clicking and stalling on a 1988 Gran Fury.
- Thread starter SonOfaTomP
- Start date
SonOfaTomP
Well-Known Member
does it matter if the hose is attached to that first one? when i got the car the hose was off of it so i put it back on. the bracket that kept the two together was broken
Elwood P Dowd
Active Member
On mine the other side just had a foam filter that crumbled when I touched it. I'm not sure what the difference is between the sides but if I were you I would swap sides just to see what happens
SonOfaTomP
Well-Known Member
maybe i'll do that. i'm just careful about messing my car up more than i need to.
Elwood P Dowd
Active Member
Well its not going to hurt it and it's a simple swap back if it makes anything worse
SonOfaTomP
Well-Known Member
true.
That's the vac routing for 88-89 318 2bbl. Looks like those 2 mystery solenoids are in the upper left. EGR (connected to the carb) and an Air Pump switch (connected to the air pump up front).
I'm still hunting in the book for the mystery relay on the firewall.
IF that relay next to the voltage regulator is a later relocated "Dual pickup Start/Run Relay"...
If that were shorting OR it was being tickled by a shorting Starter Relay it would be flipping into "start" timing when it should just be sitting in "run" mode.
The fun part (meaning the very NOT fun part) would be finding out why your starter relay is active in run mode. That kinda gremlin could go all the way back to your ignition switch in the steering column. BUT you mentioned wire wiggling having an effect out at the Dual Pickup Relay so I'd start over there cleaning up connectors and wiring.
If that were shorting OR it was being tickled by a shorting Starter Relay it would be flipping into "start" timing when it should just be sitting in "run" mode.
The fun part (meaning the very NOT fun part) would be finding out why your starter relay is active in run mode. That kinda gremlin could go all the way back to your ignition switch in the steering column. BUT you mentioned wire wiggling having an effect out at the Dual Pickup Relay so I'd start over there cleaning up connectors and wiring.
SonOfaTomP
Well-Known Member
i think i kind of follow where you're coming from
SonOfaTomP
Well-Known Member
its definitely coming from this box
Because nobody with first hand knowledge is stepping in... Can you get me a picture of the details printed on the side of that thing? Maybe carefully unscrew it from the wall and take some up close shots? I can do more research from there.
And in case you wondered what was inside...
And in case you wondered what was inside...
Found this diagram from a 87 Dodge truck with what I assume is the same Dual Pickup Relay setup as you. It shows the relay as normally resting on the RUN circuit. A short to ground would NOT result in it being energized to the START circuit. Which means you problem is likely back at one of the parts allowed to energize that dual pickup relay (ignition switch, starter relay, or the wiring associated with them) and NOT in that little clicking box itself.
Congratz, you have an electrical gremlin to hunt. Could be hard to find but normally easy to fix.
Congratz, you have an electrical gremlin to hunt. Could be hard to find but normally easy to fix.
NOTE: It think there is a temporary bandaid you could use in the mean time. Because the RUN side of your dual pickup distributor looks to be always powered (through that diode shown in the relay between relay terminals 1 and 3) you could probably just disconnect the START coil at the distributor and effectively turn your car into an older single pickup distributor. It may start harder without the timing adjustment during cranking but I think it should still work.
Notice how the START and RUN wires coming out of your distributor have different shaped connectors? Disconnect the fatter one with the 2 male pins in it and see if your car still starts. Tape it up so it doesn't get damaged. That will make it so the clicking relay can't affect your distributor.
Notice how the START and RUN wires coming out of your distributor have different shaped connectors? Disconnect the fatter one with the 2 male pins in it and see if your car still starts. Tape it up so it doesn't get damaged. That will make it so the clicking relay can't affect your distributor.
SonOfaTomP
Well-Known Member
i'll see what she does. thanks!
For FMJ bodies – most 2-bbl cars with a computer have a single distributor pickup. Most of the 4-bbl cars with a computer use two distributor pickups (one for starting) which the computer picks which one to use.
Also, some cars had an A/C relay that disengaged the compressor when engine was under a load, but I only saw those on underpowered cars (low-end front wheel drives) or on police cars.
It appears the part number is 5233615 (maybe) and it is a Chrysler relay.
Below that is the vender code (who made part for Chrysler). Below that is the date code which appears to be “147” (maybe). That would be the 14th week of a year that ends with “7” (1987, 1997, 2007, 2017).
I looked in my ’87 parts manual and the closest thing to the above part number was 5233164 which is a fuel pump relay for S-body (minivan).
Then I investigated my ’88 and ’89 parts manuals and still nothing with that part number.
I do remember Chrysler came out with a TSB on vapor lock concerns, which added an in-tank electric fuel pump – but the relay (module) was up under the dash.
