WANTED 77 Volare rear leaf springs

[BudW]

They made 3 different small block timing covers:

‘69 down.
’70 to '91 (until magnum redesign).
Then the magnum timing covers ('92 to '03) are the 3rd design.

All three will interchange – as long as you have the appropriate brackets to go with the cover.

Edit: Small block is referring to 273, 318, 340 and 360 ci.
I forgot the mention. The difference of ’69 down vs. ’70 up is the water pump neck is on other ends (Left vs. Right) and timing marks are on other end of water pump neck.

The magnum timing cover is somewhat close to the ’70 up cover, but has no provision for the fuel pump.

 

[Leizurtime]

They made 3 different small block timing covers:

‘69 (or ’70 – I can’t remember) down (timing marks on wrong side).
’71 (or ’70) up - until magnum redesign.
Then the magnum timing covers are 3rd design.

All three will interchange – as long as you have the appropriate brackets to go with the cover.

Edit: Small block is referring to 273, 318, 340 and 360 ci.

Okay, my car is a 77 and i went and pulled it off of a 77 van, so i think I'm good

 

[Leizurtime]

And when i get the gasket set for the cover, should i get the set with the sleeve or without?

 

[BudW]

That’s the one.

Feel the front crank sealing surface of your harmonic balancer. If you feel any kind of a depression or anything along the surface, then get a micro-sleeve.
For some reason the softer stationary rubber seal seams to wear a grove in the harder rotating cast iron.

 

[BudW]

If you wanted to know, Dorman makes a new aftermarket replacement timing cover, for if needed to replace one – one might want to at least look at it.
Dorman 635-400

While there, you might want to look at the timing chain for play. Most of these engines had plastic tooth timing gears, which like to wear out, if not break apart. Granted plastic is quieter, but just do not last anywhere as long as steel does.
Factory specifications are 3/16” play or less. Anything more is bad.

If one was looking at replacing the timing chain, you might also want to look at this. Chrysler used these in newer engines and I will not put together a small block without one.

P5007709 (picture swiped from eBay)

The way I look at this, is I like to do it one time.
I would not be happy if I changed the timing cover then a few months later, had to replace the timing chain.

Be sure to clean out the water pump holes very well. They like to be full of corrosion (from seeping water pump gasket) – which in turn causes broken water pump bolts – which make removing the water pump or timing cover VERY FUN (not).
I have been there way too many times.

BudW

 

[Leizurtime]

Yea, i found the Dorman in a couple of places online for almost $100. There was a new timing cover on eBay for around $50, not sure what brand. This one i paid $25 for as i opted for an economy option and yes, already bought an HD timing set figured i might as well replace it while everything is off

 

[Leizurtime]

Okay, so today I went to get her up and running, unfortunately I was only able to do a pad slap on the front while I had the wheels off. I experienced a problem trying to bleed the brakes. I will note that when I pulled the calipers I also disconnected the brake line at the caliper.

After reassembly, I started at the wheel closest to the master cylinder, as I was taught to do. I had a friend pump up the brakes and press it to the floor with the bleeder screw engaged. I then released the bleeder screw, after several attempts and nothing came out the bleeder screw.

I noticed that one brake line had a leaky seal so I pulled it apart and found the little copper washer was on the wrong spot, so I put it together correctly and this fixed a leak happening during the bleeding process. Right after this my friend complained that the pedal was stuck on the floor, it seems that it stays depressed mostly.

At this time there's hardly no pedal and its sunk to the floor. I'm certain the front system is full of air. Not sure what I did wrong, my Haynes manual says to start at the passenger side rear wheel and begin from there. Exact opposite as I was taught, but I don't know maybe these cars are different somehow. Next step I'm considering is getting a bleeder kit and doing it right. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

 

[BudW]

Unless you have some weird “X” system (a HUGE amount of Chryslers are front/rear brake system - including all FMJ’s, and not X) - then you always start bleeding brakes at wheel farthest from brake master cylinder (R/R in your case) working to the one closest to master cylinder (L/F).

Otherwise you can end up with a huge air pocket or worse, get air in the master cylinder.
You have to keep the master cylinder topped off - which means constant checking. Correction: constant constant constant constant checking.

 

[Leizurtime]

I did keep the reservoir topped off and I did check it periodically and refill it. I have performed this procedure before, just never on this car. So if there is air in the master cylinder I have to bleed that first? I've never done that before, is there a bleeder port below the master cylinder? I will buy a bleeder kit from the parts place, they're only like $30

 

[Leizurtime]

While there, you might want to look at the timing chain for play. Most of these engines had plastic tooth timing gears, which like to wear out, if not break apart. Granted plastic is quieter, but just do not last anywhere as long as steel does.
Factory specifications are 3/16” play or less. Anything more is bad.

If one was looking at replacing the timing chain, you might also want to look at this. Chrysler used these in newer engines and I will not put together a small block without one.
View attachment 16866
P5007709 (picture swiped from eBay)

The way I look at this, is I like to do it one time.
I would not be happy if I changed the timing cover then a few months later, had to replace the timing chain.

Be sure to clean out the water pump holes very well. They like to be full of corrosion (from seeping water pump gasket) – which in turn causes broken water pump bolts – which make removing the water pump or timing cover VERY FUN (not).
I have been there way too many times.

BudW

Okay so I'm out here doing the timing chain work and I'm pretty certain it needs to be replaced by the slack in it good call BudW and WOW, when i pulled off the original timing cover look how clean it is compared to the one i got from the junkyard, which I've had to scrub with parts cleaner. It's a good indication that this engine has the original 92,000 miles on it.

