Advice On My 80 Volare Duster

[Rifleshooter]

Are you saying you already snapped them?
Or are you thinking ahead to the probability,lol?

Is the manifold already on the bench?

I purchased a 2bbl intake manifold, cleaned it up and made it pretty, all that's left is to take the old 1bbl off and I'm prepping ahead because if I can help it I'd very much prefer not to snap those bolts.

 

[AJ/FormS]

Ok. I guess the manifolds are still on the engine then. That will make my next suggestion all the more difficult. You kindof need to determine where they are stuck; in the tunnels or in the casting.I think there are three bolts. It's been over 20 years since I had one off, I thought they had to come off and go on as an assembly. I also thought the bolts went in from the underside and screwed into the bottom of the intake, Is that right? Or maybe mine were studs and that is why I had to take them off together. I'll go look for some pics.

 

[Rifleshooter]

Ok. I guess the manifolds are still on the engine then

Correct, the new intake manifold will fit with the old exhaust manifold, I measured it all and it'll fit

 

[Rifleshooter]

Ok. I guess the manifolds are still on the engine then. That will make my next suggestion all the more difficult. You kindof need to determine where they are stuck; in the tunnels or in the casting.I think there are three bolts. It's been over 20 years since I had one off, I thought they had to come off and go on as an assembly. I also thought the bolts went in from the underside and screwed into the bottom of the intake, Is that right? Or maybe mine were studs and that is why I had to take them off together. I'll go look for some pics.

The portion that the bolts go through the intake manifold are non threaded but the portion that they go through the exhaust manifold is threaded and then finished off with 2 nuts for added strength and security. Id like to know how to untgread the bolts from the exhaust manifold without snapping them, the 3rd bolt isn't an issue

 

[AJ/FormS]

Yeah that's right two bolts and a long stud, and the two manifolds have to come off together. Then you flip it over and hope for the best. Well I think those two bolts thread into the intake, which you won't be reusing anyway. The long stud goes thru a tunnel in the exhaust manifold, with a nut on the bottom. I think there was plenty of room in the tunnel on mine, so that guy should not be an issue.
So If I thought those bolts were seized, I think I would grind off the heads, and separate the manifolds. This would leave all the fasteners in the intake, and you can worry about them some other day. Then replace them with new for the present assembly. I think that is what I would do.
If you go ahead and try to muscle them off, and then they snap? Then they will snap tight close to the casting surface,making them very difficult to dig out. By cutting the heads off, you have a shank left to grab onto. Then just use an acetylene torch to relax the manifold and spin them out with a locking pliers.I think that would work

 

[AJ/FormS]

Oh Well if the go down from the top, If I hear you right; you are saying that they screw into the exhaust manifold casting, and the nuts are just there to keep the bolt from self-loosening.
Or are you saying that the bolts are thru-bolts and that there are two nuts on each bolt acting as jam-nuts.
And I guess by now the nuts have all been removed?
The point I am working towards is that the acetylene torch is very good at getting these types of things apart,when and if you can put the heat where it needs to be.
So if the bolts are actually threaded into the cast-iron,and you cannot put heat on the bolts, then this is a problem: cuz I doubt that you can get the cast-iron hot enough to let go of the bolts. The heat should go into the bolt threads, heating them very quickly to red hot. This will cause them to grow faster than their surroundings and expand out of them. Then you let everything cool to room temp. At this time the bolts will shrink and pull away from the cast iron. A bit of penetrant and away you go. These bolts will now be non-reuseable. They are too soft and the threaded area too small to retain nuts.

 

[Rifleshooter]

Oh Well if the go down from the top, If I hear you right; you are saying that they screw into the exhaust manifold casting, and the nuts are just there to keep the bolt from self-loosening.
Or are you saying that the bolts are thru-bolts and that there are two nuts on each bolt acting as jam-nuts.
And I guess by now the nuts have all been removed?
The point I am working towards is that the acetylene torch is very good at getting these types of things apart,when and if you can put the heat where it needs to be.
So if the bolts are actually threaded into the cast-iron,and you cannot put heat on the bolts, then this is a problem: cuz I doubt that you can get the cast-iron hot enough to let go of the bolts. The heat should go into the bolt threads, heating them very quickly to red hot. This will cause them to grow faster than their surroundings and expand out of them. Then you let everything cool to room temp. At this time the bolts will shrink and pull away from the cast iron. A bit of penetrant and away you go. These bolts will now be non-reuseable. They are too soft and the threaded area too small to retain nuts.

Ok thank you very much for the help AJ, do you think I'd be able to do the same with a handheld butane torch instead of a big and bulky acetylene torch?

 

[BudW]

It has been so long, I don’t remember.

Lots of penetrating oil and heat.

Generally it is best to not detach the intake from exhaust unless you “have to”.

 

[Rifleshooter]

It has been so long, I don’t remember.

Lots of penetrating oil and heat.

Generally it is best to not detach the intake from exhaust unless you “have to”.

As much as I hate to say it, I do in fact have to detach it. Sucks beyond all belief but it's the cold hard truth

 

[Rifleshooter]

So for future reference, eventually I intend on changing the exhaust on my car and I want it to sound more like a v8 with a deep roar kind of sound, any tips or pointers?

 

[BudW]

I’m not a /6 expert (never owned one, but have worked on quite a few of them . . . decades ago).

That said, I “think” the trick to

sound more like a v8 with a deep roar

is to use split headers (two sides of 3 pipes) with duel exhaust.

A quick note: cold drivability and warmup will be effected running headers, sense intake is warmed via exhaust manifold.

