly/ceramic coated.
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With my new 440 Source Stealth heads, I should have a calculated (not yet measured) compression ratio of 9.57:1. The goal for my engine is top RPM of 5500-6000 and for it to start starving for air around 5500 (I never have liked high RPM’s – but that is where most engines tend to make the most power at). I found two sets of C-body HP exhaust manifolds (for noise level) and Edelbrock 2186 Performer Intake(s).

I currently have one set each of aluminum water pump housings (Left and Right exit) and not decided on which one – yet.
Both engines will have A/C.

The only thing I hadn’t decided on yet is camshaft and related parts. My goal is to have peak torque as down low as I can get it.

The wagon will have the existing A904 tossed out and either a 5 or a 6-speed manual put in its place. I prefer shifting – but wife doesn’t, so the Fifth Ave will have a A518 installed using a JW Performance Ultra Bell (p/n 92457) installed ($500 US).
JW Performance Ultra Bell 92460.jpg

Both cars will have 8¾” which I will start rebuilding them this spring. I will make threads for each of these projects when the times come.

A bit more parts gathering to do and I refuse to go into debt over this project (or projects).

As far as getting the engine installed, I also have a plan – but I also have two cars that doing similar modifications too. First, I was going to get measurements from car after getting ride height set correctly, from all 4 K-frame mounts and transmission mount to make a pair of K-frame carts. I was also going to measure the centerline of crankshaft at front of engine and at output shaft. That way I get the engine transmission installed in correct position. I have (or had – just waiting on replacement to get back to me) a spare V8 K-frame/front suspension. Was going to modify the K-frame for engine, then get it heavily reinforced. Rebuild the suspension, then place engine/transmission onto my cart.

When time comes to change the engine (which should be done in a weekend), I was going insert one cart under existing 318/A904/suspension/exhaust and unbolt it from chassis. Raise the body up and roll one assembly out from under car and wheel the other into its place. Drop body down and presto – one car done. Then repeat for the other car after rebuilding suspension and modifying the next K-frame.

One of the items I don’t have worked out yet, is what to do about the engine oil filter. It is impossible to change a big block oil filter car from under the car. The battery (if applicable), torsion bars, P/S pump (if applicable) and radiator hose (if using a Right exit water pump housing) can make regular oil changes a pain. I’m thinking about fitting an external oil filter to driver’s side inner fender area using an oil pump housing like this:
Milodon 21225.jpg

Then incorporating an automatic transmission external oil filter setup on the passenger side inner fender (a mirror of driver’s side) – but that is a different topic.
BudW
 

Camtron

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Man, so much good info. Thank you all very much.
Am I understanding correctly that a A518 can go behind a big block if the JW performance bell house is used? I’d much prefer a a518 over a 727 if that’s the case/possibility. Extra gear and OD never hurts. I guess that would now make my next question: would a a518 hold up as well or better than a 727? While I don’t plan on running the drivetrain super hard, I definitely would like something that can handle a good stab of the gas pedal on the occasion.
I had mentioned that I know a few of you have been around the block a few times when it comes to builds. I haven’t. If I can use enough of your experience and knowledge to avoid buying multiple of the same parts because I got the wrong one or, engines, transmissions and making general mistakes that others have already made, I’ll be one happy camper.

Thanks again, everyone. I really appreciate it.
 
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Aspen500

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I have to remove the fan and shroud to change the oil filter in my car. Could do it by removing the battery and tray but the other way is easier (and lighter on my old back than a battery, lol). Not a huge deal since it's only a once a year winter operation but, it is a project.

I've got a 440 Source passenger side outlet pump housing so I don't need plumbing running across the car from one side to the other. It does get in the way of the timing tab though. I marked TDC on the pump housing so checking timing isn't a problem with an advance timing light.