I got a Melling double roller timing set. The manual says to put the no. 6 cylinder @ TDC to set the timing for the cam. Which i did by looking at the distributor rotor position. But it appears the original timing set has only one dot on the cam gear. Can't find any dot on the crank sprocket. Anyone ever notice this before? The cam gear dot appears to be correct, it's @ the 6 o'clock position. There should be a dot on the crank sprocket at 12 o'clock position, but i took a good look at it and can't see any dot. Maybe it was put on backwards?

 

[Leizurtime]

Got the new timing set on and she's a beaut, was having a hell of a time trying to get the cover on with all the gaskets. I messed up for too long and the silicon dried up on me. I had to get a whole new gasket set plus the brakes are still disagreeing with me. Pedal is locked on the floor. Bought a Phoenix systems reverse bleeder and started at the rear passenger wheel. Couldn't push no fluid through, it was locked. I've read of a condition in some iron master cylinders that if a little air gets trapped inside of it this can create a point of vacuum inside that the piston spring can't recover from. Probably needs to be pulled and bench bleed. When i attempted the reverse bleed, first i used a turkey baster to pull out some of the fluid in the cylinder, i noticed some debris in it too

 

[BudW]

Keeping the engine oil changed often results in a clean engine.
Not keeping the engine oil changed = sludge and parts that require a lot of cleanup.
I’ve seen engines with 3 years/50k miles on them with 15 pounds of sludge in them and engines 30 years/300k miles that is as clean as a whistle inside.

I’ve always hated (err, disliked) working on sludge buckets. First you have to scrape to find the bolts, then tool and part clean up afterwards, takes a lot of time.
Keeping it clean does more than increase engine lifespan. It also saves time in cleaning.


Get a brake master cylinder bleeder kit from a parts store. It will come with 2 short pieces of clear tubing, a couple of cheap plastic fittings (or more) and a clip to attach to master cylinder cap.

Disconnect the lines at master cylinder. As long as the petal is up and wheel side bleeders are all closed – you won’t lose much fluid. If you disconnect the lines, you should be able to pick the brake petal up to normal position.

Attach the kit per instructions, and bench bleed the master cylinder still attached to booster (in car).
Reconnect lines and start bleeding process from scratch, again.

 

[Leizurtime]

Went ahead and picked up a Remanufactured MC. It has to be better than what's in it and it even comes with a bleeder kit I'm ready for round 3

 

[BudW]

I can say this is the first time I’ve seen a brake master cylinder with a view of the universe behind it!


I didn’t look, did your car come with a cast iron master cylinder or an aluminum one (with black fluid reservoir attached to it)?

Nothing wrong with either design, other than aluminum is lighter and a bit smaller.
The two different designs do not directly interchange (iron has 4 bolt flange and aluminum has 2 bolt flange).

 

[Leizurtime]

I can say this is the first time I’ve seen a brake master cylinder with a view of the universe behind it!


I didn’t look, did your car come with a cast iron master cylinder or an aluminum one (with black fluid reservoir attached to it)?

Nothing wrong with either design, other than aluminum is lighter and a bit smaller.
The two different do not directly interchange (iron bolt and aluminum has 2 bolt flange).

Haha, i thought you guys might get a kick out of that, it's the screen saver on my computer. It is the cast iron design.

 

[Leizurtime]

Keeping the engine oil changed often results in a clean engine.

Get a brake master cylinder bleeder kit from a parts store. It will come with 2 short pieces of clear tubing, a couple of cheap plastic fittings (or more) and a clip to attach to master cylinder cap.

Disconnect the lines at master cylinder. As long as the petal is up and wheel side bleeders are all closed – you won’t lose much fluid. If you disconnect the lines, you should be able to pick the brake petal up to normal position.

Attach the kit per instructions, and bench bleed the master cylinder still attached to booster (in car).
Reconnect lines and start bleeding process from scratch, again.

So you can bench bleed with the Master Cylinder still in the car? Just using the brake pedal instead of a screwdriver or something. Everywhere I have researched, including the instructions from the MC box and my Haynes manual for the car say to put the MC in a vice and press the piston with a screw driver or something. It seems that mounting it and using the brake pedal is the same concept. As long as the hoses stay submerged and all the air is purged.

Also, seemingly hard to find item. The Plymouth logo that appears on the rear hatch, I'm trying to locate one if anyone has an extra. Thanks guys. Went to work on her today and someone was parked in front of the garage where it is stored, I couldn't get in feeling kind of peeved. Going back tomorrow, owner of the property is suppose to clear it out for me.

 

[BudW]

So you can bench bleed with the Master Cylinder still in the car?

The goal is you want the master cylinder to be level so air bubbles get out.
Some (other) car makes have the brake master cylinder in car at an angle on purpose (and I don’t know the purpose). Most of the Mopars I’ve ever worked on, the brake master cylinder was sitting in car level.

As long as car is not on jack stands in front only or car is at some goofy angle, I think you may be ok bench bleeding it in car, if you want.

 

[Leizurtime]

The goal is you want the master cylinder to be level so air bubbles get out.
Some (other) car makes have the brake master cylinder in car at an angle on purpose (and I don’t know the purpose). Most of the Mopars I’ve ever worked on, the brake master cylinder was sitting in car level.

As long as car is not on jack stands in front only or car is at some goofy angle, I think you may be ok bench bleeding it in car, if you want.

The car is sitting on 4 jack stands. I suppose I could get a level and adjust accordingly. I don't have a bench with a vice. Thank you BudW

 

[eespeed]

If you are still looking, I have the leaf springs from a '76 & '79.

 

[Leizurtime]

If you are still looking, I have the leaf springs from a '76 & '79.

As a matter of fact I am, are either the 5 leaf spring wagon version?