I’m thinking someone applied a TSB for a different car line (front wheel drive) that was retrofitted to your car, maybe.
BudW
Also, some cars had an A/C relay that disengaged the compressor when engine was under a load, but I only saw those on underpowered cars (low-end front wheel drives) or on police cars.
It appears the part number is 5233615 (maybe) and it is a Chrysler relay.
Below that is the vender code (who made part for Chrysler). Below that is the date code which appears to be “147” (maybe). That would be the 14th week of a year that ends with “7” (1987, 1997, 2007, 2017).
I looked in my ’87 parts manual and the closest thing to the above part number was 5233164 which is a fuel pump relay for S-body (minivan).
Then I investigated my ’88 and ’89 parts manuals and still nothing with that part number.
I do remember Chrysler came out with a TSB on vapor lock concerns, which added an in-tank electric fuel pump – but the relay (module) was up under the dash.
I’m thinking someone applied a TSB for a different car line (front wheel drive) that was retrofitted to your car, maybe.
BudW
SonOfaTomP
Well-Known Member
i appreciate you doing so much research for me! car has been good lately so i'm just gonna live with it for now but this is definitely good information for me to keep in mind. thanks!
SonOfaTomP
Well-Known Member
just one extra thing about the car. you guys ever go out to the car and the thing is locked in park and you have to really pull the shifter to get her in gear? only happens when shes been sitting for a while. get her in gear and she shifts fine. i hope my tranny isn't going up!
Elwood P Dowd
Active Member
I have that same thing when I park on a incline. I just figured it was slop in the shifter linkage but I could be wrong about that.
This is a couple of pictures I found on internet and seam to describe things well. The shifter attaches via linkage to a lever on drivers side of transmission, just under the kickdown lever attaches. When vehicle is in park, the rod (red arrow) moves towards the tailhousing.
In the tailhousing, there is a spring-loaded pawl that is pushed into a gear splined onto the output shaft with castle style cuts into it. The (red arrow) rod goes into cavity (green arrow - which has a screwdriver inserted), pushing the pawl inwards (gold arrow direction).
The park pawl has a pivot (pink arrow) to give it some strength. When engaged in park, that pawl and gear "engagement" is what keeps car from moving. When car is taken out of park, the spring pushes the pawl out of the way.
The white circle has a spring that helps the park pawl to engage until it finds a slot in gear. If you have ever put a car in park when car is still in motion, what you year is the pawl trying to fit into the hole and the spring (white circle) that is allowing it some “give”.
Now with pictures and explanation out of the say, those gears and pawls are not always machined well (burrs, etc.) and the two items can stick – especially when parking on an incline. The park rod spring only works when going into park. The gear/pawl contact (burrs from machining) is what makes it hard to get out of park. I recommend for customers with that condition is to place parking brake on first, then place into park before turning car off. When starting, place car out of park before releasing the park brake. Over time, the two items will work smoothly, but sometimes it takes a while.
Placing car into park before coming to a complete stop can make the condition worse.
Note: the governor bolts onto the “other” side of the gear. You can see 3 (of 4) attaching bolts on the gear.
BudW
In the tailhousing, there is a spring-loaded pawl that is pushed into a gear splined onto the output shaft with castle style cuts into it. The (red arrow) rod goes into cavity (green arrow - which has a screwdriver inserted), pushing the pawl inwards (gold arrow direction).
The park pawl has a pivot (pink arrow) to give it some strength. When engaged in park, that pawl and gear "engagement" is what keeps car from moving. When car is taken out of park, the spring pushes the pawl out of the way.
The white circle has a spring that helps the park pawl to engage until it finds a slot in gear. If you have ever put a car in park when car is still in motion, what you year is the pawl trying to fit into the hole and the spring (white circle) that is allowing it some “give”.
Now with pictures and explanation out of the say, those gears and pawls are not always machined well (burrs, etc.) and the two items can stick – especially when parking on an incline. The park rod spring only works when going into park. The gear/pawl contact (burrs from machining) is what makes it hard to get out of park. I recommend for customers with that condition is to place parking brake on first, then place into park before turning car off. When starting, place car out of park before releasing the park brake. Over time, the two items will work smoothly, but sometimes it takes a while.
Placing car into park before coming to a complete stop can make the condition worse.
Note: the governor bolts onto the “other” side of the gear. You can see 3 (of 4) attaching bolts on the gear.
BudW
SonOfaTomP
Well-Known Member
as i'm younger i have a problem with forgetting that the parking brake is on but if that helps me with the shifting problem i guess i'm about to learn today! my area (central MD) is indeed quite hilly so that solves that.