Hardest part about building the stroker 440 was putting the 440 Source parts in an engine. They should be hanging on a wall as art! Same thing when I got the SS adjustable roller rocker kit from PRW. Seemed a shame to put them in an engine and then hide them with valve covers.:eek:
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Duke5A

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A 518 is a 727, just with an additional gear. Been living behind my 512 for the last couple of years now happily as a street machine. The Ultra Bell works well too - installation will make your ass pucker a little bit.

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Duke5A

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If you're looking at such a long time to accumulate parts then why not stick a BB in the car with a factory rotating assembly? You don't need to buy all these parts at once. You can take it in steps and enjoy the car.
 

Camtron

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If you're looking at such a long time to accumulate parts then why not stick a BB in the car with a factory rotating assembly? You don't need to buy all these parts at once. You can take it in steps and enjoy the car.
Absolutely an option to keep driving it. Just get the engine and a trans together and throw them in the car to enjoy While I finish getting parts.
Me mentioning just out right parking the car was a little bit of an overreaction and negativity shining through. I have to have roughly 20% of my right lung removed pretty soon and will be down and out for awhile. Parking the car for a few months is inevitable.
Buying the short block was actually an attempt to give myself something to look forward to and raise my spirits in a sense. I’ve been dealing with so many things I don’t want to do that, I just wanted to give myself a little something, ya know?
I’m sure I’ll keep driving it when I’m back in my feet and while getting parts together.
 

BudW

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There have been quite a few people at FBBO and FEBO using big blocks behind the A518 w/Ultra Bell.
Duke5A will most likely have more HP than I will, so if it will hold up to him, I shouldn’t have any problems. I've been inside of hundreds (thousands?) of Chrysler transmissions including the overdrives, so know my way around them. The only thing I worry about is the seven small bolts that attach the bell to the transmission. Others haven’t experienced any problems there, so I think its nothing to worry about.

I like the 3.23 (or 3.21) gear ratio, but with overdrive, I’ve been thinking about moving to a 3.55, maybe. There are several 8¾” carriers in my garage – so changing gear ratios is not that hard to do.

Sense I drive my vehicles, the engine oil/filters get changed in everything in my fleet, every April and September – but that’s just me. I will figure out something with an external engine oil filter. This is a rough sketch I made 2.5 years ago. The area is mostly hidden and unused yet has better access than removing the battery and/or fan blade.
20171116_113848 R.jpg

This is looking inside L/F wheel towards the grill.


Note: I will be going electric fans and that is something I need to do before swapping blocks.
The three possibility’s I have so far are:
1995-2002 Ford Contour Fan (they make a single and dual motor version).
Contour fan Front.jpg
Front
Contour fan  Back.jpg
Back
V6 Ford Contour Fan.jpg

A big block in an FMJ. The pink X is the oil filter.


2001-2007 Mercedes C-class

MB Fan.jpg

6035928-MBFan.jpg

In an A-body (but should be about the same in an FMJ)

New style Charger/300 (no pictures yet, but there is a recent thread about it in our forums).
I need to spend some time at a pull-a-part – but not done that yet. I would rather have a dual fan setup so the water pump & pulley is not in same location as fan motor will be at.

The Mercedes fan will require a special setup to get fan to work correctly (more electronics to hide). Not investigated what is needed for either the Contour or Charger fan motor (yet).
BudW
 

Duke5A

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What converter do you use?

That's kind of a long story. I'm running a Turbo Action 17809ST designed to fit a lockup input shaft, but lacks the lockup internals. My 518 is a lockup 3-wire unit. I originally ran this converter behind my 360 and decided to give it a go on the 512 as it's advertised as a tight converter. On the street it drives great and I don't have any issues with part throttle response seeming spongy. On the chassis dyno though the motor torque curve lacked the distinctive broad flat curve stroker motors are known for. After a lot of back and forth the consensus is the motor is driving right through it. Need some track time to confirm, but as far as street is concerned, it's great. Transmission never gets hotter than 180.
 

Duke5A

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View attachment 39273
A big block in an FMJ. The pink X is the oil filter.

Bud, that's my car. I can't recommend this setup enough. Has no problem keeping the motor right at 180 degrees on a hot summer day with a three row, 26" Champion radiator.