Fuel injection would fix that problem – but “fuel injection” doesn’t lend itself very easily to the /6 (ie: definitely not a direct bolt on affair).
BudW

 

[AJ/FormS]

So for future reference, eventually I intend on changing the exhaust on my car and I want it to sound more like a v8 with a deep roar kind of sound, any tips or pointers?

I wonder if that is possible;
On a SBM, the firing pulses on each bank are; left,right-right,left,right, left-left,right. and so on. So at idle what you might get, is bup..... bup-bup......bup.....bup..... bup-bup.....bup.....and so on,which your brain will turn into; bup-bup ......bup.....bup.....
On the six, splitting the front three into one pipe, and the back three into another, the pulses would be; L-R-L-R-L-R and so on.So here you get ; bup-bup-bup-bup-bup-bup and so on.
So you can't get the "sound".
As to volume, well each 225cylinder is only 28 cubic inches, compared to a teener being about 40.
The slanty is listed as being able to achieve 125psi cylinder pressure, to the teeners 140.
The upshot of that information is that the slanty can't possibly put out the same volume of air anywhere in the rpm band, at any equal rpm to the teener, under any equal load setting.
But, all is not lost. You can still make a slanty loud, that's pretty easy.It just won't sound like anything but a loud slanty.
But I suppose with the right muffler, you could chop off the high-frequency "noise", leaving some "deep"ness. And the right exhaust tip might shape it into a roar. A deep, slanty, roar.
I never used to like that sound. But these days the world is full of V6s, and I have come to be used to it. And they certainly sound better than 4s.
I think I have put 3 different mufflers on my 1980 Volare since 1994. I didn't care for a one of them,lol. Oh well.....Every one of them did sound better than the rotted-out one it replaced.
Good luck in your quest!

Hey, going with Bud's idea of splitting the manifold, I wonder how it would sound with T/A mufflers, dumping out in front of the rear tires?The sound would then be;
bup.....bup.....bup.....bup.....bup....bup.....bup.....on the one side,and
.....bup.....bup.....bup.....bup.....bup.....bup.....bup.....on the other.
lol. Idle that baby down to just above a stall, and it would certainly be distinctive!

 

[Justwondering]

AJ you are henceforth known as The King of Bup!
Lol

 

[kkritsilas]

....

Fuel injection would fix that problem – but “fuel injection” doesn’t lend itself very easily to the /6 (ie: definitely not a direct bolt on affair).
BudW

Third party fuel injection units do allow for 4, 6 or 8 cylinder cars. In my instance, it was a F.A.S,T, EZ-EFI. The only stumbling block would be that an intake with a 4 barrel carb flange (or some sort of adapter) would be needed, along with a proper (higher pressure) fuel pump. The programmer would go as small as a 1 liter (61 cubic inch) 4 cylinder, and as high as a big block. Limitation was horsepower level, it couldn't flow enough for anything with more than 600 HP.

 

[BudW]

With all of the 4-bbl appearing F.I. Setups out there and the success they appear to be having – how much harder would it be to make a simple 2-bbl F.I. appearing (or 1-bbl) setup that bolt right in place (ie: no 4-bbl adapter needed).

After all, how many /6's could run even a small 4-bbl with out running out of breath?

 

[kkritsilas]

All of the third party throttle body type fuel injection units are intended for a 4 barrel flange. I don't know if all third party fuel injection systems use 4 fuel injectors, but most do. They are, after all, chasing after the muscle car market, which was mostly 4 barrel carbs, and they are looking to replace those carbs. I know that some of the factory throttle bodies were smaller, some looking to be a lot closer to the 2 barrel size, but they are not as flexible, and you would need to find a way to set up the fuel injection mapping on them. I don't know of any third party F.I. units that use a 2 barrel flange in North America. Might be some in Europe or Japan.

 

[AJ/FormS]

With all of the 4-bbl appearing F.I. Setups out there and the success they appear to be having – how much harder would it be to make a simple 2-bbl F.I. appearing (or 1-bbl) setup that bolt right in place (ie: no 4-bbl adapter needed).

After all, how many /6's could run even a small 4-bbl with out running out of breath?

Yeah I agree; how much harder could it be.

 

[BudW]

Yeah I agree; how much harder could it be.

I would purchase two setups to replace the BBD’s on both of my 318’s, right now – if someone had a bolt on system ready.

I can understand porting to a popular 4-bbl performance market, but I would think using that technology, they can make a bolt on system for the already large 2-bbl and 1-bbl market out there.

I’d think someone would make a killing with them (an affordable 2-bbl (or 1-bbl) bolt in place non-performance F.I. setup) – but what do I know (just because I want one, he he).

Now with that said, I do have plans on obtaining one of the performance 4-bbl appearing F.I. setups soon, so I can get it working, before the big block drops in – but that is not what I want right now.
BudW

 

[AJ/FormS]

Ima thinking 4 little deuces on four twined IRs.
Would that look cool or what?
I guess I'd hafta install a slushbox
Or maybe 3 deuces on a 6bbl,staged progressive, then I could keep my manual,yeah I could dig that!

 

[shadango]

Ok well if you notice, that air filter house, if it has the heat stove hooked up, also has a Therm-actor flapper valve on it. And it has an air sampler in the box too. The engineering behind all those pieces is to mix the hot air that is coming across the hot exhaust manifold, with the fresh cold air coming up that paper tube, and deliver air to that carb that is of a constant temperature. And the thinking behind that is to better control the Air Fuel Ratio.
Of course almost right after start-up this warmed up air helps to eliminate carburetor icing. And icing is a particularly annoying thing to experience.

Any chance you know of a good replacement unit for that flapper dealio? The vac diaphragm in our flapper is shot.....