You're fueling injecting the car, right? I have a Holley Sniper driving the low and high speed on that fan. Just need a couple high amp relays for the two speeds and a 60 amp wedge fuse to protect it.

Got the idea from a Moparts member. Somewhere he has a really nice guide for setting the entire thing up. I can try and find it if you want.
 

Oldiron440

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That's kind of a long story. I'm running a Turbo Action 17809ST designed to fit a lockup input shaft, but lacks the lockup internals. My 518 is a lockup 3-wire unit. I originally ran this converter behind my 360 and decided to give it a go on the 512 as it's advertised as a tight converter. On the street it drives great and I don't have any issues with part throttle response seeming spongy. On the chassis dyno though the motor torque curve lacked the distinctive broad flat curve stroker motors are known for. After a lot of back and forth the consensus is the motor is driving right through it. Need some track time to confirm, but as far as street is concerned, it's great. Transmission never gets hotter than 180.
"Driving through it" is a problem with converters and big torque motors.
 

Aspen500

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Bud, where you show putting a remote oil filter near the front bumper "shock" is exactly where I had the one on my car in it's previous configuration. I had a dual filter setup but that's kind of overkill (JMO). Since I only manage 1,000 miles or so per year (mostly weather limited), I can put up with the filter changing hassle every loooooooong winter season. Gives me an excuse to clean areas you can't get to with the fan and shroud in place.:D
 

Camtron

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With the clearance hangups on the driver side of the engine compartment, it about makes me wish there were right hand drive versions of our cars floating around lol.
Like this late 60s import Cuda; just look at all that room.

I’ll add relocating the battery to the trunk to my list. open up the extra front and shift a little weight to the right rear corner to compensate a little for the offset gas tank.
With the 3 wire 518, do you have a switch in the cab for O/D or is it just wired on with the ignition? With the torque out put on a stroker, would it be worth considering getting with my local torque converter shop for a build? They’re pretty reputable and do heavy duty and race builds/repair. Or would that just be over kill?
 

Camtron

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In the bag; err the trunk rather.
The KYB gas a just shocks don’t feel too bad on the rear end with an extra 330lbs in the trunk.

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BudW

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Relocating the battery to trunk is fine for a 2 or a 4-door car (and is the plans for my Fifth Ave) and is preferred. It is a no-no for station wagons, though (unless you find a way to seal it off from the interior and plumb the fumes out of the car).


“If” it will be a while before you can do things, put the block (and other engine parts) in a thick plastic back to protect it from moisture and from varmints. I must bag (or vacuum bag) stuff because of the high humidity here for things will start to rust very quick. I can’t tell you how many thousands of $ I’ve lost because of rust even when items are well away from the weather.

I have 4 engine blocks on (cheap ($10) Harbor Freight) hardwood dolly’s (one each) that have been oiled down and bagged using engine/block bags. The blocks are laying transmission side down and are easy to move around that way. I’ve purchased a few engine bag sets (entire engine, block, crank, heads) for about $15 (or so) that are thick (4 mil).
image_18681.jpg

If not sure what is or where to get engine bags, go to someplace like Summit and search.

You don’t have to answer this, but you didn’t put that block into and out of your trunk, by yourself, did you?
BudW
 

Camtron

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Oh god no. Engine hoist going in the trunk, engine hoist coming back out.
 

Aspen500

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Even in the trunk of a coupe or sedan, you should use a battery with provisions for a vent tube to the outside. There are a lot of batteries like that now since a good portion of newer vehicles have the battery in the trunk, or under a panel in the floor, or under the back seat so one that works shouldn't be a problem. I actually have a battery for an Audi in mine with a vent tube running down under the car. That way all the battery fumes won't cause any corrosion problems. Why an Audi battery? Well, I worked at the dealer at the time and they're EXCELLENT batteries that easily last more than 10 years, no problem. It's now 8 years old and load tests as new yet. Yes I know, the terminals are reversed so sue me.:D

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